Trying to buy a second hand car.....

[strippier]

Ok not bought a car for 5 years.

Looking to buy a PHEV (BMW, MB), so limited to 330e or c350e.

I like a bargain or at least not to get get royally shafted.

I find a car I like, all from main stealers, is there no private £15-£20k market anymore? I check the spec and then type the reg into WBAC....... and see the price difference is £4K plus.

I accept the dealer has to make money etc, but £4K...... I ask for discount and get a load of spiel from the dealer and in the end knock a few hundred off.

Do I need my perspective filter changing or is this normal now?

(My last car I bought from main dealer at £1.5k over WBAC).

Help....

[V8 Bob]

Looking myself at the moment and finding the same £22k selling price and circa £16k wba. Presume it is the 6 months full warranty they have to provide these days along with the ivory towers they invariably operate from, sales commissions and a profit even if it all goes wrong.

[Alucidnation]

Car dealer wanting to make profit shocker.

[ashleyman]

I'm also looking, asking for PCP quotes just to get an idea of future values and most aren't budging on price but can negotiate on the APR rates. The most I was offered on a cash sale was GuardX on a used vehicle!

[POORCARDEALER]

WBAC are not the holy grail of car valuation....they are buying in order to make a hefty profit in auction

[strippier]

Alucidnation said:

Car dealer wanting to make profit shocker.

Understand that, just seems too much (imho).

[Deep Thought]

strippier said:

Ok not bought a car for 5 years.

Looking to buy a PHEV (BMW, MB), so limited to 330e or c350e.

I like a bargain or at least not to get get royally shafted.

I find a car I like, all from main stealers, is there no private £15-£20k market anymore? I check the spec and then type the reg into WBAC....... and see the price difference is £4K plus.

I accept the dealer has to make money etc, but £4K...... I ask for discount and get a load of spiel from the dealer and in the end knock a few hundred off.

Do I need my perspective filter changing or is this normal now?

(My last car I bought from main dealer at £1.5k over WBAC).

Help....

The problem is theres at least two trade sources have to get profit out of the difference between the WBAC valuation and the retail price - WBAC themselves (i suspect they'd like to see £500-1,000 gross out of that deal) and then the end dealer. On top of that, you're expecting discount too so that £4,000 spread becomes £500 for WBAC, £3,000 gross to the dealer (not unreasonable given their costs) and then £500 discount for you.

[ninjag]

I was under the impression that these days there's very little margin in used car sales and the bulk of their profit comes from the parts and service centre?

[Wooda80]

strippier said:

Alucidnation said:

Car dealer wanting to make profit shocker.

Understand that, just seems too much (imho).

What business do you work in Strippier, and what are your gross margins by way of comparison?

[andyalan10]

In the past I successfully sold a car to a dealer as a cash sale having already bought elsewhere, and he made what seemed the perfectly reasonable point that by buying direct he saved auction fees and presumably either his time and fuel or delivery costs on the car.

Much more recently I wanted to sell car quickly prior to a house move. WBAC price £3100, best a specialist local trader would offer was £3200. Ended up selling to a more distant trader for £3250. Two months on and the car is still sitting on Autotrader at £5000. If it sells for anything near that, I would say it is a huge margin, and of course the website offers £500 down and £100/month for 60 months.

So on a sample of one, dealers seem to be only willing to offer a few tens of pounds over the WBAC price even though they stand to save several hundred and seem to be willing to price high and wait even at this time of year. I wonder if it is connected to the much higher lease/PCP prices being reported here on new cars?

Andy

[ZX10R NIN]

WBAC prices are well off so don't take them as a true benchmark of prices, yes most main dealers have a 3-4k margin worked into most used stock but they have bigger overheads for starters so yes they'll make a bigger profit on paper the reality is they make around £2500 once you take the overheads off.

Does it have to be a plug in Hybrid because there are a few decent Hybrids for your price point:

Infiniti Q50 3.5h

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

AWD S

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Ampera

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

GS450h

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

A6 h

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

5 Series M Sport Hybrid

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[strippier]

Definitely after a plug in , as my commute is low mileage and could all be done on electric.

Maybe its the lack of second hand market at the price point?

Might just stick with my current daily drive as not sure I can be bothered with the test pilots wanting a thrill ride....

[ZX10R NIN]

Then I'd say stick with what you have as the plug in MB/BMW's haven't reached your price point yet.

[Phil Dicky]

Wooda80 said:

strippier said:

Alucidnation said:

Car dealer wanting to make profit shocker.

Understand that, just seems too much (imho).

What business do you work in Strippier, and what are your gross margins by way of comparison?

I never get this point, its as though everything else in life people are happy for the supplier to make money. However come car buying time there is uproar.

[HTP99]

WBAC is a crap way to try and figure out what a car is worth in the trade, all it does is give an indication of what WBAC may pay for it and if its a car that doesn't fit their usual requirements of easy to move on for a quick profit, they will bid low as they don't really want it but hey ho if they do buy it for that amount they are covering themselves for it to be potentially hard to shift on.

If everything else out there of a similar spec, mileage, age etc is of a similar price then that is the correct price for the car, it is irrelevant what they dealer paid for it.

The dealer will have to service it, sort any scuffs and scrapes, warranty it, pay for overheads and staff, the car may be traditionally hard to move on so they will want to build in a decent margin for any potential future book drops when they still have it 3 months later.

[Deep Thought]

ninjag said:

I was under the impression that these days there's very little margin in used car sales and the bulk of their profit comes from the parts and service centre?

Theres very little net margin.

[Deep Thought]

andyalan10 said:

So on a sample of one, dealers seem to be only willing to offer a few tens of pounds over the WBAC price even though they stand to save several hundred and seem to be willing to price high and wait even at this time of year. I wonder if it is connected to the much higher lease/PCP prices being reported here on new cars?

They're probably offering several hundred above WBAC's price because WBAC will invariably knock you back £££'s when they get you there.

Yes, at this time of the year a dealer will sit it out with the stock he has knowing in Jan / Feb the market picks up.

`There is a common misconception - and i'm not saying you are of that opinion - that dealers must sell at "any" price. This is not the case - good quality cars at the right trade price are very hard to find, so they will hold on for the right deal (and sometimes the right customer) rather than give it away.

[Deep Thought]

ZX10R NIN said:

WBAC prices are well off so don't take them as a true benchmark of prices, yes most main dealers have a 3-4k margin worked into most used stock but they have bigger overheads for starters so yes they'll make a bigger profit on paper the reality is they make around £2500 once you take the overheads off.

I think once you take overheads off, most dealers are working on an awful lot less than £2,500 net profit on a car retailing at say, £20K. I'd say net profit would be below £1,000 per unit on average.