How to improve this dent.
Discussion
Someone's reversed into my daughter's car while it was parked 
I need to replace the headlight (sourced) and I want to push the wing out. It looks fairly simple as access from behind should be possible, what technique would you employ for best results. I want to avoid paint if possible. It needs to be OK not perfect as it's a 'first car'.
I've not seen it in the flesh yet but I think if I just push it from behind with the headlight out it'll pop and leave two small dents.
I need to replace the headlight (sourced) and I want to push the wing out. It looks fairly simple as access from behind should be possible, what technique would you employ for best results. I want to avoid paint if possible. It needs to be OK not perfect as it's a 'first car'.
I've not seen it in the flesh yet but I think if I just push it from behind with the headlight out it'll pop and leave two small dents.
WinstonWolf said:
Someone's reversed into my daughter's car while it was parked
I need to replace the headlight (sourced) and I want to push the wing out. It looks fairly simple as access from behind should be possible, what technique would you employ for best results. I want to avoid paint if possible. It needs to be OK not perfect as it's a 'first car'.
I've not seen it in the flesh yet but I think if I just push it from behind with the headlight out it'll pop and leave two small dents.
Not worth arsing around with and making a mess of when dent guys are so cheap.I need to replace the headlight (sourced) and I want to push the wing out. It looks fairly simple as access from behind should be possible, what technique would you employ for best results. I want to avoid paint if possible. It needs to be OK not perfect as it's a 'first car'.
I've not seen it in the flesh yet but I think if I just push it from behind with the headlight out it'll pop and leave two small dents.
I'm time served, I made a pot from flat sheet steel when I was an apprentice 
Unfortunately I don't have access to the panel beating equipment I had back then...
I was thinking if I can get a toffee hammer and a bit of flat nylon bar in the headlight opening it'll be 'simple'.
Besides, the cost will end up coming out of dad's pocket...
Unfortunately I don't have access to the panel beating equipment I had back then...I was thinking if I can get a toffee hammer and a bit of flat nylon bar in the headlight opening it'll be 'simple'.
Besides, the cost will end up coming out of dad's pocket...
WinstonWolf said:
I'm time served, I made a pot from flat sheet steel when I was an apprentice Unfortunately I don't have access to the panel beating equipment I had back then...
I was thinking if I can get a toffee hammer and a bit of flat nylon bar in the headlight opening it'll be 'simple'.
Besides, the cost will end up coming out of dad's pocket...
Then I don't know why you're asking on here then. Pushing dents out successfully is far from simple, it's an exceptionally skilled job. Although that probably won't come out perfect for £40 to do a whole cars worth it just isn't worth dicking around. Unfortunately I don't have access to the panel beating equipment I had back then...I was thinking if I can get a toffee hammer and a bit of flat nylon bar in the headlight opening it'll be 'simple'.
Besides, the cost will end up coming out of dad's pocket...
227bhp said:
WinstonWolf said:
I'm time served, I made a pot from flat sheet steel when I was an apprentice Unfortunately I don't have access to the panel beating equipment I had back then...
I was thinking if I can get a toffee hammer and a bit of flat nylon bar in the headlight opening it'll be 'simple'.
Besides, the cost will end up coming out of dad's pocket...
Then I don't know why you're asking on here then. Pushing dents out successfully is far from simple, it's an exceptionally skilled job. Although that probably won't come out perfect for £40 to do a whole cars worth it just isn't worth dicking around. Unfortunately I don't have access to the panel beating equipment I had back then...I was thinking if I can get a toffee hammer and a bit of flat nylon bar in the headlight opening it'll be 'simple'.
Besides, the cost will end up coming out of dad's pocket...
I've got to take the wheels and front arch liners off anyway to drop the bumper so I can replace the headlight, I want to achieve the best result I can for a rusty former precision fitter
Before I start, this is not my first post by a long chalk, it is as this user though. I have been a member here for many years and done repairs for other members but my sign in email has recently defunct so I have had to re-register as a new a new user.
'It looks fairly simple as access from behind should be possible, what technique would you employ for best results. I want to avoid paint if possible. It needs to be OK not perfect as it's a 'first car'.
I've not seen it in the flesh yet but I think if I just push it from behind with the headlight out it'll pop and leave two small dents.'
s
tty that someone has done this a driven off, but, as you ask for advice on the repair...
It will not 'just pop out'. Believe me, it is quite a complex dent and a complex repair.
The wing though is repairable via a good PDR tech to a high standard, however, I doubt anyone worth their salt would do it for £40 no matter where you live.
If you are confident that you can improve it then why not have a go. Fabricating is a massive skill to have and a replacement wing on fleabay would solve the prob if it goes wrong. As a PDR tech though these are the techniques I advise you employ for the best results.
Going in the headlight is one route though a lever block would be required and either a dent dial tool or something like a 30" double bend bar with switchable tip set to generate the force needed to start the dent moving. Up under the wheel arch would be a better route as you can lever off the tyre with a combo of a Transformer Flat bar, a 24" DB bar, and or even a Doda Bar, just either peel back the plastic arch liner or remove it altogether. Leave the bumper on for now as the wing will be located to it and it will serve as fixing point, if not fixed the front end of the wing will just flex around and not actually lift the dent.
50% of the repair will be done from the outside of the panel but care taken to not cause further damage / dents or paint damage, so get your self some tap downs and blending hammers as you will need to break the crowns of the dent out before trying to lift as the highs lock in the low areas and you will only end up making other dents the stick out, or 'highs' as we call them. Also a heat source will be handy to warm the panel and give the paint some flex. A reflection source in the form of a line board on a lock line or strip light will help you locate the tip of the tool accurately so you know you are pushing in the right place and to gauge the progress of the repair. One or 2 pushes will not fix this (as I am sure you are aware), you will need to make many many small pushes, 100's probably, and starting in the right place (successful dent repair relies on knowing where to start and where to finish) in order to get things moving in the right way.
You could also team up the pushing with glue pulling, much of the dent will lift with this method (though I would practice on a scrap panel first as you can really easily mess a panel up or pull paint off if you do it wrong). For this a good cold weather PDR glue, a slide hammer (2kg) assorted tabs, a mini lifter and some release agent (IPA will do), this will enable you to adjust the force and area pulled correctly so as to lift just the bits you need. Too strong a lift and the tap down will be needed to blend the high back in, but don't tap too hard as you will make more small dents that will bruise the metallic and need a lot of detailing out at a later stage with a fine tip tool.
In extreme cases where I do 'push to paint' repairs (things like quarter panels that need paint but the dent is repairable without having to cut the panel out of stuff it with filler) a dolly and hammer set can be employed but any paint left rarely survives this method and the finish will always need skimming and painting.
I would start by breaking the crowns out then get to the centre of the swage and test the strength of the lock, if the crowns are out sufficiently then the lock point should break out and get things started. a couple more bars with bladed tips will help get down to the front edge and once the bulk of the dent is out you could pick out the smaller dents one at a time going back to the double bend or dent dial tool.
You could get a practice panel from the scrappy that you can dent and repair but as the wing is already dented quite badly... A practice panel will help you to learn tool positioning and pushing power / lifting power etc before hitting the actual job. I started out practicing on small thumb nail sized dents for a up to 8 hrs a day, then increased the sizes and complexities, but every dent is different so it's always a learning process. I didn't touch a customers car for 6mths and then only small easy stuff. Tools as detailed will hit you for around £2 - £2.5k but will get you started.
I am not a fabricator, and couldn't make something from scratch out of metal. I am a PDR tech though and repair horrible looking dents without the need to paint. My tool kit runs into the £10k's to allow me to tackle a different challenge each day and one tool per dent is rarely the case. Fabricating, panel beating, PDR are very different skill sets bud, My ultimate advice would be get a decent PDR tech on it, you won;t be disappointed. ;-)
'It looks fairly simple as access from behind should be possible, what technique would you employ for best results. I want to avoid paint if possible. It needs to be OK not perfect as it's a 'first car'.
I've not seen it in the flesh yet but I think if I just push it from behind with the headlight out it'll pop and leave two small dents.'
s
tty that someone has done this a driven off, but, as you ask for advice on the repair...It will not 'just pop out'. Believe me, it is quite a complex dent and a complex repair.
The wing though is repairable via a good PDR tech to a high standard, however, I doubt anyone worth their salt would do it for £40 no matter where you live.
If you are confident that you can improve it then why not have a go. Fabricating is a massive skill to have and a replacement wing on fleabay would solve the prob if it goes wrong. As a PDR tech though these are the techniques I advise you employ for the best results.
Going in the headlight is one route though a lever block would be required and either a dent dial tool or something like a 30" double bend bar with switchable tip set to generate the force needed to start the dent moving. Up under the wheel arch would be a better route as you can lever off the tyre with a combo of a Transformer Flat bar, a 24" DB bar, and or even a Doda Bar, just either peel back the plastic arch liner or remove it altogether. Leave the bumper on for now as the wing will be located to it and it will serve as fixing point, if not fixed the front end of the wing will just flex around and not actually lift the dent.
50% of the repair will be done from the outside of the panel but care taken to not cause further damage / dents or paint damage, so get your self some tap downs and blending hammers as you will need to break the crowns of the dent out before trying to lift as the highs lock in the low areas and you will only end up making other dents the stick out, or 'highs' as we call them. Also a heat source will be handy to warm the panel and give the paint some flex. A reflection source in the form of a line board on a lock line or strip light will help you locate the tip of the tool accurately so you know you are pushing in the right place and to gauge the progress of the repair. One or 2 pushes will not fix this (as I am sure you are aware), you will need to make many many small pushes, 100's probably, and starting in the right place (successful dent repair relies on knowing where to start and where to finish) in order to get things moving in the right way.
You could also team up the pushing with glue pulling, much of the dent will lift with this method (though I would practice on a scrap panel first as you can really easily mess a panel up or pull paint off if you do it wrong). For this a good cold weather PDR glue, a slide hammer (2kg) assorted tabs, a mini lifter and some release agent (IPA will do), this will enable you to adjust the force and area pulled correctly so as to lift just the bits you need. Too strong a lift and the tap down will be needed to blend the high back in, but don't tap too hard as you will make more small dents that will bruise the metallic and need a lot of detailing out at a later stage with a fine tip tool.
In extreme cases where I do 'push to paint' repairs (things like quarter panels that need paint but the dent is repairable without having to cut the panel out of stuff it with filler) a dolly and hammer set can be employed but any paint left rarely survives this method and the finish will always need skimming and painting.
I would start by breaking the crowns out then get to the centre of the swage and test the strength of the lock, if the crowns are out sufficiently then the lock point should break out and get things started. a couple more bars with bladed tips will help get down to the front edge and once the bulk of the dent is out you could pick out the smaller dents one at a time going back to the double bend or dent dial tool.
You could get a practice panel from the scrappy that you can dent and repair but as the wing is already dented quite badly... A practice panel will help you to learn tool positioning and pushing power / lifting power etc before hitting the actual job. I started out practicing on small thumb nail sized dents for a up to 8 hrs a day, then increased the sizes and complexities, but every dent is different so it's always a learning process. I didn't touch a customers car for 6mths and then only small easy stuff. Tools as detailed will hit you for around £2 - £2.5k but will get you started.
I am not a fabricator, and couldn't make something from scratch out of metal. I am a PDR tech though and repair horrible looking dents without the need to paint. My tool kit runs into the £10k's to allow me to tackle a different challenge each day and one tool per dent is rarely the case. Fabricating, panel beating, PDR are very different skill sets bud, My ultimate advice would be get a decent PDR tech on it, you won;t be disappointed. ;-)
Edited by Adamski1069 on Monday 3rd December 10:41
Thanks for taking the time to reply, I've noted all your points
I've got to take the liner off as the bumper has to be dropped at some point to replace the headlight (which I've got).
I'm going to have a go when the weather's nice so I can take my time, I'll either get it to an 'acceptable' standard or buy a replacement for about £40 from Ebay if it doesn't come out as well as I'd hoped
I've got to take the liner off as the bumper has to be dropped at some point to replace the headlight (which I've got).
I'm going to have a go when the weather's nice so I can take my time, I'll either get it to an 'acceptable' standard or buy a replacement for about £40 from Ebay if it doesn't come out as well as I'd hoped
Welcome bud. I hear your point also that it is a first car and only a acceptable standard is what your after. I had some great results early on and some proper howlers when learning. LOL!
Edited by Adamski1069 on Monday 3rd December 11:17
Edited by Adamski1069 on Monday 3rd December 11:18
Adamski1069 said:
Welcome bud. I hear your point also that it is a first car and only a acceptable standard is what your after. I had some great results early on and some proper howlers when learning. :-)
A few decent purpose made tools will make it much easier to tackle.
I pulled a Renault 18 straight using a Talbot Horizon as a slide hammer many years ago, it was surprisingly effective A few decent purpose made tools will make it much easier to tackle.
LOL!!!
I commend your determination to having a go at the repair. As you say, take your time, also have a plan as to getting the dent started, don't go straight to the middle and push, release the tension around the dent buy breaking down the crowns. A few decent purpose made tools will make it much easier to tackle and do a bit of research on the crowns as they will be key to getting the dent moving. :-)
I commend your determination to having a go at the repair. As you say, take your time, also have a plan as to getting the dent started, don't go straight to the middle and push, release the tension around the dent buy breaking down the crowns. A few decent purpose made tools will make it much easier to tackle and do a bit of research on the crowns as they will be key to getting the dent moving. :-)
Adamski1069 said:
LOL!!!
I commend your determination to having a go at the repair. As you say, take your time, also have a plan as to getting the dent started, don't go straight to the middle and push, release the tension around the dent buy breaking down the crowns. A few decent purpose made tools will make it much easier to tackle and do a bit of research on the crowns as they will be key to getting the dent moving. :-)
Thank you again, I'm off to research crowns now while it's raining!I commend your determination to having a go at the repair. As you say, take your time, also have a plan as to getting the dent started, don't go straight to the middle and push, release the tension around the dent buy breaking down the crowns. A few decent purpose made tools will make it much easier to tackle and do a bit of research on the crowns as they will be key to getting the dent moving. :-)
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