E-Cigarettes, what does the law say?

[RobbyJ]

Just curious as the stations I commute in on every day have signs up along the lines of “Smoking anywhere on the station including uncovered areas is illegal, this includes to use of e-cigarettes “.

How would this be enforced, are there any test cases. It’s obviously not actually smoking, how do they define an e-cigarette and that a law has been broken? If the argument centres around nicotine then some people vape with nicotine free liquid, would that be OK?

Just curious to understand if it’s really enforceable and how?

[anonymous-user]

The reason I was given by a pub landlord was that it is difficult from a distance to tell if someone is smoking or vaping, so it was easier to ban both.

[RobbyJ]

Grahamdub said:

The reason I was given by a pub landlord was that it is difficult from a distance to tell if someone is smoking or vaping, so it was easier to ban both.

Yes and I very much get the arguments, someone puffing massive clouds of vapour that could be perceived by most as smoke on an airplane clearly wouldn’t be a good thing. I’m interested in the technicalities of how they define it so they can ban it?

[catso]

Grahamdub said:

The reason I was given by a pub landlord was that it is difficult from a distance to tell if someone is smoking or vaping, so it was easier to ban both.

Judging by the mushroom clouds of smoke (steam?) that I see exiting car windows, I'd say you can tell.

Do people actively chose their e-cigs based on their smog-making abilities?

[RobbyJ]

catso said:

Judging by the mushroom clouds of smoke (steam?) that I see exiting car windows, I'd say you can tell.

Do people actively chose their e-cigs based on their smog-making abilities?

Some do yes, personally I don’t get it. They are 0 ohm resistance vapes and you use lower nicotine level fluid, again I don’t get why but some people do it.

I too wonder sometimes when people create localised fog inside their car how they can see where they are going!

[Jonny TVR]

catso said:

Judging by the mushroom clouds of smoke (steam?) that I see exiting car windows, I'd say you can tell.

Do people actively chose their e-cigs based on their smog-making abilities?

There are "cloud chasers" who are mainly interested in just that .. the hobbyist vaper.

[craigjm]

As it stands, certainly in England, the legislation banning smoking in public places does not cover E-cigarettes. However, there is nothing stopping a company such as TFL or any of the rail operators including the banning of E-cigarettes in their terms or service which is basically what they do following the guidance of public health England

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[RobbyJ]

Thanks for that.

The point I failed to mention is I think the station sign say it’s punishable by a fine up to £1000, I wanted to know how it could be enforced and how they define all the weird and wonderful devices loosely termed e-cigarettes?

[PAULJ5555]

Always not sure about this, do you have to be inhaling? could you just hold a fag lit but not smoke it.

[E36GUY]

Doesn't seem at all clear with regards to Vaping being able to be banned at all. That document clearly defines the act of smoking as totally different from the act of vaping and is crystal that the two should not be considered the same, the former is banned in law but the latter is not. Any 'ban' therefore, could surely only be deemed a request as it would not be enforcable.

I have found the vaporiser to be highly effective in avoiding the tabs and indeed, the smell or taste of them nowadays makes me gip but I do still have the nicotine addiction which the vape more than satisfies. I think it's wrong to consider these a quitting tool however. They are a subsitiute. You've not really quit as such! Mine of a type that produces quite very minimal smoke and affects vitually noone. Those big fkers which release the huge clouds that look like they could change the weather are actually able to set off fire alarms and thus I would agree those types should be restricted on planes or trains etc for obviousl reasons.

[shakotan]

RobbyJ said:

Thanks for that.

The point I failed to mention is I think the station sign say it’s punishable by a fine up to £1000, I wanted to know how it could be enforced and how they define all the weird and wonderful devices loosely termed e-cigarettes?

Terms and conditions of use. Effectively a charge for breach of Contract.

[WinstonWolf]

catso said:

Grahamdub said:

The reason I was given by a pub landlord was that it is difficult from a distance to tell if someone is smoking or vaping, so it was easier to ban both.

Judging by the mushroom clouds of smoke (steam?) that I see exiting car windows, I'd say you can tell.

Do people actively chose their e-cigs based on their smog-making abilities?

I choose mine on how stealthy it can be. 0 cloud = good

[craigjm]

shakotan said:

RobbyJ said:

Thanks for that.

The point I failed to mention is I think the station sign say it’s punishable by a fine up to £1000, I wanted to know how it could be enforced and how they define all the weird and wonderful devices loosely termed e-cigarettes?

Terms and conditions of use. Effectively a charge for breach of Contract.

This

You can argue the toss if you wish but railway companies have the power to remove your permission to enter station premises under the railway byelaws and term and conditions of carriage. Try explaining to your boss why you can’t get to work anymore

[RobbyJ]

She’s in the US and probably wouldn’t notice :-)

Fair point the odds are in their favour, I wasn’t suggesting I would do it, I was more interested to see if there had been any test cases around defining what an e-cigarette is generically?

[D1ckie]

Always found this "law" odd.

I stopped smoking over 2 years ago, but do vape. When you are in an airport if you want to vape you have to go to the smoking room which kind of defeats the object of not smoking.

[graylag]

E36GUY said:

Doesn't seem at all clear with regards to Vaping being able to be banned at all. That document clearly defines the act of smoking as totally different from the act of vaping and is crystal that the two should not be considered the same, the former is banned in law but the latter is not. Any 'ban' therefore, could surely only be deemed a request as it would not be enforcable.

I have found the vaporiser to be highly effective in avoiding the tabs and indeed, the smell or taste of them nowadays makes me gip but I do still have the nicotine addiction which the vape more than satisfies. I think it's wrong to consider these a quitting tool however. They are a subsitiute. You've not really quit as such! Mine of a type that produces quite very minimal smoke and affects vitually noone. Those big fkers which release the huge clouds that look like they could change the weather are actually able to set off fire alarms and thus I would agree those types should be restricted on planes or trains etc for obviousl reasons.

I guess opinions on whether they’re a quitting tool vary. I used one for 11 months about 6 years ago to help me quite after 30 years of smoking up to 60 a day. I haven’t touched a cigarette or used an ecig since. To me they are a fantastic way to quit and an idiotic thing to do if you’re not an existing smoker trying to rid yourself of the real cigs.

[mygoldfishbowl]

graylag said:

I guess opinions on whether they’re a quitting tool vary. I used one for 11 months about 6 years ago to help me quite after 30 years of smoking up to 60 a day. I haven’t touched a cigarette or used an ecig since. To me they are a fantastic way to quit and an idiotic thing to do if you’re not an existing smoker trying to rid yourself of the real cigs.

I have to agree. I found them very good for aiding giving up.

[Vaud]

RobbyJ said:

Thanks for that.

The point I failed to mention is I think the station sign say it’s punishable by a fine up to £1000, I wanted to know how it could be enforced and how they define all the weird and wonderful devices loosely termed e-cigarettes?

I think railways have specific bylaws to address the terms by which you access a railway.

[WJNB]

RobbyJ said:

Thanks for that.

The point I failed to mention is I think the station sign say it’s punishable by a fine up to £1000, I wanted to know how it could be enforced and how they define all the weird and wonderful devices loosely termed e-cigarettes?

Oh come on who obeys signs these days? Who is around to enforce such rules?. Who dare enforce them given the degree of aggressive behaviour exhibited by an increasing percentage of society. Make a comment yourself to some oik Vaper & you're likely to get your nose punched or a knife in your guts.

[Nemo Sum]

WJNB said:

Oh come on who obeys signs these days? Who is around to enforce such rules?. Who dare enforce them given the degree of aggressive behaviour exhibited by an increasing percentage of society. Make a comment yourself to some oik Vaper & you're likely to get your nose punched or a knife in your guts.

Very much this. Those signs threatening prosecution are near enough empty. The average member of staff might tell you to stop doing something but no one, who values their job/health/sanity won't take it further than that.