Anybody gone from TTS to GT3?
Discussion
I'm contemplating chopping my 991 TTS in for a 991 GT3. I love the TTS but really think I should own a GT3 once in my life. I'll be paying overs of course.
My TTS is a daily, I take it to work and drop the kids off at school in it. However even using it daily (and my family car here and there) I don't think I'd put more than 3k miles per year on it.
I have to admit that I've never driven a GT car so don't know how it would compare to a TTS. I know that when I've driven a 991.2 C2S I've found it underwhelming in the power dept.
I also once had a high revving M5 V10, redline was also close to 9k iirc. Wonderful engine when fully on song but often quite frustrating on the road because you couldn't get to the nice part of the rev range.
I'm no traffic lights hero but it's pretty embarrassing when you get taken by an 18 year old in a hot hatch lol.
Anybody here gone from TTS to GT3 as a daily?
Thanks
My TTS is a daily, I take it to work and drop the kids off at school in it. However even using it daily (and my family car here and there) I don't think I'd put more than 3k miles per year on it.
I have to admit that I've never driven a GT car so don't know how it would compare to a TTS. I know that when I've driven a 991.2 C2S I've found it underwhelming in the power dept.
I also once had a high revving M5 V10, redline was also close to 9k iirc. Wonderful engine when fully on song but often quite frustrating on the road because you couldn't get to the nice part of the rev range.
I'm no traffic lights hero but it's pretty embarrassing when you get taken by an 18 year old in a hot hatch lol.
Anybody here gone from TTS to GT3 as a daily?
Thanks
Porsche have offered a 10 year warranty on the gen 1 engine. Broadly speaking the later cars (15 onwards) with the G series engine revisions are the best buys. See chart below.
The gen 1s are only available with PDK S transmission in contrast there is a 'manuel' option on the gen 2. Having owned both the 'manuel' is the one to have for driving involvement but this is personal choice. Great gearbox but slightly down from the GT4 and the GT3 clutch is strangely too light imo.
The gen 1 engine is brilliant but the gen 2 being essentially the Porsche cup car race engine is quite astonishing. Both rev to 9k but the drop off in power and max torque between the 2 engines across the rev range is vastly different with the gen 2 being streets ahead partly due less internal friction with central crankshaft oil feed etc upping torque.
Same with engine sound the gen 2 induction is incredible whereas the gen 1 can be a little harsh. Driveline shunt and gearbox clatter way more on the gen 1 and too much for many. In contrast the gen 2 has quieter transmission (dmf) and has less sound insulation to save weight which results in more engine noise intrusion(good) and more road noise intrusion (not so good).
Price wise good spec and mileage gen 1 cars are still retailing over list even after 4+years. Gen 2 cars were up to £185k last Spring but now down to £155ks but all cars are very spec mileage and colour sensitive.
I would recommend spending some time with a GT3 as they are quite hardcore and way more hardcore than a TTS. Some including myself run GT3s as a daily. Note front lift is essential if used as a daily. This was a £2500k option on the gen1 ad £1600 option on the gen 2.
Finally imo very few cars come close to the sheer abilities of the GT3 at the money. Overall a great package.
The gen 1s are only available with PDK S transmission in contrast there is a 'manuel' option on the gen 2. Having owned both the 'manuel' is the one to have for driving involvement but this is personal choice. Great gearbox but slightly down from the GT4 and the GT3 clutch is strangely too light imo.
The gen 1 engine is brilliant but the gen 2 being essentially the Porsche cup car race engine is quite astonishing. Both rev to 9k but the drop off in power and max torque between the 2 engines across the rev range is vastly different with the gen 2 being streets ahead partly due less internal friction with central crankshaft oil feed etc upping torque.
Same with engine sound the gen 2 induction is incredible whereas the gen 1 can be a little harsh. Driveline shunt and gearbox clatter way more on the gen 1 and too much for many. In contrast the gen 2 has quieter transmission (dmf) and has less sound insulation to save weight which results in more engine noise intrusion(good) and more road noise intrusion (not so good).
Price wise good spec and mileage gen 1 cars are still retailing over list even after 4+years. Gen 2 cars were up to £185k last Spring but now down to £155ks but all cars are very spec mileage and colour sensitive.
I would recommend spending some time with a GT3 as they are quite hardcore and way more hardcore than a TTS. Some including myself run GT3s as a daily. Note front lift is essential if used as a daily. This was a £2500k option on the gen1 ad £1600 option on the gen 2.
Finally imo very few cars come close to the sheer abilities of the GT3 at the money. Overall a great package.
Edited by av185 on Sunday 2nd December 12:07
So hard to say this - all I can tell you is although I don’t own a 991 TTS and have only had limited seat time in one (a 1/2 day at the PEC) I know I would never swap a 991.2 GT3 for one - in fact if I could only have one modern 911 forever it would be the GT3 . They are very usable as a DD (especially if PDK) and nothing feels quite like them - mines a manual and it’s just so engaging at all speeds - lots of love for the GT3 from me 
Trouble with this is you really need to drive one as if you are wrong it will hurt financially - why not book a 1/2 day at the PEC and find out ?
Good luck
Trouble with this is you really need to drive one as if you are wrong it will hurt financially - why not book a 1/2 day at the PEC and find out ?
Good luck
Wouldn’t worry too much about the engine issues - every engine will need to be rebuilt at some point
I haven’t driven a 991 but if they are as “hardcore” (Nav, radio, carpets, aircon, heating, heated seats in some instances etc) as a 997 GT car, then that is not really an issue imo. My Scuderia is much noisier and less comfortable (a little more compliant suspension though, if no clutch) than my 997 GT2 ever was and I daily the Scud during summer ( that one can get a bit tedious during long high speed journeys due to noise though in fairness).
It will be noisier and less compliant than a turbo, but that does not mean it is a hardcore track car - it is still a perfectly fine daily car imo - point of reference is the key I guess, not sure what people compare it to sometimes when calling it hardcore
I haven’t driven a 991 but if they are as “hardcore” (Nav, radio, carpets, aircon, heating, heated seats in some instances etc) as a 997 GT car, then that is not really an issue imo. My Scuderia is much noisier and less comfortable (a little more compliant suspension though, if no clutch) than my 997 GT2 ever was and I daily the Scud during summer ( that one can get a bit tedious during long high speed journeys due to noise though in fairness).
It will be noisier and less compliant than a turbo, but that does not mean it is a hardcore track car - it is still a perfectly fine daily car imo - point of reference is the key I guess, not sure what people compare it to sometimes when calling it hardcore
Thanks, the printout of engine variations over the years is very helpful indeed.
It would have to be PDK for me. I haven't owned a manual car for close to 20 years now!
At £185k it's too much for me, but as I'm seeing some now at £150ish I could just manage it.
The suggestion of driving one at PEC is a good one but I wonder how much insight it would give me about what the car would be like to live with on the road.
I'm assuming an OPC would let me have a proper drive in one if they can see I already drive a car that isn't a million miles away in terms of price.
I've also read comments from GT3 owners about the cars being quite a handful now that temps have dropped. Does this stop the car being used daily in winter?
Thanks
It would have to be PDK for me. I haven't owned a manual car for close to 20 years now!
At £185k it's too much for me, but as I'm seeing some now at £150ish I could just manage it.
The suggestion of driving one at PEC is a good one but I wonder how much insight it would give me about what the car would be like to live with on the road.
I'm assuming an OPC would let me have a proper drive in one if they can see I already drive a car that isn't a million miles away in terms of price.
I've also read comments from GT3 owners about the cars being quite a handful now that temps have dropped. Does this stop the car being used daily in winter?
Thanks
Deep said:
Thanks, the printout of engine variations over the years is very helpful indeed.
It would have to be PDK for me. I haven't owned a manual car for close to 20 years now!
At £185k it's too much for me, but as I'm seeing some now at £150ish I could just manage it.
The suggestion of driving one at PEC is a good one but I wonder how much insight it would give me about what the car would be like to live with on the road.
I'm assuming an OPC would let me have a proper drive in one if they can see I already drive a car that isn't a million miles away in terms of price.
I've also read comments from GT3 owners about the cars being quite a handful now that temps have dropped. Does this stop the car being used daily in winter?
Thanks
I would get winter tyres for it to be on the safe side - Cup tyres are not great cold temp tyres imo - I spent the time in hospital to back that up It would have to be PDK for me. I haven't owned a manual car for close to 20 years now!
At £185k it's too much for me, but as I'm seeing some now at £150ish I could just manage it.
The suggestion of driving one at PEC is a good one but I wonder how much insight it would give me about what the car would be like to live with on the road.
I'm assuming an OPC would let me have a proper drive in one if they can see I already drive a car that isn't a million miles away in terms of price.
I've also read comments from GT3 owners about the cars being quite a handful now that temps have dropped. Does this stop the car being used daily in winter?
Thanks
Deep said:
Thanks, the printout of engine variations over the years is very helpful indeed.
It would have to be PDK for me. I haven't owned a manual car for close to 20 years now!
At £185k it's too much for me, but as I'm seeing some now at £150ish I could just manage it.
The suggestion of driving one at PEC is a good one but I wonder how much insight it would give me about what the car would be like to live with on the road.
I'm assuming an OPC would let me have a proper drive in one if they can see I already drive a car that isn't a million miles away in terms of price.
I've also read comments from GT3 owners about the cars being quite a handful now that temps have dropped. Does this stop the car being used daily in winter?
Thanks
Depending on your OPC they will probably be prepared to lend you a car for a day or two. It would have to be PDK for me. I haven't owned a manual car for close to 20 years now!
At £185k it's too much for me, but as I'm seeing some now at £150ish I could just manage it.
The suggestion of driving one at PEC is a good one but I wonder how much insight it would give me about what the car would be like to live with on the road.
I'm assuming an OPC would let me have a proper drive in one if they can see I already drive a car that isn't a million miles away in terms of price.
I've also read comments from GT3 owners about the cars being quite a handful now that temps have dropped. Does this stop the car being used daily in winter?
Thanks
PEC drives are useful especially if you ask to take the car out of the circuit. The route on the B roads down to Buckingham directly from the main gate is as good as any in a GT3.
Some UK gen 2 cars (a minority) came with Dunlops but most came with Michelins. The Dunlops are arguably the inferior tyre but possibly better in the wet. Both are ok to use atm with temps around 7 to 9 but into January sub zero temps winter tyres are essential.
I ran a 991.2 TTS and 991.2 GT3 at the same time with the intention of keeping one as a daily, I ended up selling the TTS but I have to say I really regretted it. I should have run them both for a longer period before making my choice. My reasoning as follows:
1. I love the way a GT3 looks but found the wing a bit much day to day and also restricted the view to the rear.
2. Cup tyres, it really can be a handful in the cold or wet (total contrast to the TTS) even being careful I had a couple of real heart in the mouth moments!. Being able to put power down safely is a high priority for me in a daily.
3. Bucket seats, although they look great and are very comfortable once in they are a pain when jumping in and out.
4. Ride quality, although the GT3 isn’t necessarily hard it is noticeably firmer than the TTS.
5. I missed a few creature comforts, heated seats, adaptive cruise, MF/heated steering wheel etc. Obviously I knew I’d be doing without these when I bought it. I must be getting old!
You do a lot less mileage than me so the above may not be as relevant.
The only other issue is the .2 TTS is so darn good as a daily it’s incredibly hard to beat.
In summary I really miss my TTS!
1. I love the way a GT3 looks but found the wing a bit much day to day and also restricted the view to the rear.
2. Cup tyres, it really can be a handful in the cold or wet (total contrast to the TTS) even being careful I had a couple of real heart in the mouth moments!. Being able to put power down safely is a high priority for me in a daily.
3. Bucket seats, although they look great and are very comfortable once in they are a pain when jumping in and out.
4. Ride quality, although the GT3 isn’t necessarily hard it is noticeably firmer than the TTS.
5. I missed a few creature comforts, heated seats, adaptive cruise, MF/heated steering wheel etc. Obviously I knew I’d be doing without these when I bought it. I must be getting old!
You do a lot less mileage than me so the above may not be as relevant.
The only other issue is the .2 TTS is so darn good as a daily it’s incredibly hard to beat.
In summary I really miss my TTS!
It really is about how much driving involvement you want from your 911.
Yes the TTS is a great package. And if you want a truly rapid car to zap down to the south of France as quickly as possible you could do a lot worse re car choice. Rear seats a bonus too.
But it has a relatively detached driving experience compared to a GT3.
Also bear in mind the GT3 comes with standard sports or adaptive comfort seats (although these cars sell for less than bucket seat cars) with optional heaters. Heated seats also optional on the older style folding P11 buckets.
Cruise also available on the GT3 as an option. Rear camera an option on the gen 2.
Yes the TTS is a great package. And if you want a truly rapid car to zap down to the south of France as quickly as possible you could do a lot worse re car choice. Rear seats a bonus too.
But it has a relatively detached driving experience compared to a GT3.
Also bear in mind the GT3 comes with standard sports or adaptive comfort seats (although these cars sell for less than bucket seat cars) with optional heaters. Heated seats also optional on the older style folding P11 buckets.
Cruise also available on the GT3 as an option. Rear camera an option on the gen 2.
The gt3 is borderline useable as a daily .Standard seats and pdk do help in this respect .
Visibility out the rear is poor and truthfully the car generates too much noise from everything to be a true daily ,but I drive mine most days .The current weather means it comes out a bit less ,which wouldn’t be the case with the turbo.
I think the gt3 is much more fun to drive but it is not a good a daily as the turbo .
Visibility out the rear is poor and truthfully the car generates too much noise from everything to be a true daily ,but I drive mine most days .The current weather means it comes out a bit less ,which wouldn’t be the case with the turbo.
I think the gt3 is much more fun to drive but it is not a good a daily as the turbo .
OPC's can be a bit shy about allowing lengthy test drives of used car stock...get them to send you to the PEC for a half day given you're potentially selling a very expensive car to buy amother very expensive car there's plenty of margin in it for them to cough up the money for a PEC slot. My OPC offered to send my wife to the PEC before we bought a Cayenne S Diesel because they didn't have a demo.
Having owned god knows how many GT3's and turbo's, I'm currently enjoying a lovely 2018 Carrera T as my daily:
- classic look, no stupid wing needed for going to the office or supermarket
- practical with 4 comfort seats, not a ball ache to get in and out of
- manual short shift box with closer ratios than the boggo Carreras
- torquey engine, far better than the GT3 in the 1,500 to 5,000 RPM zone
- take it to Ken at 9e and it can have 500PS and sound amazing for a modest outlay
- half the price
- classic look, no stupid wing needed for going to the office or supermarket
- practical with 4 comfort seats, not a ball ache to get in and out of
- manual short shift box with closer ratios than the boggo Carreras
- torquey engine, far better than the GT3 in the 1,500 to 5,000 RPM zone
- take it to Ken at 9e and it can have 500PS and sound amazing for a modest outlay
- half the price
nn7man said:
Having owned god knows how many GT3's and turbo's, I'm currently enjoying a lovely 2018 Carrera T as my daily:
- classic look, no stupid wing needed for going to the office or supermarket
- practical with 4 comfort seats, not a ball ache to get in and out of
- manual short shift box with closer ratios than the boggo Carreras
- torquey engine, far better than the GT3 in the 1,500 to 5,000 RPM zone
- take it to Ken at 9e and it can have 500PS and sound amazing for a modest outlay
- half the price
Yep enjoying my T too. Great daily. But no GT3.- classic look, no stupid wing needed for going to the office or supermarket
- practical with 4 comfort seats, not a ball ache to get in and out of
- manual short shift box with closer ratios than the boggo Carreras
- torquey engine, far better than the GT3 in the 1,500 to 5,000 RPM zone
- take it to Ken at 9e and it can have 500PS and sound amazing for a modest outlay
- half the price
Agree with your points excepting the engine bit. The T engine is good...for a turbo.
As expected there is no comparison whatsoever with the gen 2 4.0 GT3 engine though which is truly epic and a lot torquier at lower revs than GT3s of old including the gen 1 991. Sounds much better too.
nn7man said:
Having owned god knows how many GT3's and turbo's, I'm currently enjoying a lovely 2018 Carrera T as my daily:
- classic look, no stupid wing needed for going to the office or supermarket
- practical with 4 comfort seats, not a ball ache to get in and out of
- manual short shift box with closer ratios than the boggo Carreras
- torquey engine, far better than the GT3 in the 1,500 to 5,000 RPM zone
- take it to Ken at 9e and it can have 500PS and sound amazing for a modest outlay
- half the price
Good post : can I ask about the noise - I have a 991.2 GTS and I have to say it’s a very nice thing but it does sound crap - I’m interested to know what you did with yours to make it sound amazing ? Cheers - classic look, no stupid wing needed for going to the office or supermarket
- practical with 4 comfort seats, not a ball ache to get in and out of
- manual short shift box with closer ratios than the boggo Carreras
- torquey engine, far better than the GT3 in the 1,500 to 5,000 RPM zone
- take it to Ken at 9e and it can have 500PS and sound amazing for a modest outlay
- half the price
(Maybe being a bit harsh re the sound of the GTS - I had a 718 Cayman as a loan car last week - now that really doesn’t sound good !
)av185 said:
Yep enjoying my T too. Great daily. But no GT3.
Agree with your points excepting the engine bit. The T engine is good...for a turbo.
As expected there is no comparison whatsoever with the gen 2 4.0 GT3 engine though which is truly epic and a lot torquier at lower revs than GT3s of old including the gen 1 991. Sounds much better too.
Of course its not a GT3, but putting the badge on one side, its more usable and practical Mon-Fri. And once 9e have fettled it, a GT3 wouldn't see which way it went on the road.Agree with your points excepting the engine bit. The T engine is good...for a turbo.
As expected there is no comparison whatsoever with the gen 2 4.0 GT3 engine though which is truly epic and a lot torquier at lower revs than GT3s of old including the gen 1 991. Sounds much better too.
RSVP911 said:
Good post : can I ask about the noise - I have a 991.2 GTS and I have to say it’s a very nice thing but it does sound crap - I’m interested to know what you did with yours to make it sound amazing ? Cheers
(Maybe being a bit harsh re the sound of the GTS - I had a 718 Cayman as a loan car last week - now that really doesn’t sound good ! )
Full Kline system including new manifolds and 200 cell cats. Inconel if you really want the dogs xxxxxxxx at a price (Maybe being a bit harsh re the sound of the GTS - I had a 718 Cayman as a loan car last week - now that really doesn’t sound good !
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