Banning of classics with more modern engines

[E30M3ZONE]

Apologises if this topic has been previously discussed.

I'm considering the purchase of a Mark 2 Escort with n/a Cosworth. However, I think I may have read something recently regarding possible legislation which effectively bans such conversions. Or at least will make them impossible to MOT and therefore effectively banning them for road use. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Kinkell]

There will probably be more mk2 Escorts currently rallying with modern engines than period correct examples. They are mot'd and road legal notwithstanding the recent 40 year ruling.

[Ryan_T]

st I hope not, just imported a V8 240Z...

[Turn7]

Cant see that being retrospective at all....

[aeropilot]

E30M3ZONE said:

Apologises if this topic has been previously discussed.

I'm considering the purchase of a Mark 2 Escort with n/a Cosworth. However, I think I may have read something recently regarding possible legislation which effectively bans such conversions. Or at least will make them impossible to MOT and therefore effectively banning them for road use. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Probably confusion regarding the changes to the zero rate VED for VHI based on 40 years, and the MOT requirement to remain if 'substantially modified'.

[Dave.]

Ryan_T said:

st I hope not, just imported a V8 240Z...

Hope you're gonna do a thread on that?

[bloomen]

Never heard of anything like that before. It's possible it might happen in motorsport, they've already banned proper specials in rallying. I see no reason why that would happen on the road.

I guess the only possibility is that if you have more modern bits you may not be mot exempt.

[Spitfire2]

Probably thinking about the changes whereby cars over 40 years old are MOT exempt unless significantly modified. A modern engine increasing power by X-percent (I forget exactly) or various other modifications simply meant the car won't be MOT exempt.

[Olivera]

What constitutes a modern engine? An N/A cosworth engine is a 70s pinto bottom end combined with an 80s Cosworth cylinder head.

It has pretty much no technology from a modern engine, e.g. no variable valve timing or lift, no direct injection etc.

[2xChevrons]

Olivera said:

What constitutes a modern engine? An N/A cosworth engine is a 70s pinto bottom end combined with an 80s Cosworth cylinder head.

It has pretty much no technology from a modern engine, e.g. no variable valve timing or lift, no direct injection etc.

Here's the relevant bits of the guidelines:

=

Engine
–
alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative original equipment engines are not considered a substantial change. If the number of cylinders in an engine is different from the original, it is likely to be, but not necessarily, the case that the current engine is not alternative original equipment.

The following are considered acceptable (not substantial) changes if they fall into these specific categories:
......
changes of a type, that can be demonstrated to have been made when
vehicles of the type were in production or in general use (within ten years of the end of production);

=

It's pretty much saying that if you could buy [car] with [engine] when it was new then it's not classified as a 'substatial alteration'. So dropping an Essex V6 into a Kent-engined Mk1 Capri? Fine. Putting a 1600 Kent in a 1300 Mk1 Escort? Fine. Putting a 1600GT engine in an 1300 Escort? Fine. Putting an RS2000 engine in a 1300 Escort? Probably fine. Putting a Cosworth YB into a Mk1 Escort? Not fine.

But that's only 'fine/not fine' in terms of MoT exemption. You can do whatever you like to any old car and so long as it passes the MoT then it's perfectly legal. But cars that are exempt from testing for reasons of 'Historical Interest' have to be, y'know, historical.

[E30M3ZONE]

Thanks for the clarifications. I now recall that is was the 40 year rule as described that I had read about. Are these guidelines active or under review for potential future implementation?

[Spitfire2]

Already in place.

And a decision I'll need to make in a few months as my oldest car has passed its 40th year now so is eligible for both VED and MOT exemption.

I think I'll MOT it regardless.

[Peter3442]

I’m not sure that the MoT exemption is generally very useful to most of us as we’d MoT a running vehicle anyway. However, it might simplify re-registering an old car that’s not running.

The exemption from road tax is a useful saving. From the info on the gov.uk website, though ‘substantial modifications’ preclude the MoT exemption, they still allow the tax emption. My fear is that Historic Classification might turn into a limited use category – like only driving to car shows.

The allowed modifications seem to have been widened and some nice loopholes added. I thought that there was a limit on increase in engine power, but I couldn’t find a mention of it in my last look at the website. I may be wrong, but it would appear that if you want to replace the 2.4 XK6 engine in your Mk2 Jaguar with a fuel-injected and supercharged 4.2 XK6, it’s OK for MoT and tax exemption. Could be fun!

[sideways man]

I’m quite happy MOTing my YB turbo’d mk1 escort.
Having it up on ramps and being inspected professionally once a year is good value, from a point of safety view

[300bhp/ton]

E30M3ZONE said:

Thanks for the clarifications. I now recall that is was the 40 year rule as described that I had read about. Are these guidelines active or under review for potential future implementation?

lol did you actually read about it....

[300bhp/ton]

sideways man said:

I’m quite happy MOTing my YB turbo’d mk1 escort.
Having it up on ramps and being inspected professionally once a year is good value, from a point of safety view

You know you can do this anytime though, doesn't need to be an MoT...

[Norfolkandchance]

I've always dreamed of building a special. Production chassis such as Triumph or MGA, for example. Different engine (possibly from similar period). Special body.

Would this be allowed? Would it need to pass anything other than an MOT?

(This isn't actually important as I don't have the time or skill to do it, but it would be nice to keep the dream alive!)

[300bhp/ton]

Norfolkandchance said:

I've always dreamed of building a special. Production chassis such as Triumph or MGA, for example. Different engine (possibly from similar period). Special body.

Would this be allowed? Would it need to pass anything other than an MOT?

(This isn't actually important as I don't have the time or skill to do it, but it would be nice to keep the dream alive!)

It’s all allowed. Some mods will mean it won’t be MoT exempt and some may mean it will need an IVA and loose it reg, thusly meaning it won’t be tax exempt either. But it’s all allowed.