BMW e90 320d paranoia! (N47 timing chain)
Discussion
Hi guys,
I have bought 2009 320d e90 m sports automatic with the n47 engine. I absolutely love the car. It has done 71k miles.
It was all nice and fun up until I read up on forums about the n47 timing belt failures and overall reputation of the engine! I am now having a massive mind f*** and need to make some decisions. After watching youtube videos I can confirm that with windows down I can hear the squeaky sound above 1500rpm!
Option 1: Get it fixed before it breaks the engine and keep the car
I am getting quotes for the timing belt replacement for £800. To be fair considering the price I paid for car, it wont be a very bad deal even with repair costs. I can justify it as long as it does not happen for another 35-40k miles. Do you think its worth it? I dont want to be biased because of internet comments as it is one sided view and majority of the people do not post it online when cars run fine.
Option 2: Return the car
I can still return the car to seller as it is a very recent buy. There are two issues though
A) the dealership is 3.5hrs away from me so I will have to invest a full day for it and then start finding cars again! Issue is I dont like mercs or audis in the budget i have and <70k mileage.
B) I bought the car for £6.4k and it was an amazing deal considering the normal market price for my needs is at least 7k. Therefore even if I return it and buy another car it will be £600 more expensive most likely!
Considering above facts I believe I will break even between both choices in terms of £££
It all comes down to whether these engines are a total disaster OR if you replace the timing belt in advance, there is a good chance the car will not give any major issues?
Option 3: Keep driving and using car despite slight noise
The danger with above is obvious. Full engine damage and possibly life danger if belt snaps on highway!
I do have 12m RAC warranty on the car, however because I am considering the above repair as a precautionary measure, I doubt they will cover it
Sorry for a massive story! But any advice will be superrrrr helpful
Thanks
Paranoid first time beama owner
I have bought 2009 320d e90 m sports automatic with the n47 engine. I absolutely love the car. It has done 71k miles.
It was all nice and fun up until I read up on forums about the n47 timing belt failures and overall reputation of the engine! I am now having a massive mind f*** and need to make some decisions. After watching youtube videos I can confirm that with windows down I can hear the squeaky sound above 1500rpm!
Option 1: Get it fixed before it breaks the engine and keep the car
I am getting quotes for the timing belt replacement for £800. To be fair considering the price I paid for car, it wont be a very bad deal even with repair costs. I can justify it as long as it does not happen for another 35-40k miles. Do you think its worth it? I dont want to be biased because of internet comments as it is one sided view and majority of the people do not post it online when cars run fine.
Option 2: Return the car
I can still return the car to seller as it is a very recent buy. There are two issues though
A) the dealership is 3.5hrs away from me so I will have to invest a full day for it and then start finding cars again! Issue is I dont like mercs or audis in the budget i have and <70k mileage.
B) I bought the car for £6.4k and it was an amazing deal considering the normal market price for my needs is at least 7k. Therefore even if I return it and buy another car it will be £600 more expensive most likely!
Considering above facts I believe I will break even between both choices in terms of £££
It all comes down to whether these engines are a total disaster OR if you replace the timing belt in advance, there is a good chance the car will not give any major issues?
Option 3: Keep driving and using car despite slight noise
The danger with above is obvious. Full engine damage and possibly life danger if belt snaps on highway!
I do have 12m RAC warranty on the car, however because I am considering the above repair as a precautionary measure, I doubt they will cover it
Sorry for a massive story! But any advice will be superrrrr helpful
Thanks
Paranoid first time beama owner
Don’t want to be a pedant but it’s a timing chain, not a belt.
That’s the whole point, BMW designed this engine for a chain to be a lifetime part, not a service item like a cam belt is, hence the high cost of replacement due to lack of accessibility.
Might be worth getting the terminology right if you’re talking to specialists about replacement of the chain, calling it a belt might light up the eyes of the more disreputable ends of the motor trade, should you bump into them.
That’s the whole point, BMW designed this engine for a chain to be a lifetime part, not a service item like a cam belt is, hence the high cost of replacement due to lack of accessibility.
Might be worth getting the terminology right if you’re talking to specialists about replacement of the chain, calling it a belt might light up the eyes of the more disreputable ends of the motor trade, should you bump into them.
Thanks for the correction. I do partly blame euro car parts website for the confusion. So do you suggest I keep driving despite the noise?
PurpleTurtle said:
Don’t want to be a pedant but it’s a timing chain, not a belt.
That’s the whole point, BMW designed this engine for a chain to be a lifetime part, not a service item like a cam belt is, hence the high cost of replacement due to lack of accessibility.
Might be worth getting the terminology right if you’re talking to specialists about replacement of the chain, calling it a belt might light up the eyes of the more disreputable ends of the motor trade, should you bump into them.
That’s the whole point, BMW designed this engine for a chain to be a lifetime part, not a service item like a cam belt is, hence the high cost of replacement due to lack of accessibility.
Might be worth getting the terminology right if you’re talking to specialists about replacement of the chain, calling it a belt might light up the eyes of the more disreputable ends of the motor trade, should you bump into them.
Firstly - life risk if failure happened on motorway - wtf? U still have steering, u still have brakes, but the engine will Cutout- roll to side of motorway and call recovery.
Anyway - early n47s up to 2008 were more notorious for chain failure.
Improved a lot after 2008 and even more so after 2012 and then 2014. Chances are the chain will be fine - it’s not unheard of for a 2009 n47 to snap chain, But most don’t and they run to big mileage.
Most of these engines u can hear slight noise from the chain - does not mean imminent failure.
U have warranty at present which I assume can be extended if need be- just get it confirmed it would be covered if t were to fail.
They are very good engines and are used In 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, x1, x3, x4 even x5’s and was their most popular engine - was in pretty much everything from 14d to the 25d for years. Theirs going to be horror stories on the internet. And any car u buy will have horror stories once u google them.
Service it annually with good quality oil and filter
Anyway - early n47s up to 2008 were more notorious for chain failure.
Improved a lot after 2008 and even more so after 2012 and then 2014. Chances are the chain will be fine - it’s not unheard of for a 2009 n47 to snap chain, But most don’t and they run to big mileage.
Most of these engines u can hear slight noise from the chain - does not mean imminent failure.
U have warranty at present which I assume can be extended if need be- just get it confirmed it would be covered if t were to fail.
They are very good engines and are used In 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, x1, x3, x4 even x5’s and was their most popular engine - was in pretty much everything from 14d to the 25d for years. Theirs going to be horror stories on the internet. And any car u buy will have horror stories once u google them.
Service it annually with good quality oil and filter
Rider007 said:
Up until a month ago, I was running an E91 estate 320d since 2012. Generally has been a good car but two turbos have blown "no joke intended there", and a clutch replaced. Also running on run flats are very harsh. Scrap value now as not worth repairing for age.
I’d happily give u scrap value for a 2012 3 series with a broken engine!I had a 2008 E90 with one. I got the chain done as there was a little rattle. Better to be safe than sorry. Wasn't that that killed it, cracked cylinder linder 3 and heated up and spun crank bearings. Bought a 2006 build 2007 M47 engined car to replace it and vastly a better unit. However the N47 went well with 215bhp. If you're very concerned, get it done. It's like anything, look after it properly, don't abuse it and it will be fine. Use genuine BMW filters and top class oil and service every 6k and it will last.
If you keep driving and ignoring the issue it will inevitably fail - it's just a question of when. Changing the camshaft chain kit is the only long term solution - provided you fit the last revision of the said parts. I would also add Ceratec and reduce oil change intervals to no more than 12k miles - not before taking this up with the seller and asking for compensation to the tune of £800. Do NOT add Ceratec to the engine oil if the seller wants to check your claim - it will make the noise go away and you with nothing to show. The chain will remain stretched though.
Your worrying too much. I took a E90 320d from 150k to 228k and drove it very hard, the engine made weird noises all the while. It was still going strong when I sold it. That was remapped at about 160k miles too!
Service your car regularly using quality oil and parts and you'll be ok. Look after the car and it will look after you.
Service your car regularly using quality oil and parts and you'll be ok. Look after the car and it will look after you.
dmarkovina said:
If you keep driving and ignoring the issue it will inevitably fail - it's just a question of when. Changing the camshaft chain kit is the only long term solution - provided you fit the last revision of the said parts. I would also add Ceratec and reduce oil change intervals to no more than 12k miles - not before taking this up with the seller and asking for compensation to the tune of £800. Do NOT add Ceratec to the engine oil if the seller wants to check your claim - it will make the noise go away and you with nothing to show. The chain will remain stretched though.
Compensation?! For what? You haven’t heard the engine- it might be the slightest of noises which they all make - are you saying every n47 engines car should come with £800 compensation just in case one day it may or may not fail. From what we know from the op- the engine runs well with no issues apart from he’s googled the engine and then obsessed over a known issue to the point he’s comparing YouTube videos. The turbo may also one day fail, or an injector, or a gearbox - how much compensation should be giving for them possibilities?
These engines are noisy by nature just to add. They are made of aluminum for starters and the chain is placed right up against the firewall of the cabin at rear of the engine, so this in itself is going to add to the acoustics of the engine and will be nosier by nature.
Servicing is the key with this and fresh oil which has been mentioned already, I would not worry.
I know many N47 cars running to 200k+ with nothing wrong, and they all sound the same.
Servicing is the key with this and fresh oil which has been mentioned already, I would not worry.
I know many N47 cars running to 200k+ with nothing wrong, and they all sound the same.
Elliot2000 said:
Compensation?! For what? You haven’t heard the engine- it might be the slightest of noises which they all make - are you saying every n47 engines car should come with £800 compensation just in case one day it may or may not fail. From what we know from the op- the engine runs well with no issues apart from he’s googled the engine and then obsessed over a known issue to the point he’s comparing YouTube videos.
The turbo may also one day fail, or an injector, or a gearbox - how much compensation should be giving for them possibilities?
Totally agree, if the dealer has offered refund in the first place, it leaves me in no position to ask for any sort of compensation. The turbo may also one day fail, or an injector, or a gearbox - how much compensation should be giving for them possibilities?
DailyHack said:
These engines are noisy by nature just to add. They are made of aluminum for starters and the chain is placed right up against the firewall of the cabin at rear of the engine, so this in itself is going to add to the acoustics of the engine and will be nosier by nature.
Servicing is the key with this and fresh oil which has been mentioned already, I would not worry.
I know many N47 cars running to 200k+ with nothing wrong, and they all sound the same.
Makes the dilemma worse somehow as one can never be sure whether engine will blow up or not. I would be gutted to hear squeaky noises again even after replacing the timing chain. I can see myself overthinking but the vision of engine locking with no brakes working on a highway gives me horrors and don't want to risk that. (If only I did not love the e90 LCI that much).Servicing is the key with this and fresh oil which has been mentioned already, I would not worry.
I know many N47 cars running to 200k+ with nothing wrong, and they all sound the same.
Mohsin125 said:
Makes the dilemma worse somehow as one can never be sure whether engine will blow up or not. I would be gutted to hear squeaky noises again even after replacing the timing chain. I can see myself overthinking but the vision of engine locking with no brakes working on a highway gives me horrors and don't want to risk that. (If only I did not love the e90 LCI that much).
Any engine can blow up mate, if it does it does, only a car at the end of the day, they can be fixed.I would stop worrying and just drive, and look after it - or just sell it, but you will find all cars have their achilles heal of issues (google VW timing chains and Honda timing chains) you will see...
I bought a pre-registered 57 plate 123d with the N47 engine in January 2008.
Kept it until 2014 by which time it had done 81K miles. Part of the reason I sold it was the cam-chain horror stories (this was before the BMW "Quality Enhancement" programme began), but in fairness probably because I've never kept a car that long before and I fancied a change!
But as someone already said the earliest versions (like mine) seem to have suffered more issues, and when you consider how many N47s have been fitted to 1, 3 & 5 Series it must be a fairly small percentage that have the problem.
So if you have a warranty why not just enjoy the car, and maybe have more frequent oil and filter changes than the OBC suggests!
Oops, the MOT on my 123d expired in October - I wonder if it has become a victim? (It had done 103K when it passed in October 2017).
Kept it until 2014 by which time it had done 81K miles. Part of the reason I sold it was the cam-chain horror stories (this was before the BMW "Quality Enhancement" programme began), but in fairness probably because I've never kept a car that long before and I fancied a change!
But as someone already said the earliest versions (like mine) seem to have suffered more issues, and when you consider how many N47s have been fitted to 1, 3 & 5 Series it must be a fairly small percentage that have the problem.
So if you have a warranty why not just enjoy the car, and maybe have more frequent oil and filter changes than the OBC suggests!
Oops, the MOT on my 123d expired in October - I wonder if it has become a victim? (It had done 103K when it passed in October 2017).
Mohsin125 said:
Makes the dilemma worse somehow as one can never be sure whether engine will blow up or not. I would be gutted to hear squeaky noises again even after replacing the timing chain. I can see myself overthinking but the vision of engine locking with no brakes working on a highway gives me horrors and don't want to risk that. (If only I did not love the e90 LCI that much).
Why do u think the brakes will not work if engine cuts out? U will still have brakes, servo assistance will start to reduce but you will still have brakes the whole time. Same with steering - it will be less assisted but you still have the ability to safely direct the car to the hard shoulderMohsin125 said:
Makes the dilemma worse somehow as one can never be sure whether engine will blow up or not. I would be gutted to hear squeaky noises again even after replacing the timing chain. I can see myself overthinking but the vision of engine locking with no brakes working on a highway gives me horrors and don't want to risk that. (If only I did not love the e90 LCI that much).
Why do u think the brakes will not work if engine cuts out? U will still have brakes, servo assistance will start to reduce but you will still have brakes the whole time. Same with steering - it will be less assisted but you still have the ability to safely direct the car to the hard shoulder
Thanks everyone! The comments helped me alott to realise the reality of things. Tbh the brakes horror was also something I read on a forum. Clearly that guy did not know what he was talking about and described a lethal scenario.
I also got the car checked from a BM specialist who replaces timing chains day in day out. He confirmed the car sounds fine and I should not worry too much.
Now I can focus on adding some basic mods to the car
I also got the car checked from a BM specialist who replaces timing chains day in day out. He confirmed the car sounds fine and I should not worry too much.
Now I can focus on adding some basic mods to the car
Elliot2000 said:
Why do u think the brakes will not work if engine cuts out? U will still have brakes, servo assistance will start to reduce but you will still have brakes the whole time. Same with steering - it will be less assisted but you still have the ability to safely direct the car to the hard shoulder
Actually it's only just occurred to me, but in a car with EPAS like the OPs, wouldn't the power steering still work normally so long as the ignition is on?Ever had an N47 timing chain go while driving? I have (120 miles from home one evening) and I thank my lucky ones I was not on the outside lane of a Motorway how you get out of that nightmare I have no idea.......if I had an N47 engine from 2007-2009 I would offload it . Yes you can type that it hardly happens as so many engines out there but it happened to me completely mashing the engine then afterwards you have all the aggro and cost to look forward t.
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