No Immobiliser LED
Discussion
Hi Everyone
Not posted for several years and cannot find my login details so I have started afresh.
I have a 1997 4.0 Chimp which I have owned since 1997! It has been sat under cover in my front garden for over 10 years and is in need of some TLC
I have finally moved it into a garage to start bringing it back to life.
One of the first things I did was to buy a new battery - however on disconnecting \ reconnecting I now no longer have an LED on the immobiliser fob point below the ignition key (neither red all the time nor flashing red). The alarm LED in the centre of the dash does illuminate and the key fob opens the doors \ initiates the flashing indicators etc.
All electrics are working like dash lights, fans, indicators, radio etc but the fuel pump does not prime, there is no clicking sound from any relays, there is no cranking or attempt to crank when I turn they key
I'm wondering if the immobiliser (Meta M36) is dead or is it not powered (I don't know where \ how it is powered, is it linked to the 14CUX unit?)
Any advice would be much appreciated thank!
Not posted for several years and cannot find my login details so I have started afresh.
I have a 1997 4.0 Chimp which I have owned since 1997! It has been sat under cover in my front garden for over 10 years and is in need of some TLC
I have finally moved it into a garage to start bringing it back to life.
One of the first things I did was to buy a new battery - however on disconnecting \ reconnecting I now no longer have an LED on the immobiliser fob point below the ignition key (neither red all the time nor flashing red). The alarm LED in the centre of the dash does illuminate and the key fob opens the doors \ initiates the flashing indicators etc.
All electrics are working like dash lights, fans, indicators, radio etc but the fuel pump does not prime, there is no clicking sound from any relays, there is no cranking or attempt to crank when I turn they key
I'm wondering if the immobiliser (Meta M36) is dead or is it not powered (I don't know where \ how it is powered, is it linked to the 14CUX unit?)
Any advice would be much appreciated thank!
Should you need a new immobiliser they are for sale at a good price https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thatcham-Cat-2-Immobilise...
If you have a look on the Abacus Alarms website, there is a section on it covering problems. A failed immobiliser is a possible consequence of having had the battery disconnected for a long time according to that.
However, it isn't simply a case of swapping out the failed immobiliser. Others will be along to explain in more detail, but in essence there are two relay circuits inside the immobiliser, one highish current, the other lower, and TVR in their wisdom wired the starter circuit through the lower current circuit, leading over time to the infamous 'hot start' issue as the relay gets damaged. So you want someone to sell you an immobiliser with wiring converted to turn the circuits the right way round.
The other issue is that the new immobiliser won't be able to talk to the existing alarm system, because all of the non reusable memory slots will have been used up. This means that unlocking the doors won't disarm the immobiliser, and you'll always have to use the dongle, which is a right PITA. In order to sort this, you'll need a new alarm box too.
It's all on here. The bloke who runs the business s very helpful, and it would be worth giving him a call.
https://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/tvr-alarms.html
However, it isn't simply a case of swapping out the failed immobiliser. Others will be along to explain in more detail, but in essence there are two relay circuits inside the immobiliser, one highish current, the other lower, and TVR in their wisdom wired the starter circuit through the lower current circuit, leading over time to the infamous 'hot start' issue as the relay gets damaged. So you want someone to sell you an immobiliser with wiring converted to turn the circuits the right way round.
The other issue is that the new immobiliser won't be able to talk to the existing alarm system, because all of the non reusable memory slots will have been used up. This means that unlocking the doors won't disarm the immobiliser, and you'll always have to use the dongle, which is a right PITA. In order to sort this, you'll need a new alarm box too.
It's all on here. The bloke who runs the business s very helpful, and it would be worth giving him a call.
https://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/tvr-alarms.html
Thanks for the advice. I have studied so much from previous posts and don't want to bodge it (with a full bypass) or replace just the immobiliser as it wont then be paired with the alarm so I would need to use the separate fob every time.
I was thinking of contacting Abacus or Carl Baker or Dave from HF but I was just wondering how the M36 is powered and how can I check if it is actually getting power - I have read so many posts, both TVR specific and non-TVR (eg the Meta systems were installed in Lotus Elises) and the one symptom I cannot find is my one whereby the LED beneath the ignition is not lit - so I do not know if power is reaching the M36.
I'd really like to know if there are any fuses or any place to check where the unit gets its power from, ChimpOnGas seems really knowledgeable on this so I'm hoping he has some advice before I go down the entire system replacement route
I was thinking of contacting Abacus or Carl Baker or Dave from HF but I was just wondering how the M36 is powered and how can I check if it is actually getting power - I have read so many posts, both TVR specific and non-TVR (eg the Meta systems were installed in Lotus Elises) and the one symptom I cannot find is my one whereby the LED beneath the ignition is not lit - so I do not know if power is reaching the M36.
I'd really like to know if there are any fuses or any place to check where the unit gets its power from, ChimpOnGas seems really knowledgeable on this so I'm hoping he has some advice before I go down the entire system replacement route
Would photos of the car or logbook reassure you pit stop? As I say I don’t want to bypass the security system so I am not asking for a wiring diagram of the immobiliser, I just want to find out where to check that power is being supplied to it - if there is a break and I can fix the break then the car will still be immobilised but I can then use my key fob to disarm (ie I have both the key fob and the car so can’t be a car thief!!)
Btw - I have been a TVR owner since 1997 when I bought the Chimaera, also had a Tuscan S from new in 2003 which I found recently here https://www.jamesagger.com/listings/2003-03-reg-tu... , that was a beautiful car that I specced and still have the photos the Factory took throughout the build process. Did Le Mans trips in both in 2002 and 2003
As your car has been unused for a considerable time the fact that your fuel pump fails to prime could well be a separate fault to your immobiliser problem.
The fuel pump circuit has many potential areas where a bit of damp can cause a poor connection this may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
It is relatively easy to bypass the immobiliser circuit in the footwell this will eliminate the immobiliser causing the fault.
Best of luck
The fuel pump circuit has many potential areas where a bit of damp can cause a poor connection this may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
It is relatively easy to bypass the immobiliser circuit in the footwell this will eliminate the immobiliser causing the fault.
Best of luck
CHIMPINGPED said:
Would photos of the car or logbook reassure you pit stop? As I say I don’t want to bypass the security system so I am not asking for a wiring diagram of the immobiliser, I just want to find out where to check that power is being supplied to it - if there is a break and I can fix the break then the car will still be immobilised but I can then use my key fob to disarm (ie I have both the key fob and the car so can’t be a car thief!!)
No they wouldn't reassure me, I like others here don't know you from AdamYou will get a fix from here if you manage to find someone that knows you
Loubaruch said:
As your car has been unused for a considerable time the fact that your fuel pump fails to prime could well be a separate fault to your immobiliser problem.
The fuel pump circuit has many potential areas where a bit of damp can cause a poor connection this may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
It is relatively easy to bypass the immobiliser circuit in the footwell this will eliminate the immobiliser causing the fault.
Best of luck
Thing is, the car doesn't crank either. That says to me it is something immobilser related, specially as there is no red light on the receptacle on the steering column. The immobiliser would have armed when the ignition was last turned off when it last ran. If it failed during the lay up, it's presumably failed in the armed state. The fuel pump circuit has many potential areas where a bit of damp can cause a poor connection this may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
It is relatively easy to bypass the immobiliser circuit in the footwell this will eliminate the immobiliser causing the fault.
Best of luck
OP, I suggested you call Abacus, which would still be the first thing I would do. If nonetheless you still want to sort this yourself, I don't know which fuse does what, but it's easy enough to pull them one by one and do a continuity check on them. The Abacus link tells you where to find the immobiliser, however looking at it isn't going to help much, as all the wires going to it are black, so without a wiring diagram you won't be able to work out what any of these wires do.
That's what's bothering me biscuits, thanks for your help
Incidentally, the order if events was as follows:
(1) car laid up
(2) attempted jump start (as battery no good) from another car about 3 months ago, I had a red led which went out when I unlocked the car, attempted to start within 15 seconds of disarming and the engine cranked ok (didn't start but that's likely to be an issue from the lay up eg water in the fuel)
(3) bought new battery a couple of weeks ago, connected it and LED in the receptacle was lit like normal, didn't try starting as car is up on axle stands whilst I assess what restoration work I need to do eg outriggers
(4) battery was losing charge quite quickly (courtesy light issue maybe?) so I disconnected battery and charged fully with my CTEK
(5) when I reattached battery all electrics worked but there was no longer an LED in the receptacle, no priming of fuel and no cranking of engine (to be expected really as no LED suggests immobiliser is still armed)
I have tested all fuses in the passenger footwell (though I'm not sure if any relate to this, fuse 2 is for ECU) and the two in the back of the M99 (I have the top dash off and also have removed the stereo so I can see theres nothing to check with the M36 as its just a black box with lots of black wires!)
I'm out of ideas now so will take your advice and check with Carl \ HF Dave \ Abacus
Incidentally, the order if events was as follows:
(1) car laid up
(2) attempted jump start (as battery no good) from another car about 3 months ago, I had a red led which went out when I unlocked the car, attempted to start within 15 seconds of disarming and the engine cranked ok (didn't start but that's likely to be an issue from the lay up eg water in the fuel)
(3) bought new battery a couple of weeks ago, connected it and LED in the receptacle was lit like normal, didn't try starting as car is up on axle stands whilst I assess what restoration work I need to do eg outriggers
(4) battery was losing charge quite quickly (courtesy light issue maybe?) so I disconnected battery and charged fully with my CTEK
(5) when I reattached battery all electrics worked but there was no longer an LED in the receptacle, no priming of fuel and no cranking of engine (to be expected really as no LED suggests immobiliser is still armed)
I have tested all fuses in the passenger footwell (though I'm not sure if any relate to this, fuse 2 is for ECU) and the two in the back of the M99 (I have the top dash off and also have removed the stereo so I can see theres nothing to check with the M36 as its just a black box with lots of black wires!)
I'm out of ideas now so will take your advice and check with Carl \ HF Dave \ Abacus
I'm not sure if you are saying that the problems started after you took the dash top off or took the radio out, but it might be worthwhile checking the connections between the touchkey socket, the immobiliser and the alarm. It's a long time since I had mine apart, but there is a ribbon cable that in effect daisy chains all the components together. Mine had a fair number of connectors linking the cables together. You haven't accidentally pulled one of those apart? As I said, it's a ribbon cable, not the large one with the big plug and all the black wires going into the immobiliser.
Edited by ou sont les biscuits on Friday 21st December 17:30
The problems occurred before I took the dash off - I removed the dash partially investigate exactly where the M36 was and also to see what I need to do to replace the Walnut as it is severely cracked and weathered
I'll check the wiring as you say just in case, its more and more sounding like a dead M36! Cheers!
I'll check the wiring as you say just in case, its more and more sounding like a dead M36! Cheers!
Happy New Year all! Having spoken to a very helpful Sam at Abacus alarms, I've gone for a complete plug and play replacement alarm kit including remote boot release, HPA alarm and M36T2 immobiliser. I already have the dash off so am hoping fitting will be fairly straightforward when the replacement kit arrives in the next few days
CHIMPINGPED said:
Happy New Year all! Having spoken to a very helpful Sam at Abacus alarms, I've gone for a complete plug and play replacement alarm kit including remote boot release, HPA alarm and M36T2 immobiliser. I already have the dash off so am hoping fitting will be fairly straightforward when the replacement kit arrives in the next few days
Happy new year to you too. You are doing what I did. Fitting is a piece of piss. The only thing I think you should probably do that I didn't bother with is to replace the immobiliser socket on the steering column shroud, and the trailing wire from that that goes to the immobiliser, only because if anything has been chewing at the wiring as per your earlier post, fitting the one supplied with the kit takes away a potential source of problems. Cheers will definitely do that....and then the real restoration work will begin, the whole interior needs sorting as well as roof. The chassis seems to have survived but I will get that checked out before deciding if I need to go down the body off restoration route - the part of the outrigger that rot are usually the bits you can't see until the body has been raised!
Well worth being sure about the chassis before you start in on the interior. You don't want to be removing seats again and pulling up your freshly glued carpets to get at the body bolts. In particular the ones on top of the tunnel which in most cases involves cutting the carpet to get at them.
Steve
Steve
Update on the immobiliser etc - I ordered the alarm kit from Sam at abacus on a Friday afternoon and it all arrived on the Saturday morning, amazing! After hoovering our acorn shells from where the old immobiliser was (a few furry friends seem to have been living there!!) Fitting was very straightforward having spoken to Sam to check a few things who was extremely helpful. The engine now turns over! Having not started it for many many years the next task is to start checking everything else in the starting process including draining any old bad fuel, checking for spark, fuel pump priming etc.
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