Moving from a "large" engineering company to small one
Discussion
I’m hoping to hear of some experiences of moving from a large (~300 employees) engineering organisation to a something much smaller and home-grown.
Some background: I currently work for a defence contracting company with about 300 staff, with operations throughout the UK, Singapore, Australia, India and a few other far flung places. The company started out around 20 years ago as ten men in a shed, and it has grown and grown, at one point being able to acquire a down-on-its-heels business which had a good name in downstream in the Oil and Gas sector, which really bolstered the staffing levels. I joined as a mechanical engineer 4 years ago. Although engineered products are how we make our name, the higher ups deny we are an engineering firm at all, and instead are a project services company. The leadership would almost certainly prefer to just sub almost all engineering out rather than do it in-house and deal with the risk and the unfortunate need to develop the engineering function.
While the market we operate in is really interesting, the projects large scale, and the opportunity for travel is high, I have unfortunately missed out on much of this excitement through a bit of bad luck in the way that projects were assigned. I made the mistake of shining quite brightly in front of one of our UK customers, and since I have been totally UK-based looking after them, while many of my colleagues get out for great jollies several times a year in Singapore generally living the life I joined up for! But on paper my job sounds really quite impressive (awesome addition to the CV).
Having gone through such rapid growth, the company really struggles with following any kind of decent processes, and the old guard go on about how easy it was to get things done in the good ol’ days, while the newer senior staff are desperately trying to stop dodgy and dangerous practices. As a result it’s a life of constant fire-fighting, missed deadlines and an ever shifting organisational chart. Young, smooth talking go-getter types (of which I may include myself if being honest) are rewarded quite well, but it leads to a level of office politics, greed, back stabbing and nepotism that I have never experienced before. Morale has plummeted along with staff retention.
An opportunity has come up at a tiny company nearby. Their background is: family owned, been around 100 years, very high retention amongst their <20 staff. Their products are far less exciting, but still interesting in their own way. They don’t appear to have any real global presence, but have a good history, are recognised in their field and have recently diversified their product lines into some new and more visible areas.
I'm interviewing there tomorrow. If successful, it would be a bit like going from working on military tanks... to hot water tanks.
I have some concerns over the culture shock of going from such a global company where a million things are going on at once (even though I might have little involvement in them) to a smaller company where the scope is much more focussed on doing one thing well in a team of only 3. I’m also thinking about the pros and cons of this type of company with respect to career progression, development, promotion etc but don't have any frame of reference.
Success and horror stories of those who have made similar moves in either direction would be really appreciated.
PS this isn't my first job - I have worked elsewhere but always in larger scale places with 100+ employees.
Some background: I currently work for a defence contracting company with about 300 staff, with operations throughout the UK, Singapore, Australia, India and a few other far flung places. The company started out around 20 years ago as ten men in a shed, and it has grown and grown, at one point being able to acquire a down-on-its-heels business which had a good name in downstream in the Oil and Gas sector, which really bolstered the staffing levels. I joined as a mechanical engineer 4 years ago. Although engineered products are how we make our name, the higher ups deny we are an engineering firm at all, and instead are a project services company. The leadership would almost certainly prefer to just sub almost all engineering out rather than do it in-house and deal with the risk and the unfortunate need to develop the engineering function.
While the market we operate in is really interesting, the projects large scale, and the opportunity for travel is high, I have unfortunately missed out on much of this excitement through a bit of bad luck in the way that projects were assigned. I made the mistake of shining quite brightly in front of one of our UK customers, and since I have been totally UK-based looking after them, while many of my colleagues get out for great jollies several times a year in Singapore generally living the life I joined up for! But on paper my job sounds really quite impressive (awesome addition to the CV).
Having gone through such rapid growth, the company really struggles with following any kind of decent processes, and the old guard go on about how easy it was to get things done in the good ol’ days, while the newer senior staff are desperately trying to stop dodgy and dangerous practices. As a result it’s a life of constant fire-fighting, missed deadlines and an ever shifting organisational chart. Young, smooth talking go-getter types (of which I may include myself if being honest) are rewarded quite well, but it leads to a level of office politics, greed, back stabbing and nepotism that I have never experienced before. Morale has plummeted along with staff retention.
An opportunity has come up at a tiny company nearby. Their background is: family owned, been around 100 years, very high retention amongst their <20 staff. Their products are far less exciting, but still interesting in their own way. They don’t appear to have any real global presence, but have a good history, are recognised in their field and have recently diversified their product lines into some new and more visible areas.
I'm interviewing there tomorrow. If successful, it would be a bit like going from working on military tanks... to hot water tanks.
I have some concerns over the culture shock of going from such a global company where a million things are going on at once (even though I might have little involvement in them) to a smaller company where the scope is much more focussed on doing one thing well in a team of only 3. I’m also thinking about the pros and cons of this type of company with respect to career progression, development, promotion etc but don't have any frame of reference.
Success and horror stories of those who have made similar moves in either direction would be really appreciated.
PS this isn't my first job - I have worked elsewhere but always in larger scale places with 100+ employees.
300 employees isn’t a big company, in my experience.
Small companies, <20, has many challenges, dependent upon what you do there. You will get involved in everything, whether you like it or not.
You can’t hide.
I wouldn’t bother too much about the size per se; I would be more concerned about where they were going or wanted to go, and how they were planning on getting there.
How many customers do they have?
Are they tied into one industry?
Being cynical….
Why don't people leave? Do they employ people with no drive or ambition?
Is it a family owned company that’s being run (usually badly) for the good of the family and no-one else? Sounds like no – but if a difficult family member arrives, its CV-update time…
Small companies, <20, has many challenges, dependent upon what you do there. You will get involved in everything, whether you like it or not.
You can’t hide.
I wouldn’t bother too much about the size per se; I would be more concerned about where they were going or wanted to go, and how they were planning on getting there.
How many customers do they have?
Are they tied into one industry?
Being cynical….
Why don't people leave? Do they employ people with no drive or ambition?
Is it a family owned company that’s being run (usually badly) for the good of the family and no-one else? Sounds like no – but if a difficult family member arrives, its CV-update time…
I did exactly that. 18 years ago I moved from a large multinational company to a 10 man small family owned local business.
I was doing very well, travelling the world, working on interesting projects etc, etc, etc. But I was dealing with company politics, waiting for ages for major decisions to be rubber stamped and was getting frustrated. I was working hard and lots of hours to deliver projects on time and being successful at it but never felt appreciated…..except when I handed my notice when various offers to keep me were made.
But I’d made my mind up
.
I joined the small local company (big wage and perk cut at the time) to help move them into new areas of business using my skills to help set up new manufacturing processes. Now I'm the MD. 10 people when I started to 30+ now and growing and I've been a big part in every step of the way. 100% Job satisfaction, brilliant work/ life balance, more of a laugh as no corporate bulls
t to deal with I could go on.
It is a gamble but at the time of the move I was a single lad approaching 30 so if it went wrong I had nothing to lose. Now with a family, mortgage, financial responsibilities etc. It would be a harder decision to make.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
I was doing very well, travelling the world, working on interesting projects etc, etc, etc. But I was dealing with company politics, waiting for ages for major decisions to be rubber stamped and was getting frustrated. I was working hard and lots of hours to deliver projects on time and being successful at it but never felt appreciated…..except when I handed my notice when various offers to keep me were made.
But I’d made my mind up
.
I joined the small local company (big wage and perk cut at the time) to help move them into new areas of business using my skills to help set up new manufacturing processes. Now I'm the MD. 10 people when I started to 30+ now and growing and I've been a big part in every step of the way. 100% Job satisfaction, brilliant work/ life balance, more of a laugh as no corporate bulls
t to deal with I could go on. It is a gamble but at the time of the move I was a single lad approaching 30 so if it went wrong I had nothing to lose. Now with a family, mortgage, financial responsibilities etc. It would be a harder decision to make.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Can I ask, JFD/DIVEX?
I've worked for some O&G companies with thousands of employees most of them have not been that great to work for. Very heavy on process work and very little room to be pro-active.
I currently work for a company with 13 people (only been here a month), my last employer had 45 people and the engineering part of it was great, very flexible and did what was required to get the job done. That in itself is very rewarding.
I've worked for some O&G companies with thousands of employees most of them have not been that great to work for. Very heavy on process work and very little room to be pro-active.
I currently work for a company with 13 people (only been here a month), my last employer had 45 people and the engineering part of it was great, very flexible and did what was required to get the job done. That in itself is very rewarding.
bucksmanuk said:
300 employees isn’t a big company, in my experience.
Small companies, <20, has many challenges, dependent upon what you do there. You will get involved in everything, whether you like it or not.
You can’t hide.
I wouldn’t bother too much about the size per se; I would be more concerned about where they were going or wanted to go, and how they were planning on getting there.
How many customers do they have?
Are they tied into one industry?
Being cynical….
Why don't people leave? Do they employ people with no drive or ambition?
Is it a family owned company that’s being run (usually badly) for the good of the family and no-one else? Sounds like no – but if a difficult family member arrives, its CV-update time…
Can't add much to that, mirrors my experience almost exactly.Small companies, <20, has many challenges, dependent upon what you do there. You will get involved in everything, whether you like it or not.
You can’t hide.
I wouldn’t bother too much about the size per se; I would be more concerned about where they were going or wanted to go, and how they were planning on getting there.
How many customers do they have?
Are they tied into one industry?
Being cynical….
Why don't people leave? Do they employ people with no drive or ambition?
Is it a family owned company that’s being run (usually badly) for the good of the family and no-one else? Sounds like no – but if a difficult family member arrives, its CV-update time…
Master (jack!) of all trades general electronics designer Noise went from auto electronics (multinational corp., 1000s of employees) to 7 person educational science supplier. I loved knowing everything that was going on. Lamp blown in the bog - replace it. Very market sensitive - went down to a three day week so left. Nonetheless a great 9 years or so.
One thing to be aware of: large or small company colleagues can be competent/congenial (or the reverse) at every/any level just the same!
bucksmanuk said:
300 employees isn’t a big company, in my experience.
OP - the 20 man companies may have even less informal processes than you are used to.
Also with a 20 man company be careful, you may be helping out 'as needed' so may spend time doing things other than your actual profession.
Lastly, corporate jollies such as the trips to Singapore you mentioned, are overrated. You would be better getting a pay rise and paying for your own improved holidays.
Go meet the new company, spend a full day with them and then decide. You have said you have been with current employer for 4 years, so probably due a change.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff