"Classics" for silly money

[Jukebag]

We all know the market is very inflated at the moment, with the more sought after classics fetching very high prices, but why are we getting people selling 80s and 90s mundane yesterday shopping trolley motors, which back in the day no-one liked as they were terrible, for silly money, not big money but certainly not the money that a 20 or 30 plus year old hatchback should be worth. Plenty of Austin Metro's, Ford Fiestas (just the average model not anything like a XR2), 1980s Volvos, Rover's selling for anything from a grand to 5k. Just seen a 1988 Volvo 240 with 80,000 miles for just under £6,000, and an Austin Metro City for £1600, granted it does state 1 owner and only done 13,000 mls from new. Yet, these cars fetch more than a Scimitar, which imo is far more worthy a classic than some 80s shopping trolley Austin Metro or Fiesta.

[Trevor555]

It's an area of the "modern classics" I follow myself.

I guess it's because people are buying them and paying the money.

I see plenty of them advertised for some time so I guess the dealers are happy to just sit on them until they sell.

One attraction for the dealers is that they can fill half their site with these cars and they don't suffer from book drops every month like the modern cars do.

I recently sold my very low mileage Z3.

I stuck it up for what I felt was all the money for it and guess what?

A dealer came and bought it, didn't even knock me down.

Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 31st December 22:19

[Paracetamol]

supply and demand...there are very few mundane 80s cars around whereas things like Scimintars and MGs were still paid attention even when nearly worthless

[vpr]

Paracetamol said:

supply and demand...there are very few mundane 80s cars around whereas things like Scimintars and MGs were still paid attention even when nearly worthless

Exactly, as simple as that

[Jukebag]

Even a rust bucket like an MGB fetch more than a good old reliable, much more practical Reliant Scimitar, yet MGBs are common as muck in the classic car world; more chance of seeing an MGB driving around on a daily basis, at a car show, etc than your are with a Scimitar. So why don't Scimitars get the same appreciation in terms of value?. I suppose some people feel they're not "cool" enough to be driven without people thinking you live on a council estate. I suppose it's the image thing and keeping up with the Jones': convertible MGB equals "hes doing well for himself" vs Scimitar equals "I bet he drives a Reliant Robin as well" lol.

And why anyone would want to spend 2 or 3 grand on a 1980s Austin Metro, a car which naturally through depreciation of value over those years should make it worthless today, is beyond me. But those selling know some are mental in the head for a piece of that 1980s nostalgia to bring back home their youth, when their aunt would visit in their shopping trolley Metro.

Edited by Jukebag on Monday 7th January 13:36

[deltashad]

There's gonna be a shift in the market. Personally right now I wouldn't be investing unless it was something I wanted to keep.

[brucky74]

Pedestrian Classics don’t do it for me either. I had a metro when I was 17 years old I hated it back then. However I loved the old fast 1980's W126 Mercs back in the day, and I now drive one as my daily and I am never disappointed. But to some individuals an 80's Fiesta obviously floats their boat & beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Scimitars have never struck me as been a bit Council. They have always struck me as being driven by individuals or those who are slightly quirky or of left of field. When new they were expensive cars to buy. I’ve had a number of Scimitars and still drive a 1967 Coupe with a V6 Essex engine. Very few other cars can deliver the performance & thrill for the money. You hardly see any at car shows. When people approach they are amazed that its built by the same company as the Robin. Scimitars are now fetching stronger money, see below, which is a shame.

http://www.percivalmotorco.co.uk/1967_Reliant_Coup...

£19,000

https://www.barons-auctions.com/view-lot/2766/for-...

£13,750

Edited by brucky74 on Thursday 10th January 15:01

[geeman237]

brucky74 said:

. Scimitars are now fetching stronger money, see below, which is a shame.

Edited by brucky74 on Thursday 10th January 15:01

But is it a shame? If the values are going up then it means some folks can justify spending a bit more than a shoestring budget on them just to keep them running and actually have a really nice Scimitar. I might be sounding as though I am speaking out of turn here, but I'll throw out a theory that a lot of Scimitar owners (not from new or in period) are former Robin owners who had Scimitar aspirations, and can now just about afford a Scimitar, but still have a Robin budget/spending mentality. They then stay in that doldrums 1500-3000 pounds price range. A big bill comes up, say an engine rebuild and the car is sold on (cheap), next owner pulls an old Essex out the shed, gets it running again, new MoT etc, boom, the axle goes, rinse and repeat.

[tapkaJohnD]

The London ULEZ - Ultra Low Emissions Zone - that will come into effect soon will ban anything that doesn't comply with Euro 4 (petrol, 2006) or 6 (diesel, 2014), except if it is registered as a 'historic vehicle'. As there are people who will pay 'silly money' for a London house, no doubt they will pay even sillier money fopr a nice classic to drive to and from their pied a terre.

Could this be a facator in rising classic prices?
J

[Trevor555]

tapkaJohnD said:

Could this be a facator in rising classic prices?
J

I was told that there's no inheritance tax on classic vehicles.

No idea if that's actually true, or just pub talk.... Anyone?

That could explain the investment in the high priced ones.

[anonymous-user]

You do pay inheritance tax on classic cars.
There is no capital gains tax though.

[Trevor555]

desolate said:

You do pay inheritance tax on classic cars.
There is no capital gains tax though.

Thank you, clears that one up in my mind.

[Jukebag]

Inheritance tax on classic cars?. Inheritance tax on anything thats rightfully yours that you earned is clearly theft imo. The govt has no right to any of it, whether it's from inheritance of a house or from a car. Theiving banksters, whom by the way for those who aren't aware, create money out of thin air, lend that money then charge interest. I bet you wont hear that TV money "expert" Martin Lewis mention that.

[brucky74]

Robin owners were either very young and hard-up and used it as a transition to a motor bike or it was used as a sort of mobility aid. I don’t think any of them would have contemplated moving up to a Scimitar. To speculate and make serious money (unless your a trader shifting volume) in classics in most cases it’s made at the higher end of the market, unless your lucky. As stated you don’t pay capital gains on classic cars nor art and that always been the case, which partly helps sustains the market. In the past 20 years blokes have got fed up of putting in 5 10 or 20 grand in the bank to get SFA in returns or potentially lose it altogether. Art has also been suppressed over the long term with classic cars steadily rising. Classic cars are a piece of kinetic art, but a lot more fun. The growth of the internet has made a massive impact on rising values when looking at/for classic cars. The availability of spare parts on the net has now significantly changed the classic car ownership experience. Previously you would have spent a whole weekend in a stty field trying to find a sprocket as your classic was in dry dock. The Discovery Channel & Dave (neither based on reality) have also made a big impact on classics and the desirability of owning one over the last 15 years.

Edited by brucky74 on Thursday 10th January 23:20

Edited by brucky74 on Thursday 10th January 23:22

Edited by brucky74 on Thursday 10th January 23:24

[Jukebag]

You're right there about Robin (or Reliant 3 wheelers) owners buying them for mainly those reasons, as you say either they're hard up or using them to progress onto a motorbike. My uncle pretty much did the same, albeit going from using a motorbike to then buying his Rialto (bought from new) as a 3 wheeler was the only car he could drive on a motorbike license and also very economical and practical. Sadly said 3 wheeler has been neglected just sitting in his back yard for the past 20 plus years. God knows how many miles it did, but I can't imagine it being very many. They must be pretty rare now, maybe even rarer than the Del Boy Regal Supervan.

[Benbay001]

Jukebag said:

Inheritance tax on classic cars?. Inheritance tax on anything thats rightfully yours that you earned is clearly theft imo. The govt has no right to any of it, whether it's from inheritance of a house or from a car. Theiving banksters, whom by the way for those who aren't aware, create money out of thin air, lend that money then charge interest. I bet you wont hear that TV money "expert" Martin Lewis mention that.

Sorry to join in without contributing to the topic matter but I want to make the point that inheritance tax is a tax on someone who no longer needs ANY money.

All taxes take money that you rightfully earned, so if inheritance wasn't taxed, something else would need to be taxed to cover the shortfall and what better than money that is no longer needed?

Its not as though the government take it and burn it is it? It may be spent inefficiently, but it gets spent on something.

The inheritance tax threshold is so high that even if you have a few siblings to split it between youre still going to be left with multiples of the average Brits annual income in one lump.

As you were.

[millen]

Well said, Benbay001. At the risk of being trite, the nation has a choice of taxing money and other assets A. when they move (ie transact), or B. when they sit still.

A. is rightly or wrongly felt to be by far the simplest and fairest option. It underlies: income tax, VAT, corporation tax, stamp duty....... and of course IHT. B. is far rarer - council tax being the best known example. Some would favour a move to system B., but the complexities of any form of wealth tax are horrendous.

Whether CGT could be levied on classic motors in a post-Brexit/ election emergency budget is doubtful. Sure it's logical (and would certainly deflate the bubble), but the practicalities are immense (retrospection, allowance for maintenance.....) so I guess whenever they look at it the Treasury policy-makers conclude it's just too difficult for the revenue raised. OK, most owners of serious classics will be in the IHT bracket, so the government will claim they trouser some tax eventually (if they forget about all the IHT exemption devices).

[V8 Fettler]

Benbay001 said:

Jukebag said:

Inheritance tax on classic cars?. Inheritance tax on anything thats rightfully yours that you earned is clearly theft imo. The govt has no right to any of it, whether it's from inheritance of a house or from a car. Theiving banksters, whom by the way for those who aren't aware, create money out of thin air, lend that money then charge interest. I bet you wont hear that TV money "expert" Martin Lewis mention that.

Sorry to join in without contributing to the topic matter but I want to make the point that inheritance tax is a tax on someone who no longer needs ANY money.

All taxes take money that you rightfully earned, so if inheritance wasn't taxed, something else would need to be taxed to cover the shortfall and what better than money that is no longer needed?

Its not as though the government take it and burn it is it? It may be spent inefficiently, but it gets spent on something.

The inheritance tax threshold is so high that even if you have a few siblings to split it between youre still going to be left with multiples of the average Brits annual income in one lump.

As you were.

How about improving efficiency in the public sector to eliminate the shortfall?

Scimitars are always tarnished by the plastic image.

[RichB]

Totally agree with the comments about IHT. Incidentally the tax is levied on the value of the estate not the person or people inheriting the proceeds so it's irrelevant how many beneficiaries (siblings were mentioned) there are. It is currently 40% on everything over £325k however in the case of a married couple (which is usual) the remaining individual benefits from their ex-spouses's allowance meaning an estate over £650k would be liable to IHT.

[POORCARDEALER]

You would laugh at some of the stuff I get offered by people who think they are driving a "classic" when the reality is they are driving an old end of life car....a few examples from last few weeks

Volvo 440
Jaguar XJ8 2001 (nice car, but not a classic car)
1990 fiesta popular


The sellers have convinced themselves they have the holy grail.