What car - MX5 vs FiST vs GT86
Discussion
Hi All,
Whilst I'm not looking to replace my car any time soon, the arrival of the new Fiesta ST (FiST to Ford geeks) and the improvements for the 2019 MX5 RF have got me going back and forth on deciding what to get next. I've always had the GT86 looming in the back of my mind too given it's almost perfect in every way aside from the lack of torque and the gruff engine note which has kept putting me off.
I've read seemingly everything on the internet comparing these cars but it's hard to draw any conclusion on what would be the most fun as a daily which is what I'm hoping someone could shed some experienced light on here. So many seem to rate the Fiesta as more fun due to it's more aggressive setup and not being able to fully exploit RWD on the road anyway. But an equal number seem to say it can never be as much fun as a dedicated RWD sports car. I suspect that whilst the GT86 and maybe the MX5 might be more fun than the FiST on the perfect B road, they might be much less fun the rest of the time making them not worth it. If I had the time and money to do track days this dilemma would be a lot less clear cut, but I don't.
So the pros and cons for each seem to me as follows:
2019 MX5 pros
- Best engine to rev out
- RWD (usefull if I ever manage to do the odd track day at some point in the future too)
- Most lightweight
- Option to have the roof down (nice but not too fussed about this)
- Best power to weight
- Best looking (to my eyes)
- NA
2019 MX5 cons
- Inevitable rust
- Direct injection only (no coking up reported as yet but it's a risk)
- Limited practicality means tetris for weekends away
- Rolls around in the corners
- Sports cars occasionally seem to bring out the worst in other people for some reason (as experienced in my old 350z)
2018 FiST pros
- Low down torque supposedly makes regular driving more fun
- Discreet
- Lowest purchase cost relative to age/mileage
- Most economical
- Direct and port injected
- Best corrosion protection
- Quetest on the motorway
- Below 8/10ths driving character feels the most special in terms of fastest steering and most 'informative' suspension
2018 FiST cons
- Engine runs out of puff at the top end
- FWD
- It's a Fiesta
- Likely to be very common
- Average looks
- Likely to be the least reliable
- Overly aggressive steering self-centering
GT86 pros
- Best handling out of the box
- RWD
- Relatively rare
- Direct & port injected
- Feels special
- Best steering/gearchange
- N/A
GT86 cons
- Least economical
- Engine doesn't sound the best (big drawback to me)
- Lack of torque
Please only post if you have or know someone who has experience of at least two of these cars. Definitely please don't post to say how these cars aren't comparable due to being hard top/wrong wheel drive/too impractical etc as non of these things are deal breakers to me given we have a more practical car in the household anyway and no kids.
Thanks in advance!
Whilst I'm not looking to replace my car any time soon, the arrival of the new Fiesta ST (FiST to Ford geeks) and the improvements for the 2019 MX5 RF have got me going back and forth on deciding what to get next. I've always had the GT86 looming in the back of my mind too given it's almost perfect in every way aside from the lack of torque and the gruff engine note which has kept putting me off.
I've read seemingly everything on the internet comparing these cars but it's hard to draw any conclusion on what would be the most fun as a daily which is what I'm hoping someone could shed some experienced light on here. So many seem to rate the Fiesta as more fun due to it's more aggressive setup and not being able to fully exploit RWD on the road anyway. But an equal number seem to say it can never be as much fun as a dedicated RWD sports car. I suspect that whilst the GT86 and maybe the MX5 might be more fun than the FiST on the perfect B road, they might be much less fun the rest of the time making them not worth it. If I had the time and money to do track days this dilemma would be a lot less clear cut, but I don't.
So the pros and cons for each seem to me as follows:
2019 MX5 pros
- Best engine to rev out
- RWD (usefull if I ever manage to do the odd track day at some point in the future too)
- Most lightweight
- Option to have the roof down (nice but not too fussed about this)
- Best power to weight
- Best looking (to my eyes)
- NA
2019 MX5 cons
- Inevitable rust
- Direct injection only (no coking up reported as yet but it's a risk)
- Limited practicality means tetris for weekends away
- Rolls around in the corners
- Sports cars occasionally seem to bring out the worst in other people for some reason (as experienced in my old 350z)
2018 FiST pros
- Low down torque supposedly makes regular driving more fun
- Discreet
- Lowest purchase cost relative to age/mileage
- Most economical
- Direct and port injected
- Best corrosion protection
- Quetest on the motorway
- Below 8/10ths driving character feels the most special in terms of fastest steering and most 'informative' suspension
2018 FiST cons
- Engine runs out of puff at the top end
- FWD
- It's a Fiesta
- Likely to be very common
- Average looks
- Likely to be the least reliable
- Overly aggressive steering self-centering
GT86 pros
- Best handling out of the box
- RWD
- Relatively rare
- Direct & port injected
- Feels special
- Best steering/gearchange
- N/A
GT86 cons
- Least economical
- Engine doesn't sound the best (big drawback to me)
- Lack of torque
Please only post if you have or know someone who has experience of at least two of these cars. Definitely please don't post to say how these cars aren't comparable due to being hard top/wrong wheel drive/too impractical etc as non of these things are deal breakers to me given we have a more practical car in the household anyway and no kids.
Thanks in advance!
Edited by VeeFource on Thursday 3rd January 13:34
sparkyhx said:
Funk said:
I'm sure I won't be the only one who was thinking,"....what the f
k is a 'FiST'....?"
My first thought as well, I'm guessing Fiesta ST, but could be wrongk is a 'FiST'....?"Why do you think the Fiesta will be the least reliable? I had my mark VII ST for 2.5 years and nothing went wrong with it apart from a pipe in the engine bay coming loose, which was sorted out at the next service. It was cheap to run and masses of fun. I'd have another. I'm hoping that the new one become available on a cheap(er) finance deal later in the year...
I have a lot of MX5 experience in a previous model and I do fancy a GT86. Anyway here are my thoughts;
2019 MX5 cons
- Inevitable rust.
I don't know if its inevitable but you can get it undersealed and injected with wax at a specialist. I think I paid something like £350 at the MX5 Restorer for this (highly recommend them btw).
- Rolls around in the corners
How much would posh adjustable suspension be?
- Sports cars occasionally seem to bring out the worst in other people for some reason (as experienced in my old 350z)
I haven't experienced this in an MX5.
GT86 cons
- Engine doesn't sound the best (big drawback to me)
Would an after market exhaust fix this for you?
- Lack of torque
I gather there are engine upgrades for this.
Anyway - its a nice choice to make - enjoy :-)
2019 MX5 cons
- Inevitable rust.
I don't know if its inevitable but you can get it undersealed and injected with wax at a specialist. I think I paid something like £350 at the MX5 Restorer for this (highly recommend them btw).
- Rolls around in the corners
How much would posh adjustable suspension be?
- Sports cars occasionally seem to bring out the worst in other people for some reason (as experienced in my old 350z)
I haven't experienced this in an MX5.
GT86 cons
- Engine doesn't sound the best (big drawback to me)
Would an after market exhaust fix this for you?
- Lack of torque
I gather there are engine upgrades for this.
Anyway - its a nice choice to make - enjoy :-)
If it was my own money I'd go with the MX5. If you spec a sport model you get the sport suspension that sorts out some of the roll in the corners and compared to the GT86 the inside is IMO much nicer (as long as you're under 6ft 2).
That said, all 3 cars will all be excellent fun to drive and I honestly don't think you could separate them in terms of reliability. Fiesta would be my least preferred, as you point out they are common and my preference is for RWD.
Have you considered an Abarth 124? I'm driving one at the moment and compared to the MX5 you get a lot (lot!) more noise and a turbo for that low down grunt, although it doesn't rev like an MX5 does and probably doesn't look as good. Inside it's better equipped than an MX5. Prices are higher but there's often pretty tempting deals on offer from dealers whereas I rarely see them for the MX5.
That said, all 3 cars will all be excellent fun to drive and I honestly don't think you could separate them in terms of reliability. Fiesta would be my least preferred, as you point out they are common and my preference is for RWD.
Have you considered an Abarth 124? I'm driving one at the moment and compared to the MX5 you get a lot (lot!) more noise and a turbo for that low down grunt, although it doesn't rev like an MX5 does and probably doesn't look as good. Inside it's better equipped than an MX5. Prices are higher but there's often pretty tempting deals on offer from dealers whereas I rarely see them for the MX5.
gashead1105 said:
Why do you think the Fiesta will be the least reliable? I had my mark VII ST for 2.5 years and nothing went wrong with it apart from a pipe in the engine bay coming loose, which was sorted out at the next service. It was cheap to run and masses of fun. I'd have another. I'm hoping that the new one become available on a cheap(er) finance deal later in the year...
There's a recall for those engines (yours is a Fiesta I assume?) for cracking heads which leads to fire. Ford also haven't enjoyed much success with the 1.0 three cylinder ecoboosts either what with all the coolant pipe failures etc. I believe the 1.5 is a completely different engine but Ford will need to have upped their game to ensure their reputation doesn't worsen. I really hope it does prove to be a reliable unit but given it's also got cylinder deactivation which is new tech for ford it will have it's work cut out.Croutons said:
"lnevitable rust" on a 2019 MX5..?
Where are you driving, under the sea?
Mazda not rustproofing the MX5 to the same standard as their mainstream cars is a well know issue in MX5 circles. Japanese cars in general don't tend to fair as well as others against corrosion anyway, largely due to the fact they don't salt their roads so are less driven about it. So the GT86 isn't great in this respect either but MX5s are definitely at the worse end of the scale unfortunately.Where are you driving, under the sea?
Owners can get thier cars treated (as another poster has pointed out) but having had this done to my old BMW E36 by a very reputable company it still didn't fair that well simply as it's next to impossible to treat everywhere inside the chassis properly.
Edited by VeeFource on Thursday 3rd January 14:57
Have you ever run a drop top?
If you haven't then I'd say MX5, just to try that out. I have an MX5 and genuinely had the roof down more often than not. I'd also consider the normal convertible rather than RF unless you're worried about people slashing the roof?
No experience of the other two. For me though I'd buy the MX5 unless I had to have four seats. Fiesta if it had to be a hatch. GT 86 if four seats but small boot opening ok.
If you haven't then I'd say MX5, just to try that out. I have an MX5 and genuinely had the roof down more often than not. I'd also consider the normal convertible rather than RF unless you're worried about people slashing the roof?
No experience of the other two. For me though I'd buy the MX5 unless I had to have four seats. Fiesta if it had to be a hatch. GT 86 if four seats but small boot opening ok.
Scottr89 said:
I had this exact same dilema in summer, however when I went to test drive a GT86 straight after driving the MX5 there was a Yaris GRMN sat in the corner. I took it for a drive and loved it, really engaging drive that rivalled the DC2 Intergra it replaced. If you can find one try it!
That's a great suggestion! The GRMN is probably closest in spirit to the rawness of a mk1 Suzuki Swift Sport which has been the most fun car I've got to drive a lot. The fuel economy wouldn't be so great and can't imagine hoe much you'd be looking at for soare parts. But it ticks all the other boxes and is quite a special car without being flashy.What are your thoughts on this twin test: https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general/ford-fies...
Would have thought the ST would feel too refined to win this test so was surprised at the result.
MX5.
Fiesta is too 'normal', great car by all accounts but it is a sensible choice. That can always wait for the future when practicality is more important. It'll depreciate the most and also most likely to be nicked (of the 3 choices).
GT86 is fantastic but the engines have not proven to be as reliable as hoped. Rear seats not really suitable for humans so really you're left with a two seater which is slower and more expensive to run than the MX5.
MX5 is awesome in every iteration but I really like it in the ND. Sports models have an LSD and Bilsteins so body roll not too bad, especially if you aren't going to drive it on a track. Very nice inside and it's fun driving it at any speed. Drive one with the top down on a sunny day and there isn't a better car in the universe. You will be grinning from ear to ear. Also the Bose stereo (with speakers in the headrest) is the cherry on the cake.
Slight issue for me is my height, all MX5's are a real struggle for me with my head always touching the roof which is uncomfortable. I therefore hope to buy an NB or NC and fit tasteful bucket seats as otherwise the car is fantastic.
Fiesta is too 'normal', great car by all accounts but it is a sensible choice. That can always wait for the future when practicality is more important. It'll depreciate the most and also most likely to be nicked (of the 3 choices).
GT86 is fantastic but the engines have not proven to be as reliable as hoped. Rear seats not really suitable for humans so really you're left with a two seater which is slower and more expensive to run than the MX5.
MX5 is awesome in every iteration but I really like it in the ND. Sports models have an LSD and Bilsteins so body roll not too bad, especially if you aren't going to drive it on a track. Very nice inside and it's fun driving it at any speed. Drive one with the top down on a sunny day and there isn't a better car in the universe. You will be grinning from ear to ear. Also the Bose stereo (with speakers in the headrest) is the cherry on the cake.
Slight issue for me is my height, all MX5's are a real struggle for me with my head always touching the roof which is uncomfortable. I therefore hope to buy an NB or NC and fit tasteful bucket seats as otherwise the car is fantastic.
VeeFource said:
Scottr89 said:
I had this exact same dilema in summer, however when I went to test drive a GT86 straight after driving the MX5 there was a Yaris GRMN sat in the corner. I took it for a drive and loved it, really engaging drive that rivalled the DC2 Intergra it replaced. If you can find one try it!
That's a great suggestion! The GRMN is probably closest in spirit to the rawness of a mk1 Suzuki Swift Sport which has been the most fun car I've got to drive a lot. The fuel economy wouldn't be so great and can't imagine hoe much you'd be looking at for soare parts. But it ticks all the other boxes and is quite a special car without being flashy.What are your thoughts on this twin test: https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general/ford-fies...
Would have thought the ST would feel too refined to win this test so was surprised at the result.
I've had mine for 4 months and love going out for a drive just for the sake of it! Fuel is good IMO too managing around 35MPG, only thing I will complain about is the small fuel tank, about 250 mile range!
A lot of the reviews have moaned about the high prices, but I was able to haggle £5k off the list price. Forged BBS alloys and Torsen diffs aren't cheap so I thought it was quite good value, compared to rivals.
I'm not a fan of modern turbocharged engines so The Fiesta ST wasn't on my shortlist and never considered.
Edited by Scottr89 on Thursday 3rd January 17:47
Benrad said:
Have you ever run a drop top?
If you haven't then I'd say MX5, just to try that out. I have an MX5 and genuinely had the roof down more often than not. I'd also consider the normal convertible rather than RF unless you're worried about people slashing the roof?
No experience of the other two. For me though I'd buy the MX5 unless I had to have four seats. Fiesta if it had to be a hatch. GT 86 if four seats but small boot opening ok.
There's the security threat on the rag top but also the wind noise on the motorway which is why I'm thinking RF. The extra weight is a slight downer but I read the low speed buffeting problem can be much improved by taking the clear plastic deflector out.If you haven't then I'd say MX5, just to try that out. I have an MX5 and genuinely had the roof down more often than not. I'd also consider the normal convertible rather than RF unless you're worried about people slashing the roof?
No experience of the other two. For me though I'd buy the MX5 unless I had to have four seats. Fiesta if it had to be a hatch. GT 86 if four seats but small boot opening ok.
Bumblebee7 said:
MX5.
Fiesta is too 'normal', great car by all accounts but it is a sensible choice. That can always wait for the future when practicality is more important. It'll depreciate the most and also most likely to be nicked (of the 3 choices).
GT86 is fantastic but the engines have not proven to be as reliable as hoped. Rear seats not really suitable for humans so really you're left with a two seater which is slower and more expensive to run than the MX5.
MX5 is awesome in every iteration but I really like it in the ND. Sports models have an LSD and Bilsteins so body roll not too bad, especially if you aren't going to drive it on a track. Very nice inside and it's fun driving it at any speed. Drive one with the top down on a sunny day and there isn't a better car in the universe. You will be grinning from ear to ear. Also the Bose stereo (with speakers in the headrest) is the cherry on the cake.
Slight issue for me is my height, all MX5's are a real struggle for me with my head always touching the roof which is uncomfortable. I therefore hope to buy an NB or NC and fit tasteful bucket seats as otherwise the car is fantastic.
Good post, cheers. It would be an ST2 if it were the Fiesta partly to avoid the keyless security issues. But I read somewhere the lesser models still have keyless ignition so not much better in that regard. So yeah, possibly leaning towards the MX5 currently, especially if the roll isn't too bad.Fiesta is too 'normal', great car by all accounts but it is a sensible choice. That can always wait for the future when practicality is more important. It'll depreciate the most and also most likely to be nicked (of the 3 choices).
GT86 is fantastic but the engines have not proven to be as reliable as hoped. Rear seats not really suitable for humans so really you're left with a two seater which is slower and more expensive to run than the MX5.
MX5 is awesome in every iteration but I really like it in the ND. Sports models have an LSD and Bilsteins so body roll not too bad, especially if you aren't going to drive it on a track. Very nice inside and it's fun driving it at any speed. Drive one with the top down on a sunny day and there isn't a better car in the universe. You will be grinning from ear to ear. Also the Bose stereo (with speakers in the headrest) is the cherry on the cake.
Slight issue for me is my height, all MX5's are a real struggle for me with my head always touching the roof which is uncomfortable. I therefore hope to buy an NB or NC and fit tasteful bucket seats as otherwise the car is fantastic.
I have owned a Mk7 Fiesta ST and a GT86 Aero.
The Fiesta was a great all rounder, it was quick, composed and still returned 40mpg without even trying, the new one sounds even better. The downside for me was the build quality in places and the fact it was so so common. It didn't feel special.
The GT86 was a great looker, everyone loved it. I have to admit though, driving it could be frustrating. Firstly the gearbox was overly notchy and secondly the engine lacks character, 200bhp is enough in theory, look at Honda Integra's and the old Civic Type R's (EP3), the difference was those engines have real character with vtec which made the engine and the way it delivered it's power feel special and unique. The GT86 power delivery is dull and the redline too low. Oh and MPG was around 30.
If I was looking for a new daily now with a budget of around £20k I would probably go for the Fiesta........unless I could find a Yaris GRMN for similar money.
The Fiesta was a great all rounder, it was quick, composed and still returned 40mpg without even trying, the new one sounds even better. The downside for me was the build quality in places and the fact it was so so common. It didn't feel special.
The GT86 was a great looker, everyone loved it. I have to admit though, driving it could be frustrating. Firstly the gearbox was overly notchy and secondly the engine lacks character, 200bhp is enough in theory, look at Honda Integra's and the old Civic Type R's (EP3), the difference was those engines have real character with vtec which made the engine and the way it delivered it's power feel special and unique. The GT86 power delivery is dull and the redline too low. Oh and MPG was around 30.
If I was looking for a new daily now with a budget of around £20k I would probably go for the Fiesta........unless I could find a Yaris GRMN for similar money.
mnaylor said:
I have owned a Mk7 Fiesta ST and a GT86 Aero.
The Fiesta was a great all rounder, it was quick, composed and still returned 40mpg without even trying, the new one sounds even better. The downside for me was the build quality in places and the fact it was so so common. It didn't feel special.
The GT86 was a great looker, everyone loved it. I have to admit though, driving it could be frustrating. Firstly the gearbox was overly notchy and secondly the engine lacks character, 200bhp is enough in theory, look at Honda Integra's and the old Civic Type R's (EP3), the difference was those engines have real character with vtec which made the engine and the way it delivered it's power feel special and unique. The GT86 power delivery is dull and the redline too low. Oh and MPG was around 30.
If I was looking for a new daily now with a budget of around £20k I would probably go for the Fiesta........unless I could find a Yaris GRMN for similar money.
I guess the MX5 might fit between the other two quite nicely with respect to the points you mentioned. As for the GRMN, I was surprised to see there's quite a few for sale on Autotrader, though not sure 12% of the 100 that came to the UK being up for sale is necessarily a good thing given many seem cheaper than when new.The Fiesta was a great all rounder, it was quick, composed and still returned 40mpg without even trying, the new one sounds even better. The downside for me was the build quality in places and the fact it was so so common. It didn't feel special.
The GT86 was a great looker, everyone loved it. I have to admit though, driving it could be frustrating. Firstly the gearbox was overly notchy and secondly the engine lacks character, 200bhp is enough in theory, look at Honda Integra's and the old Civic Type R's (EP3), the difference was those engines have real character with vtec which made the engine and the way it delivered it's power feel special and unique. The GT86 power delivery is dull and the redline too low. Oh and MPG was around 30.
If I was looking for a new daily now with a budget of around £20k I would probably go for the Fiesta........unless I could find a Yaris GRMN for similar money.
underphil said:
I found the mpg for the GT86 is only bad when comparing official figures, real world was pretty good, easily 40 mpg if staying off the throttle
As for the sound, in all three you are listening to the generated sound of a symposer! - maybe others do it better than Toyota though
The GT86 sound is an odd thing. It sounds great in some ways and terrible in others, hard to draw a conclusion on. I suppose at least with the jap cars the symposers are mechanical meaning they can be altered by doing the foam or even delete mods. That would be next to impossible with the electronic Fiesta version.As for the sound, in all three you are listening to the generated sound of a symposer! - maybe others do it better than Toyota though
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