City of London - strategy to reduce m/cyc's - consultation
Discussion
Hi All
The City of London transport / planning dept is undertaking a strategy consultation (closing Jan 13th) where they are looking to implement a range of measures with potentially significant effects on the ability to commute by motorcycle / scooter into and around the City including:
- further reductions in traffic vols incl identifying opportunities to reduce on street parking for motorbikes as well as cars
- ‘vision zero’ strategy, reducing speed limits to 15mph
- targeting future zero emissions restrictions (over and above the ultra low emissions regs which apply to congestion charging zone from April 19)
The ability to commute by motorcycle is critical to those for whom public transport is not a viable or attractive option. It is highly disappointing that they are not better differentiating between motorbikes (with substantial congestion and pollution benefits) and other forms of transport.
There are a number of concerns here, including among others that they set precedent for other boroughs, but also massively complicate the road transport network in London with a range of varying rules and regs that people will not be familiar with, but will be fined for breaching. Bank Junction has been closed to most forms of road traffic 7am-7pm since May '17 and generated over 200k individual fines in the first year costing road users tens of millions - and continues to do so as I understand it.
The message back from the City’s transport team has been that they need feedback to know motorcycling is important - their last survey received 2000 responses in total (they ignore the point that this is statistically insignificant vs # of daily commuters). few of which were from the motorcycling community - so a few responses can make a difference.
If you have the opportunity, the survey of main proposals is here and closes Jan 13th:
https://www.citystreets.london/proposals/key-propo...
You can either provide detailed responses or just say support / don’t support if that’s all you have time for.
If you know anyone else that might be interested in responding, pls pass on.
If helpful to discuss any of the items / thoughts on responses happy to.
The City of London transport / planning dept is undertaking a strategy consultation (closing Jan 13th) where they are looking to implement a range of measures with potentially significant effects on the ability to commute by motorcycle / scooter into and around the City including:
- further reductions in traffic vols incl identifying opportunities to reduce on street parking for motorbikes as well as cars
- ‘vision zero’ strategy, reducing speed limits to 15mph
- targeting future zero emissions restrictions (over and above the ultra low emissions regs which apply to congestion charging zone from April 19)
The ability to commute by motorcycle is critical to those for whom public transport is not a viable or attractive option. It is highly disappointing that they are not better differentiating between motorbikes (with substantial congestion and pollution benefits) and other forms of transport.
There are a number of concerns here, including among others that they set precedent for other boroughs, but also massively complicate the road transport network in London with a range of varying rules and regs that people will not be familiar with, but will be fined for breaching. Bank Junction has been closed to most forms of road traffic 7am-7pm since May '17 and generated over 200k individual fines in the first year costing road users tens of millions - and continues to do so as I understand it.
The message back from the City’s transport team has been that they need feedback to know motorcycling is important - their last survey received 2000 responses in total (they ignore the point that this is statistically insignificant vs # of daily commuters). few of which were from the motorcycling community - so a few responses can make a difference.
If you have the opportunity, the survey of main proposals is here and closes Jan 13th:
https://www.citystreets.london/proposals/key-propo...
You can either provide detailed responses or just say support / don’t support if that’s all you have time for.
If you know anyone else that might be interested in responding, pls pass on.
If helpful to discuss any of the items / thoughts on responses happy to.
You mention the pollution benefits of a motorcycle, but what are they? This is a genuine question, I promise you I'm not trying to get anyone's backs up. Here to learn 
I'm asking because my bike returns similar miles per gallon as my car. It's a fairly common 2017 Street Triple. That makes it look (to me) as good/bad as my car, and maybe worse as I think it is a few Euro emissions standards behind cars.
I'm asking because my bike returns similar miles per gallon as my car. It's a fairly common 2017 Street Triple. That makes it look (to me) as good/bad as my car, and maybe worse as I think it is a few Euro emissions standards behind cars.
gland said:
You mention the pollution benefits of a motorcycle, but what are they? This is a genuine question, I promise you I'm not trying to get anyone's backs up. Here to learn
I'm asking because my bike returns similar miles per gallon as my car. It's a fairly common 2017 Street Triple. That makes it look (to me) as good/bad as my car, and maybe worse as I think it is a few Euro emissions standards behind cars.
Is your car a diesel?I'm asking because my bike returns similar miles per gallon as my car. It's a fairly common 2017 Street Triple. That makes it look (to me) as good/bad as my car, and maybe worse as I think it is a few Euro emissions standards behind cars.
Bike won't have as bad particulate or nox emissions. Well.. won't have as bad nox emissions.
That's a big positive for local air pollution.
Obviously the reduction in congestion also reduces emissions.
Greg66 said:
Is the "zero" in this so-called "vision" zero miles per hour?
Looking likelyWhats worst is the "ISA" - Intelligent speed adaptation (ISA) is an in-vehicle system which uses GPS and a database of speed restrictions to limit vehicle speeds. Studies have shown that ISA delivers a substantial decrease in average speed and speed variances and eliminates speed limit violations. It is estimated that non-voluntary ISA could halve the number of fatal collisions in the UK.
Compulsory for all public service vehicles and with proposals to make compulsory for hauliers, private hire (both) and pressing insurers.....
If there was ever a reason to take the plate off the motorbike this is it! (I commute into the City near Bank daily and have secure parking in the office)
scarble said:
Is your car a diesel?
Bike won't have as bad particulate or nox emissions. Well.. won't have as bad nox emissions.
That's a big positive for local air pollution.
Obviously the reduction in congestion also reduces emissions.
Also versus cars they are moving for a far greater proportion of the time, filtering, and as such pass though any area far more quickly, limiting emissions there tooBike won't have as bad particulate or nox emissions. Well.. won't have as bad nox emissions.
That's a big positive for local air pollution.
Obviously the reduction in congestion also reduces emissions.
kiethton said:
It is estimated that non-voluntary ISA could halve the number of fatal collisions in the UK.
I would love to see the error bars in that calculation.Saying "speeding was the cause of accident" (which would seem necessary so you can reach these conclusions), feels very similar to seeing coroner's reports which say along lines of "cause of death was due to heart stopping". Whilst sometimes it's clearly relevant, there's just nothing meaningful that can be taken from that statement in isolation.
The idea of doing so anyway, then making such grandiose claims is just ridiculous but has become the norm it seems. There appears a profound lack of even the most basic grasp of statistics when such claims are made, and no one dares challenge them, presumably lest they appear to advocate speeding. It would never be allowed elsewhere, but "because safety", means you either cherry pick statistics, or utter fail to explain how conclusions are arrived at. Sloppy fear based reasoning, at best.
Welcome to the "post-truth" age.
I’ve filled it in, commute sometimes on my bike (not all the time as I’m soft). I’d be honest and say I’d have one of those electric zero bikes to commute if they were cheap enough but the sums don’t add up just yet. Also whilst I’m lucky in that I can park in our basement and I would be able to plug it in generally the infrastructure doesn’t exist for anyone else.
Thanks Guys - if this is relevant to you, a response on the consultation would be much appreciated.
It is very easy for politicians and planners to completely overlook the benefits of motorcycling and just lump us in one category with other powered vehicles, particulalry when they are being pushed hard by the cycling lobby.
Even if you do have secure parking at work, the zero emissions zones and speed limits, road redesign in favour of cyclists and pedestrians etc etc will impact you.
Bikers arent always the best at raising their voices on these matters - if we can just get 200 responses, that would be 10% of the total that they received last time.
These things can genuinely result in democratic outcomes - as a result of responses to the consultation re the pedestrianisation of Oxford Street (residents and other road users provided negative feedback about resulting congestion and access issues which were not a primary concern of the scheme's backers), Westminster council went against Sadiq Khan and chose not to implement the scheme.
It is very easy for politicians and planners to completely overlook the benefits of motorcycling and just lump us in one category with other powered vehicles, particulalry when they are being pushed hard by the cycling lobby.
Even if you do have secure parking at work, the zero emissions zones and speed limits, road redesign in favour of cyclists and pedestrians etc etc will impact you.
Bikers arent always the best at raising their voices on these matters - if we can just get 200 responses, that would be 10% of the total that they received last time.
These things can genuinely result in democratic outcomes - as a result of responses to the consultation re the pedestrianisation of Oxford Street (residents and other road users provided negative feedback about resulting congestion and access issues which were not a primary concern of the scheme's backers), Westminster council went against Sadiq Khan and chose not to implement the scheme.
scarble said:
gland said:
You mention the pollution benefits of a motorcycle, but what are they? This is a genuine question, I promise you I'm not trying to get anyone's backs up. Here to learn
I'm asking because my bike returns similar miles per gallon as my car. It's a fairly common 2017 Street Triple. That makes it look (to me) as good/bad as my car, and maybe worse as I think it is a few Euro emissions standards behind cars.
Is your car a diesel?I'm asking because my bike returns similar miles per gallon as my car. It's a fairly common 2017 Street Triple. That makes it look (to me) as good/bad as my car, and maybe worse as I think it is a few Euro emissions standards behind cars.
Bike won't have as bad particulate or nox emissions. Well.. won't have as bad nox emissions.
That's a big positive for local air pollution.
Obviously the reduction in congestion also reduces emissions.
f
k me I'm glad I don't commute to the 'Smoke' with all this latest BS!!!
I used to ride up 2 or 3 times a year on a sunny summer Sunday morning to see the sites, ride down the Mall etc. I gave this up due to the scooter thieving scum epidemic. I reckon I wouldn't be allowed to do this now even if I wanted to!
k me I'm glad I don't commute to the 'Smoke' with all this latest BS!!!I used to ride up 2 or 3 times a year on a sunny summer Sunday morning to see the sites, ride down the Mall etc. I gave this up due to the scooter thieving scum epidemic. I reckon I wouldn't be allowed to do this now even if I wanted to!
Biker 1 said:
fk me I'm glad I don't commute to the 'Smoke' with all this latest BS!!!
I used to ride up 2 or 3 times a year on a sunny summer Sunday morning to see the sites, ride down the Mall etc. I gave this up due to the scooter thieving scum epidemic. I reckon I wouldn't be allowed to do this now even if I wanted to!
I'm with you on this. Years ago I used to commute to London but moved jobs years ago outside London. I reckon they come up with all these stupid ideas to resolve their stats. Take m/c theft for example. If they remove motorcycles from the cities the theft statistics go down and they get a pat on the back for resolving crime. The world has gone mad and it's gonna get a whole lot worse.k me I'm glad I don't commute to the 'Smoke' with all this latest BS!!!I used to ride up 2 or 3 times a year on a sunny summer Sunday morning to see the sites, ride down the Mall etc. I gave this up due to the scooter thieving scum epidemic. I reckon I wouldn't be allowed to do this now even if I wanted to!
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff