people doing the polices job, Peadophiles.
Discussion
Whats the thoughts on people trapping the people who are trying to groom and meet a child. Obviously the police cant do what these people can because of red tape. I dont agree with putting footage on social media it should be handed over to the police for them to deal with.
I also find it strange that even today in 2019 when people search for kids on the net, why are they not getting a knock at the door from police when the search engine/IP sees what they searched for or viewed. Its 2019 FFS and this could have been sorted out 10/15 years ago.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6572245/E...
I also find it strange that even today in 2019 when people search for kids on the net, why are they not getting a knock at the door from police when the search engine/IP sees what they searched for or viewed. Its 2019 FFS and this could have been sorted out 10/15 years ago.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6572245/E...
Edited by PAULJ5555 on Wednesday 9th January 11:56
I imagine proper pedos are cleverer than just googling "child porn". Probably use a vpn or other identity hiding service.
No problem with them.being outed. Most of these meets are in public places so you can film in public freely. 8f it just happens to be a paedo caught in a trap then so be it. If they subsequently commit suicide then i dont have a problem with that. Id rather they kill themselves tahn go on to ruin dozens of lives of children they abuse as is so often the case with nonces.
No problem with them.being outed. Most of these meets are in public places so you can film in public freely. 8f it just happens to be a paedo caught in a trap then so be it. If they subsequently commit suicide then i dont have a problem with that. Id rather they kill themselves tahn go on to ruin dozens of lives of children they abuse as is so often the case with nonces.
The police have due process and operate within the law.
What's to say a mistake won't by one of these vigilantes. They have to follow no set rules and regulations. The risk of outing an innocent person is real, a situation which would ruin lives and could possibly end them.
Collect evidence and report to the police I'm good with.
When amateurs start to take actual action, that's where I have an issue with it. The problem is it's an emotive subject , most involved will have some direct experience and will find it difficult to take emotion out of logical decisions.
One best for the professionals I think.
What's to say a mistake won't by one of these vigilantes. They have to follow no set rules and regulations. The risk of outing an innocent person is real, a situation which would ruin lives and could possibly end them.
Collect evidence and report to the police I'm good with.
When amateurs start to take actual action, that's where I have an issue with it. The problem is it's an emotive subject , most involved will have some direct experience and will find it difficult to take emotion out of logical decisions.
One best for the professionals I think.
Whilst I obviously don't want criminals of any persuasion roaming the streets, I don't really have any time for these "peedo" vigilantes. They don't seem to me to be the most savoury characters and nobody will be less surprised than me when one of them gets outed as a nonce or child pornographer themselves.
Dog Star said:
Whilst I obviously don't want criminals of any persuasion roaming the streets, I don't really have any time for these "peedo" vigilantes. They don't seem to me to be the most savoury characters and nobody will be less surprised than me when one of them gets outed as a nonce or child pornographer themselves.
I couldn't agree more. Methinks many of them doth protest too much.Read this article earlier and does make you think about what affect it has on other as well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46529352
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46529352
ElectricPics said:
Dog Star said:
Whilst I obviously don't want criminals of any persuasion roaming the streets, I don't really have any time for these "peedo" vigilantes. They don't seem to me to be the most savoury characters and nobody will be less surprised than me when one of them gets outed as a nonce or child porgrapher themselves.
I couldn't agree more. Methinks many of them doth protest too much.Like most things their a good idea but become a bad one when done wrong.
PAULJ5555 said:
I dont agree with the name and shame on social media until the courts have found them guilty. We havent heard the number of pedos these groups have taken off the streets and are no longer near your child. The is somthing good in what they do.
Like most things their a good idea but become a bad one when done wrong.
Dark Justice had some quote from a BBC interview saying they had done 160 "stings" and only 80 resulted in a convictionLike most things their a good idea but become a bad one when done wrong.
Some of the groups can be fairly professional if you can call them that. Others have cornered a person and contact police then start filming live to social media. The police turn up and arrest the alleged offender and the group stop filming so what they don’t show you is them refusing to give statements etc.....and then they disappear. None of this is shown on their social media pages and when you try and explain to them the need to stay and provide detail around what they’ve done they can be difficult to deal with.
pavarotti1980 said:
Dark Justice had some quote from a BBC interview saying they had done 160 "stings" and only 80 resulted in a conviction
I have my concerns about the way these groups operate as well but i am quite confident that the ones that were not convicted got off on a technicality and were not innocent.From what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
You don't get to see whether the adult that was pretending to be a child was saying things that might have led the conversation in that direction but even if they did..it is a million to one shot that the guy doesn't have illegal intentions. you know, like Pete Townshend who was just doing 'research'...
Shuvi McTupya said:
I have my concerns about the way these groups operate as well but i am quite confident that the ones that were not convicted got off on a technicality and were not innocent.
From what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
You don't get to see whether the adult that was pretending to be a child was saying things that might have led the conversation in that direction but even if they did..it is a million to one shot that the guy doesn't have illegal intentions. you know, like Pete Townshend who was just doing 'research'...
My bolding ^From what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
You don't get to see whether the adult that was pretending to be a child was saying things that might have led the conversation in that direction but even if they did..it is a million to one shot that the guy doesn't have illegal intentions. you know, like Pete Townshend who was just doing 'research'...
Isn't one point that the men haven't been talking to children? They have been messaging/talking with adults pretending to be children. Is that actually illegal?
I remember seeing one of these stings in the next village, I don't recall the name of the group but they basically bullied a bloke with learning difficulties into driving himself with them to the police station, others i've seen where they just try there level best to intimidate and humiliate.
I have no issues with them catching pedo's i have young kids myself but they are targeting young men sometimes mid twenties who have been chatting to a girl 4 days off her 16th Birthday, are these threat in the way a 60 year old buying pictures of under 5's is?
I got friend requested by a women mid twenties not long ago on facetube, worked at the same company as i do in the profile.. accepted and the conversation went like this immediately after..
Hi
Me: Hi
You ok
Me: yeah, do I know you from *** (Work name)?
Hang on my niece is here...
Me: ok
Do you want to see a picture of her?
Me: de friend a report,
Blatantly some group hoping to sting me and turn up at my house where my wife and kids are saying i'm messaging a young girl blah blah.
Do it properly and report it before showing on social media, they have lost credibility in my eyes, the real serious offenders are way under cover from chatting to mid teens on social media (in my opinion )
I have no issues with them catching pedo's i have young kids myself but they are targeting young men sometimes mid twenties who have been chatting to a girl 4 days off her 16th Birthday, are these threat in the way a 60 year old buying pictures of under 5's is?
I got friend requested by a women mid twenties not long ago on facetube, worked at the same company as i do in the profile.. accepted and the conversation went like this immediately after..
Hi
Me: Hi
You ok
Me: yeah, do I know you from *** (Work name)?
Hang on my niece is here...
Me: ok
Do you want to see a picture of her?
Me: de friend a report,
Blatantly some group hoping to sting me and turn up at my house where my wife and kids are saying i'm messaging a young girl blah blah.
Do it properly and report it before showing on social media, they have lost credibility in my eyes, the real serious offenders are way under cover from chatting to mid teens on social media (in my opinion )
On the fence. IF you're a nonce, you deserve everything you get.
BUT
That's a big IF. We have an entire society based on courts of law and innocent until proven guilty. Legal processes. These guys are doing a mob justice / kangaroo court job and instantly ruining lives. IF the bloke is guilty then fair enough (ish), but what about the ones who might not be? Didn't Sir Cliff get accused of noncery and then it was all found to be guff? It's a dangerous precedent to go to the sort of justice system where internet people can be judge and jury, doing such a public hatchet job that the people accused become their own executioner.
In the internet age, lots of "facts" aren't facts. there's loads of "revenge porn" that's fake. An entire industry of porn dedicated to fake celebs. hell, there's apparently a "deepfake" thing where you can scan footage of e.g Game of Thrones and Fast and the Furious and all of a sudden make a "real" video of Denaerys Stormborn being tag teamed by Ron Jeremy and Vin Diesel.
Meanwhile, we have stories of strange nerdy Americans "Swatting" people over arguments on Fortnite quite successfully. What if some of those 4chan weirdos are good at Photoshop? They could very easily create video "proof" streamed over youtube that the bloke coming to meet them in a car park had been grooming kids, when in reality he thinks he's collecting a bargain deal on some item from gumtree. Likelyhood of it happening? Small. Impact? Several ruined lives. What portion of the general public would see "evidence" of a text conversation with well photoshopped proof that the strange bloke up the road sent dick pics to a 12 year old and have the first reaction "custard"? Most would firstly think "pervert" and it's a strong emotion that would overpower normal cynicism.
We've already seen how the Effects of being falsely accused of rape can be devistating to a person. Getting accused of fiddling must surely be even more repulsive (like 11/10). Even if it was proven that the person was innocent, would they ever recover socially?
IMO if this "pedo hunting" type behavior is allowed to continue / gain acceptance / go mainstream it's a matter of time before someone innocent gets ruined by it.
Caveat to the above - my opinion is based on process, rather than these individual cases. All I've seen on this is the article, I have no idea what proof / evidence was involved in ensnaring these people. I don't want to be quoted on here or anywhere looking like I'm sticking up for paedos!
BUT
That's a big IF. We have an entire society based on courts of law and innocent until proven guilty. Legal processes. These guys are doing a mob justice / kangaroo court job and instantly ruining lives. IF the bloke is guilty then fair enough (ish), but what about the ones who might not be? Didn't Sir Cliff get accused of noncery and then it was all found to be guff? It's a dangerous precedent to go to the sort of justice system where internet people can be judge and jury, doing such a public hatchet job that the people accused become their own executioner.
In the internet age, lots of "facts" aren't facts. there's loads of "revenge porn" that's fake. An entire industry of porn dedicated to fake celebs. hell, there's apparently a "deepfake" thing where you can scan footage of e.g Game of Thrones and Fast and the Furious and all of a sudden make a "real" video of Denaerys Stormborn being tag teamed by Ron Jeremy and Vin Diesel.
Meanwhile, we have stories of strange nerdy Americans "Swatting" people over arguments on Fortnite quite successfully. What if some of those 4chan weirdos are good at Photoshop? They could very easily create video "proof" streamed over youtube that the bloke coming to meet them in a car park had been grooming kids, when in reality he thinks he's collecting a bargain deal on some item from gumtree. Likelyhood of it happening? Small. Impact? Several ruined lives. What portion of the general public would see "evidence" of a text conversation with well photoshopped proof that the strange bloke up the road sent dick pics to a 12 year old and have the first reaction "custard"? Most would firstly think "pervert" and it's a strong emotion that would overpower normal cynicism.
We've already seen how the Effects of being falsely accused of rape can be devistating to a person. Getting accused of fiddling must surely be even more repulsive (like 11/10). Even if it was proven that the person was innocent, would they ever recover socially?
IMO if this "pedo hunting" type behavior is allowed to continue / gain acceptance / go mainstream it's a matter of time before someone innocent gets ruined by it.
Caveat to the above - my opinion is based on process, rather than these individual cases. All I've seen on this is the article, I have no idea what proof / evidence was involved in ensnaring these people. I don't want to be quoted on here or anywhere looking like I'm sticking up for paedos!
boyse7en said:
My bolding ^
Isn't one point that the men haven't been talking to children? They have been messaging/talking with adults pretending to be children. Is that actually illegal?
Well no, of course its not illegal if you know you are talking to an adult, and possibly that is how they got away with it?Isn't one point that the men haven't been talking to children? They have been messaging/talking with adults pretending to be children. Is that actually illegal?
If they were to tell the police they knew full well they were talking to an adult and assumed the adult was just a bit kinky and liked to pretend that they were younger..then who knows!
pavarotti1980 said:
PAULJ5555 said:
I dont agree with the name and shame on social media until the courts have found them guilty. We havent heard the number of pedos these groups have taken off the streets and are no longer near your child. The is somthing good in what they do.
Like most things their a good idea but become a bad one when done wrong.
Dark Justice had some quote from a BBC interview saying they had done 160 "stings" and only 80 resulted in a convictionLike most things their a good idea but become a bad one when done wrong.
I don't understand the fuss these people make, with all the confrontational videos and naming and shaming. Surely the satisfaction of catching these people should be enough?
Shuvi McTupya said:
I have my concerns about the way these groups operate as well but i am quite confident that the ones that were not convicted got off on a technicality and were not innocent.
From what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
And this is precisely why vigilanteism is bad, full stop. I don't pretend to know any more than you do exactly what went on - but you, with absolutely no evidence either way, have decided that even when somebody is not convicted they must be guilty. Just...because. You know. Because. I'm surprised you didn't say "well just look at him, of course he's a nonce".From what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
I have no doubt that some of the conversations that go on are absolutely vile, and that some of the people caught this way are genuinely dangerous to children, but that's for the courts to decide - not some bloke with a camera and Facebook account. Gather the evidence and send it to the police - don't try to play the hero yourself and absolutely don't publicly shame people for your own perverse gratification.
These things stick, and a false accusation can and absolutely will ruin somebody's life. That's not a decision that I want to put in the hands of some internet detective with an axe to grind.
deadslow said:
If you're a random grown man off the internet who has arranged to meet a 12 year old child in a park, then you should be named and shamed, and then kicked to death.
Saves kids, saves money, improves the gene pool.
I'm sure there has been at least one case where the accused wasn't in contact with children (or anyone posing as a child) but was simply the new boyfriend of the vigilantes former partner.Saves kids, saves money, improves the gene pool.
Shuvi McTupya said:
I have my concerns about the way these groups operate as well but i am quite confident that the ones that were not convicted got off on a technicality and were not innocent.
From what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
You don't get to see whether the adult that was pretending to be a child was saying things that might have led the conversation in that direction but even if they did..it is a million to one shot that the guy doesn't have illegal intentions. you know, like Pete Townshend who was just doing 'research'...
that was found not guilty in court, 80 getting out of 160 isnt a great successFrom what i have seen when these videos have cropped up on my FB, the accused men have been having some very sexual discussions with children.
You don't get to see whether the adult that was pretending to be a child was saying things that might have led the conversation in that direction but even if they did..it is a million to one shot that the guy doesn't have illegal intentions. you know, like Pete Townshend who was just doing 'research'...
Edited by pavarotti1980 on Wednesday 9th January 17:00
ElectricPics said:
Just listening to one of them being interviewed on Radio Newcastle and he said 160 arrests leading to 80 convictions.
I don't understand the fuss these people make, with all the confrontational videos and naming and shaming. Surely the satisfaction of catching these people should be enough?
Some of them invite donations so I’m guessing the more views and likes etc.... means more income. I don't understand the fuss these people make, with all the confrontational videos and naming and shaming. Surely the satisfaction of catching these people should be enough?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff