What are E60/E61's like?
Discussion
Sorry, vague question. I'm thinking of buying a load lugging, big comfy, auto estate barge in the next few months. Got a surprisingly short shortlist for once. One option I might have is to buy my Dad's 07 525 touring. I've driven it a few times and it's nice enough. Must admit I preferred my older E39's but most E39's seem to be crumbling away these days so not sure I fancy another as a daily run around. I don't know so much about E61's.
The car in question was a bit of a lemon when my dad bought it. Ended up getting a brand new engine a couple of years back and has had a few other expensive gripes fixed. It's cost him quite a lot of money in all honesty. This probably means I should run a mile but at the same, I know it will have had nothing at all overlooked for the last 3-4 years which does make it tempting. It's a known quantity at least.
I suppose my main question revolves around what are the big things to watch for on these? And I guess what are sensible pre-emptive maintenance type jobs and their costs?
The car in question was a bit of a lemon when my dad bought it. Ended up getting a brand new engine a couple of years back and has had a few other expensive gripes fixed. It's cost him quite a lot of money in all honesty. This probably means I should run a mile but at the same, I know it will have had nothing at all overlooked for the last 3-4 years which does make it tempting. It's a known quantity at least.
I suppose my main question revolves around what are the big things to watch for on these? And I guess what are sensible pre-emptive maintenance type jobs and their costs?
Gad-Westy said:
Sorry, vague question. I'm thinking of buying a load lugging, big comfy, auto estate barge in the next few months. Got a surprisingly short shortlist for once. One option I might have is to buy my Dad's 07 525 touring. I've driven it a few times and it's nice enough. Must admit I preferred my older E39's but most E39's seem to be crumbling away these days so not sure I fancy another as a daily run around. I don't know so much about E61's.
The car in question was a bit of a lemon when my dad bought it. Ended up getting a brand new engine a couple of years back and has had a few other expensive gripes fixed. It's cost him quite a lot of money in all honesty. This probably means I should run a mile but at the same, I know it will have had nothing at all overlooked for the last 3-4 years which does make it tempting. It's a known quantity at least.
I suppose my main question revolves around what are the big things to watch for on these? And I guess what are sensible pre-emptive maintenance type jobs and their costs?
Not sure if you're just after a work-horse or a new family car; but for £650: http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/135869-2001-525i-se-...The car in question was a bit of a lemon when my dad bought it. Ended up getting a brand new engine a couple of years back and has had a few other expensive gripes fixed. It's cost him quite a lot of money in all honesty. This probably means I should run a mile but at the same, I know it will have had nothing at all overlooked for the last 3-4 years which does make it tempting. It's a known quantity at least.
I suppose my main question revolves around what are the big things to watch for on these? And I guess what are sensible pre-emptive maintenance type jobs and their costs?
A bit of TLC here & there, replace the headlights (or get them refurbed if possible due to how far they're gone); a lot of car for pennies!
I went and looked into a load of E61 530Ds and 5235Ds before I bought my current 730D; some of them were ok, but all of them, their interior just felt cheap, more so after my previous E38 and x2 E39 530i cars... The E60 felt backwards in this regard, the 730D is so much better built interior wise IMO, so really, it was this that lost the battle for the E60/61s for me
I would have bought an LCi 530i touring, if I could have found one, none were to be seen, sods law 2 popped up 3 weeks after I bought the land-barge, always the case!
If you're not doing the mileage, the petrol is a better choice, LCI again IMO
This is coming from someone who bought his first diesel in the 730D as the spec I wanted, everyone was diesel and I do less than 6k miles a year!
Recently bought a 2007 (LCI) 530i manual touring. It's done 96k but is a 1 owner car prior to me and has been very well looked after by an older gentleman. Pretty impressed so far - lots of space, smooth engine, handles well for a big barge. Ride isn't as good as it could be (runflats), but apart from that it's very refined (a bit too refined with respect to not hearing much of that straight six). I love E39s but just can't be bothered with battling rust which is unfortunately the way the vast majority of these are going now - E60/61s seem much better in that respect. I think the design has aged pretty well given the controversy at launch - at least it is more distinctive than most other estates you see on the road.
Naldrett said:
Recently bought a 2007 (LCI) 530i manual touring. It's done 96k but is a 1 owner car prior to me and has been very well looked after by an older gentleman. Pretty impressed so far - lots of space, smooth engine, handles well for a big barge. Ride isn't as good as it could be (runflats), but apart from that it's very refined (a bit too refined with respect to not hearing much of that straight six). I love E39s but just can't be bothered with battling rust which is unfortunately the way the vast majority of these are going now - E60/61s seem much better in that respect. I think the design has aged pretty well given the controversy at launch - at least it is more distinctive than most other estates you see on the road.
Fully agree, they grew into their looks IMO, same with the facelift E65s...Re the ride, why don’t you ditch the run flats and go with normal tyres, it’s the best cure for this!
Thanks for all the replies folks.
Seems a few share the same thoughts on E60/1 vs E39. I much prefer the older car but I've had two of them now and running them daily starts to become a chore I think. Lots of chasing rust, suspension components, coolant system and other issues. I love them but some are 20 years old now and I don't want the hassle of dealing with 20 year old car problems on a regular basis. An Alpina or M5 tucked up in the garage for summer days would be nice though.
Interesting that the 7 series popped up. I do like those but i think I want an estate next. We go camping with the kids a lot and it just makes life easier. And the mrs is muttering about getting a dog...
Point taken about the ride on the E61. This one in question is switched to normal tyres so I hadn't really thought about it but need to bare that in mind if I look at others. Full set of winters with this one too which might be handy.
Do the autoboxes benefit from an oil change like the older boxes?
And another thing bugging me is that the spec of this one isn't amazing. Mostly it's fine but it doesn't have sat nav or aux in. Not sure about bluetooth. I could probably live with all of that if I could add something simple that maybe gives me aux in and USB charging up front. Anything neat and easy on that front or is it not really worth bothering?
Seems a few share the same thoughts on E60/1 vs E39. I much prefer the older car but I've had two of them now and running them daily starts to become a chore I think. Lots of chasing rust, suspension components, coolant system and other issues. I love them but some are 20 years old now and I don't want the hassle of dealing with 20 year old car problems on a regular basis. An Alpina or M5 tucked up in the garage for summer days would be nice though.
Interesting that the 7 series popped up. I do like those but i think I want an estate next. We go camping with the kids a lot and it just makes life easier. And the mrs is muttering about getting a dog...
Point taken about the ride on the E61. This one in question is switched to normal tyres so I hadn't really thought about it but need to bare that in mind if I look at others. Full set of winters with this one too which might be handy.
Do the autoboxes benefit from an oil change like the older boxes?
And another thing bugging me is that the spec of this one isn't amazing. Mostly it's fine but it doesn't have sat nav or aux in. Not sure about bluetooth. I could probably live with all of that if I could add something simple that maybe gives me aux in and USB charging up front. Anything neat and easy on that front or is it not really worth bothering?
Gad-Westy said:
Thanks for all the replies folks.
Seems a few share the same thoughts on E60/1 vs E39. I much prefer the older car but I've had two of them now and running them daily starts to become a chore I think. Lots of chasing rust, suspension components, coolant system and other issues. I love them but some are 20 years old now and I don't want the hassle of dealing with 20 year old car problems on a regular basis. An Alpina or M5 tucked up in the garage for summer days would be nice though.
Interesting that the 7 series popped up. I do like those but i think I want an estate next. We go camping with the kids a lot and it just makes life easier. And the mrs is muttering about getting a dog...
Point taken about the ride on the E61. This one in question is switched to normal tyres so I hadn't really thought about it but need to bare that in mind if I look at others. Full set of winters with this one too which might be handy.
Do the autoboxes benefit from an oil change like the older boxes?
And another thing bugging me is that the spec of this one isn't amazing. Mostly it's fine but it doesn't have sat nav or aux in. Not sure about bluetooth. I could probably live with all of that if I could add something simple that maybe gives me aux in and USB charging up front. Anything neat and easy on that front or is it not really worth bothering?
See this is where that E39 touring I linked to comes in, already had the cooling system done, that’s a big plus point and you can easily retrofit all the bits you want... Start moving into the E60s territory, you get all the fancy/complicated electrics and it’s either a nightmare/impossible or bloody expensive to retrofit stuff...Seems a few share the same thoughts on E60/1 vs E39. I much prefer the older car but I've had two of them now and running them daily starts to become a chore I think. Lots of chasing rust, suspension components, coolant system and other issues. I love them but some are 20 years old now and I don't want the hassle of dealing with 20 year old car problems on a regular basis. An Alpina or M5 tucked up in the garage for summer days would be nice though.
Interesting that the 7 series popped up. I do like those but i think I want an estate next. We go camping with the kids a lot and it just makes life easier. And the mrs is muttering about getting a dog...
Point taken about the ride on the E61. This one in question is switched to normal tyres so I hadn't really thought about it but need to bare that in mind if I look at others. Full set of winters with this one too which might be handy.
Do the autoboxes benefit from an oil change like the older boxes?
And another thing bugging me is that the spec of this one isn't amazing. Mostly it's fine but it doesn't have sat nav or aux in. Not sure about bluetooth. I could probably live with all of that if I could add something simple that maybe gives me aux in and USB charging up front. Anything neat and easy on that front or is it not really worth bothering?
Camping, possible dog and load lugging... E39 for me all the way, cheaper to fix and run
Unless you can find a decent spec’d E61, I’d keep looking/thinking
d_a_n1979 said:
Gad-Westy said:
Thanks for all the replies folks.
Seems a few share the same thoughts on E60/1 vs E39. I much prefer the older car but I've had two of them now and running them daily starts to become a chore I think. Lots of chasing rust, suspension components, coolant system and other issues. I love them but some are 20 years old now and I don't want the hassle of dealing with 20 year old car problems on a regular basis. An Alpina or M5 tucked up in the garage for summer days would be nice though.
Interesting that the 7 series popped up. I do like those but i think I want an estate next. We go camping with the kids a lot and it just makes life easier. And the mrs is muttering about getting a dog...
Point taken about the ride on the E61. This one in question is switched to normal tyres so I hadn't really thought about it but need to bare that in mind if I look at others. Full set of winters with this one too which might be handy.
Do the autoboxes benefit from an oil change like the older boxes?
And another thing bugging me is that the spec of this one isn't amazing. Mostly it's fine but it doesn't have sat nav or aux in. Not sure about bluetooth. I could probably live with all of that if I could add something simple that maybe gives me aux in and USB charging up front. Anything neat and easy on that front or is it not really worth bothering?
See this is where that E39 touring I linked to comes in, already had the cooling system done, that’s a big plus point and you can easily retrofit all the bits you want... Start moving into the E60s territory, you get all the fancy/complicated electrics and it’s either a nightmare/impossible or bloody expensive to retrofit stuff...Seems a few share the same thoughts on E60/1 vs E39. I much prefer the older car but I've had two of them now and running them daily starts to become a chore I think. Lots of chasing rust, suspension components, coolant system and other issues. I love them but some are 20 years old now and I don't want the hassle of dealing with 20 year old car problems on a regular basis. An Alpina or M5 tucked up in the garage for summer days would be nice though.
Interesting that the 7 series popped up. I do like those but i think I want an estate next. We go camping with the kids a lot and it just makes life easier. And the mrs is muttering about getting a dog...
Point taken about the ride on the E61. This one in question is switched to normal tyres so I hadn't really thought about it but need to bare that in mind if I look at others. Full set of winters with this one too which might be handy.
Do the autoboxes benefit from an oil change like the older boxes?
And another thing bugging me is that the spec of this one isn't amazing. Mostly it's fine but it doesn't have sat nav or aux in. Not sure about bluetooth. I could probably live with all of that if I could add something simple that maybe gives me aux in and USB charging up front. Anything neat and easy on that front or is it not really worth bothering?
Camping, possible dog and load lugging... E39 for me all the way, cheaper to fix and run
Unless you can find a decent spec’d E61, I’d keep looking/thinking
I went from an E60 saloon to an E91 Touring
You can get more in an E60!!
I wanted an E61 originally, but no 530d's in manual available - until I went to collect the E60! Typical. It was several thousand pounds dearer though.
E6x is more cruiser than back lane scratcher. They do tend to lift a wheel and the traction control kicks in early. A late E6x will be a better buy than an early E9x IMO.
E91 Touring can get a little wallowy when loaded and driven with spirit.
Satnavs in both cars are garbage compared to Garmin Tom Tom Waze etc.
You can get more in an E60!!
I wanted an E61 originally, but no 530d's in manual available - until I went to collect the E60! Typical. It was several thousand pounds dearer though.
E6x is more cruiser than back lane scratcher. They do tend to lift a wheel and the traction control kicks in early. A late E6x will be a better buy than an early E9x IMO.
E91 Touring can get a little wallowy when loaded and driven with spirit.
Satnavs in both cars are garbage compared to Garmin Tom Tom Waze etc.
We've had two e61s: the first a pre-LCI, low-spec petrol 523i; the second a fully loaded post-LCI 530d xdrive. Neither of them was exactly cheap to run. But all the same, I'd have another.
The early car really benefitted from a gearbox service - which at the time was an expensive job (about £700-800 if memory serves), but there might be service kits available now to make it cheaper. It made a big difference to the smoothness of the box. During our ownership it also needed a new radiator and an alternator but not a whole lot more. The previous owner was a PH-er who took good care of it, and we were the beneficiaries. Ours fell into a tax 'black spot' - £500 p.a. so it's worth checking the rates on whichever car you buy.
The later car was a beast. It felt properly solid and was a super long distance bit of kit. The LCI stuff really improved the interior - plus ours had been specced to the hilt by the original owner. The combination of the 30d engine and the 4wd drive-train gave it a remarkable sure-footedness. Not light, mind you, and with the added drain of xdrive it seldom better 35mpg. During our ownership the windscreen wipers packed up and the central locking stopped working. Both were expensive fixes.
Both cars suffered with electrical niggles due to the location of vital kit above the rear screen - the wires pass through the hinges at the top of the rear hatch, and break down over time.
Still, I'd have another.
The early car really benefitted from a gearbox service - which at the time was an expensive job (about £700-800 if memory serves), but there might be service kits available now to make it cheaper. It made a big difference to the smoothness of the box. During our ownership it also needed a new radiator and an alternator but not a whole lot more. The previous owner was a PH-er who took good care of it, and we were the beneficiaries. Ours fell into a tax 'black spot' - £500 p.a. so it's worth checking the rates on whichever car you buy.
The later car was a beast. It felt properly solid and was a super long distance bit of kit. The LCI stuff really improved the interior - plus ours had been specced to the hilt by the original owner. The combination of the 30d engine and the 4wd drive-train gave it a remarkable sure-footedness. Not light, mind you, and with the added drain of xdrive it seldom better 35mpg. During our ownership the windscreen wipers packed up and the central locking stopped working. Both were expensive fixes.
Both cars suffered with electrical niggles due to the location of vital kit above the rear screen - the wires pass through the hinges at the top of the rear hatch, and break down over time.
Still, I'd have another.
I ran a 525d E61 (late 2007 LCI) for 3 years, taking it up to nearly 130k. Apart from service items (at a BMW independent) I had the following issues:
New battery. Not cheap, as it's an AGM battery and needs to be coded to the car. About £240
Windscreen wiper linkage, supplied and fitted by main dealer. Around £120
Air suspension compressor relay. DIY fix, £13
Tailgate glass hatch microswitch. DIY fix, about £30
I ditched the runflats, and bought a spare wheel kit from a BMW dealer on eBay
I fitted a Dension Gateway module to the stereo, which allowed me to play music from a USB stick. They also do a version with bluetooth if the car doesn't have phone prep. Fairly straightforward DIY install, secondhand from eBay.
New battery. Not cheap, as it's an AGM battery and needs to be coded to the car. About £240
Windscreen wiper linkage, supplied and fitted by main dealer. Around £120
Air suspension compressor relay. DIY fix, £13
Tailgate glass hatch microswitch. DIY fix, about £30
I ditched the runflats, and bought a spare wheel kit from a BMW dealer on eBay
I fitted a Dension Gateway module to the stereo, which allowed me to play music from a USB stick. They also do a version with bluetooth if the car doesn't have phone prep. Fairly straightforward DIY install, secondhand from eBay.
These are all at the age where they can generate impressive invoices. They're also old enough where a law of diminishing returns applies; the original M54 engines (pre 2005) were more robust, but they're so old now and 25 mpg isn't funny. The N52 is alright but they can piss oil out plus you have the electric coolant pump and the possible cam bearing ledge issue............but.....
Get into LCI stuff after mid 2007 and you're into injectors, coil packs, NoX sensors and f
k knows what else. Lovely cars until the dreaded cold start misfire rears its expensive head. Then you are in a world of fault codes, £200 injectors (x6). Just don't.
For a daily car that's not dear to buy or run, I'd buy a pre 57 plate 520d with the old 163 bhp M47N engine. I had one of these for a weekend when it was new, an M Sport saloon with the 6 speed manual. I was impressed by it; not fast but brisk, quiet enough, nice handling and 40 mpg. They're a very good engine as well without the timing chain crap of the N47 (later 2007 on).
£3500 should buy a clean one with good history and around 130'000 miles. Get the swirl flaps removed and do an oil change, job done.
E39's are too old now.
Here's one with lowish miles, leather and a pan roof if you're brave.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Get into LCI stuff after mid 2007 and you're into injectors, coil packs, NoX sensors and f
k knows what else. Lovely cars until the dreaded cold start misfire rears its expensive head. Then you are in a world of fault codes, £200 injectors (x6). Just don't.For a daily car that's not dear to buy or run, I'd buy a pre 57 plate 520d with the old 163 bhp M47N engine. I had one of these for a weekend when it was new, an M Sport saloon with the 6 speed manual. I was impressed by it; not fast but brisk, quiet enough, nice handling and 40 mpg. They're a very good engine as well without the timing chain crap of the N47 (later 2007 on).
£3500 should buy a clean one with good history and around 130'000 miles. Get the swirl flaps removed and do an oil change, job done.
E39's are too old now.
Here's one with lowish miles, leather and a pan roof if you're brave.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Edited by iSore on Friday 11th January 18:04
I don't agree re the 'E39s are too old now' statements..
I and a lot of other folk have had late 2002/2003 E39s with zero issues, just the usual maintenance etc... All depends on the actual car and how spanner-savvy you are IMO, but also what you're willing to buy and pay to have things put right
The E39s saving grace is that they're not as electrically technical as the E60s and upwards and with more robust engines!
However, they do rust and this can be the killer; if you can find a decent one without the rust issues, for me, the E39 is just as good a car, if not better!
I and a lot of other folk have had late 2002/2003 E39s with zero issues, just the usual maintenance etc... All depends on the actual car and how spanner-savvy you are IMO, but also what you're willing to buy and pay to have things put right
The E39s saving grace is that they're not as electrically technical as the E60s and upwards and with more robust engines!
However, they do rust and this can be the killer; if you can find a decent one without the rust issues, for me, the E39 is just as good a car, if not better!
The whole 'E60 electrics' thing is mainly hearsay. 8/10, most problems are due to the wrong battery and because they've been out for nearly 16 years the foibles are well known.
E60's are more reliable in terms of the cooling system and the ABS units rarely fail. The old bogeys of failing pixels in the cluster and breaking wiper linkages were sorted as well. Avoid crap like active steering/ride like the plague though.
E60's are more reliable in terms of the cooling system and the ABS units rarely fail. The old bogeys of failing pixels in the cluster and breaking wiper linkages were sorted as well. Avoid crap like active steering/ride like the plague though.
I had a few E39's, 528i, 530i Touring, 530d Touring another 530i Touring and then a 530i saloon.
I have had an E61 535d Touring, then a 530d Touring and now some 5 years later another 530d Touring, this time in SE guise.
The E61's have been far more reliable than the E39s.
The E61's do have a few known issues, but all are pretty easy to sort and not expensive.
My favourite has been the 530d in SE guise, I would prefer it in a petrol, but I haven't changed when they have come up because I feel I have a good 'un and don't want to walk into the unknown with another one.
I have had an E61 535d Touring, then a 530d Touring and now some 5 years later another 530d Touring, this time in SE guise.
The E61's have been far more reliable than the E39s.
The E61's do have a few known issues, but all are pretty easy to sort and not expensive.
My favourite has been the 530d in SE guise, I would prefer it in a petrol, but I haven't changed when they have come up because I feel I have a good 'un and don't want to walk into the unknown with another one.
I was really looking out for a 530i SE E61 when I was looking, there was one in Glasgow which I'd arranged to get a train to go up and se (only 2 hours from Preston), but he called me that morning to say it'd sold the night before... Looked a stunning motor too, in silver with lots of essential toys
For the ride, they were better than the M Sport IMO, can soon put larger alloys & tyres on, but the bit softer suspension made all the difference!
For the ride, they were better than the M Sport IMO, can soon put larger alloys & tyres on, but the bit softer suspension made all the difference!
Edited by d_a_n1979 on Saturday 12th January 12:21
Yeah, the the 535d I had was M-Sport and even off the run flats it was over damped, the SE is spot on, feels a lot like the E39 Sport for the way it handles and comfort, which is a good thing imho.
There isn't actually that much in it handling wise between the two, but the SE seems to cope with roads that are not snooker table flat far better, it bites into uneven corners in a way the M-Sport often struggled. Even off the run flats the M-Sport would get a bit skittish at the back when pressing on while going down B Roads.
It is time for me to change mine, I actually sold it last year but kept it as I prefer it to the F11 I had before, but I am now up to 116k miles and need to decide, in a year it will have 150k miles and be worth peanuts, in 2 years it will be 200k miles nearly and worth even fewer peanuts.
I'm actually considering a late F11 520d and going for MPG, enjoying it in a different way. Just think I may regret that after a couple of months.
There isn't actually that much in it handling wise between the two, but the SE seems to cope with roads that are not snooker table flat far better, it bites into uneven corners in a way the M-Sport often struggled. Even off the run flats the M-Sport would get a bit skittish at the back when pressing on while going down B Roads.
It is time for me to change mine, I actually sold it last year but kept it as I prefer it to the F11 I had before, but I am now up to 116k miles and need to decide, in a year it will have 150k miles and be worth peanuts, in 2 years it will be 200k miles nearly and worth even fewer peanuts.
I'm actually considering a late F11 520d and going for MPG, enjoying it in a different way. Just think I may regret that after a couple of months.
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