another question to the experts
Discussion
You guys are the experts and id really apriciate some feed back on a case study ive written about Noble, its very much a work in progress and would really appreiciate any comments about its content, (errors, things ive failed to mention etc.)
(due to cache restrictions its spread over several posts)
16 Moat Way Industrial Estate, Barwell Leicestershire, now – as a result of the demise of Rover – the home of Britain’s car industry. An unlikely setting for one of the few British owned British run car manufacturers, but somewhat appropriate when you consider their wares.
The production of high volume passenger vehicles in the UK is far from dead, the ownership of such companies sadly is, Britain used to own the third largest car company in the world (British Leyland), a collection of British brands brought together under one ownership, which crumbled spectacularly as a result of monumentally poor management and numerous external factors (foreign competition). The few companies that survived eventually succumbed to the pressures of competing with companies like Ford and Toyota, and Britain has been left with no British owned mainstream manufacturers at all. So it is to Leicestershire and Noble Automotive that we must look for a British car industry, and there we find a small scale (200 units p/a) independently owned sports car manufacturer owned and run by a similarly unlikely character in Lee Noble.
Described as a “A talented and enthusiastic engineer” and “ a reluctant businessman” Lee Noble started his automotive career behind the wheel of a Renault powered Lotus Europa as a racing driver, his talents as a development engineer and designer were noted and it wasn’t long before he was working on other racing cars and a number of road cars, including the Mclaren F1. His first road car was the Ultima, which received high acclaim within the UK low-volume specialist sports car market, they produced around 200 units before Lee sold the company and moved on to another project.
He then started producing replicas of the Lotus 23B (sold 60 units) - powered by a Lotus Twin Cam or Renault V6 engine - and the Ferrari P4 (250 units) powered by Chevrolet V8 engines, all built to such high standards that most still exist today.
His next project took him back to his racing roots, the Pro-sport was designed to make circuit racing more accessible by reducing costs to the consumer, this budget racing proved popular and Noble produced around 50 cars which were raced successfully on circuits through out the UK.
(due to cache restrictions its spread over several posts)
16 Moat Way Industrial Estate, Barwell Leicestershire, now – as a result of the demise of Rover – the home of Britain’s car industry. An unlikely setting for one of the few British owned British run car manufacturers, but somewhat appropriate when you consider their wares.
The production of high volume passenger vehicles in the UK is far from dead, the ownership of such companies sadly is, Britain used to own the third largest car company in the world (British Leyland), a collection of British brands brought together under one ownership, which crumbled spectacularly as a result of monumentally poor management and numerous external factors (foreign competition). The few companies that survived eventually succumbed to the pressures of competing with companies like Ford and Toyota, and Britain has been left with no British owned mainstream manufacturers at all. So it is to Leicestershire and Noble Automotive that we must look for a British car industry, and there we find a small scale (200 units p/a) independently owned sports car manufacturer owned and run by a similarly unlikely character in Lee Noble.
Described as a “A talented and enthusiastic engineer” and “ a reluctant businessman” Lee Noble started his automotive career behind the wheel of a Renault powered Lotus Europa as a racing driver, his talents as a development engineer and designer were noted and it wasn’t long before he was working on other racing cars and a number of road cars, including the Mclaren F1. His first road car was the Ultima, which received high acclaim within the UK low-volume specialist sports car market, they produced around 200 units before Lee sold the company and moved on to another project.
He then started producing replicas of the Lotus 23B (sold 60 units) - powered by a Lotus Twin Cam or Renault V6 engine - and the Ferrari P4 (250 units) powered by Chevrolet V8 engines, all built to such high standards that most still exist today.
His next project took him back to his racing roots, the Pro-sport was designed to make circuit racing more accessible by reducing costs to the consumer, this budget racing proved popular and Noble produced around 50 cars which were raced successfully on circuits through out the UK.
part 2
Lee then moved on to the MidTec, an open top road car for the leisure market, it was well received by the specialist press and led to a production run of around 60 examples.
All his original designs (Ultima, Pro-Sport, MidTech) drew heavily from his experience in racing and engineering, his tubular space frame chassis designs helped to establish him as one of the UK’s best Auto design/engineers and stood him in good stead for his biggest, most complex project to date.
The Ascari is perhaps Lee Noble’s most high profile project (other than those which bare his name). The Ascari was a 500bhp super car, which was - for a time – Autocar magazine’s fastest accelerating car in the UK. Despite interest from over seas markets Lee sold his share of the company to his partner and set about designing a car that could deliver similar levels of performance for a fraction of the price. For this project Lee brought in Tony Moy as a business partner, and Noble Moy Automotive was born.
The first car to bare Lee’s name was the Noble M10, released in 1999 the car was considered highly capable in the handling department, even thought to be better than the Lotus Elise, which at that time was the bench mark. Where it suffered was in the performance and appearance stakes. So using the same chassis Lee redesigned the body and added two turbos to the M10’s 2.5 ltr Ford V6 engine, and the result was the M12.
The M12 launched in 2000 received critical acclaim not only from the specialist car magazines but also for the first time from the mainstream press, this was a huge step forward for Noble, it took them from an obscure name in the relatively small specialised/kit car market to a manufacturer producing cars that rival the best from Porsche and Ferrari. The British press praised it with numerous accolades including Autocar’s Best Drivers Car award, beating off the likes of Porsche, BMW and Lamborghini (July 27 2004 Autocar Magazine). Auto Express awarded it it’s Specialist Manufacturer of the year award in 2002, and Jeremy Clarkson rated the M12 as his best drivers car in 2001 and 2002, praise indeed considering the M12’s competition and it’s relatively cheap purchase price.
Lee then moved on to the MidTec, an open top road car for the leisure market, it was well received by the specialist press and led to a production run of around 60 examples.
All his original designs (Ultima, Pro-Sport, MidTech) drew heavily from his experience in racing and engineering, his tubular space frame chassis designs helped to establish him as one of the UK’s best Auto design/engineers and stood him in good stead for his biggest, most complex project to date.
The Ascari is perhaps Lee Noble’s most high profile project (other than those which bare his name). The Ascari was a 500bhp super car, which was - for a time – Autocar magazine’s fastest accelerating car in the UK. Despite interest from over seas markets Lee sold his share of the company to his partner and set about designing a car that could deliver similar levels of performance for a fraction of the price. For this project Lee brought in Tony Moy as a business partner, and Noble Moy Automotive was born.
The first car to bare Lee’s name was the Noble M10, released in 1999 the car was considered highly capable in the handling department, even thought to be better than the Lotus Elise, which at that time was the bench mark. Where it suffered was in the performance and appearance stakes. So using the same chassis Lee redesigned the body and added two turbos to the M10’s 2.5 ltr Ford V6 engine, and the result was the M12.
The M12 launched in 2000 received critical acclaim not only from the specialist car magazines but also for the first time from the mainstream press, this was a huge step forward for Noble, it took them from an obscure name in the relatively small specialised/kit car market to a manufacturer producing cars that rival the best from Porsche and Ferrari. The British press praised it with numerous accolades including Autocar’s Best Drivers Car award, beating off the likes of Porsche, BMW and Lamborghini (July 27 2004 Autocar Magazine). Auto Express awarded it it’s Specialist Manufacturer of the year award in 2002, and Jeremy Clarkson rated the M12 as his best drivers car in 2001 and 2002, praise indeed considering the M12’s competition and it’s relatively cheap purchase price.
part 3
Since it’s launch in 2000, the M12 has gone through a number of evolutions; engine capacity increase, power increases, chassis and powertrain modifications and styling tweaks have all been used to keep the M12 up to date, and on par with the competition, this has kept demand high, with Noble Automotive now delivering around 200 units per year. This level of demand has led them to out source much of the production and fabrication to another company. Hi Tech Automotive in South Africa fabricates body shells for the kit car market, one of their most popular kits is a replica of the legendary AC Cobra from the 1960s. As demand increased for the M12, Noble and Moy realised that a company such as Hi Tech would be the most appropriate way to meet demand. So high tech fabricates the tubular chassis, and the fibreglass body of the M12, as well as some of the internal/auxiliary gear e.g. exhausts, radiators, intercoolers and fuel tanks. They then mate the chassis and body, install the wiring loom, windscreen, interior trim, radiators, and axles etc. With the majority of the construction completed in South Africa the cars are shipped to Leicestershire to have the engines, gearboxes and tyres fitted ready for delivery.
With such success in the domestic market, the next step was to make the M12 available to the biggest car market in the world, the United States. This market is massively important for an auto manufacturer; the US is the most affluent country in the world, and in love with cars, buying more than any other. Ironically - due to their litigious nature - it also one of the hardest markets to access because of their stringent legislation governing emissions and safety. This presents a problem for manufacturers like Noble, because safety systems – like crumples zones, traction control, ABS and airbags have significant development costs. These costs are simply too high for small, low-volume manufacturers, and would compromise the product both in purchase price and performance (increase in weight). But there are ways around these problems. Like many countries it is possible to avoid such regulations if the volume of cars produced is low and the vehicle is sold as a kit car, 1g Racing a US firm - based in Ohio - acts as an agent for Noble Automotives; “The Noble M12 will be sold in limited quantities as a component rolling chassis only. These units come factory assembled, painted, upholstered, fully instrumented with brakes, suspension, exhaust, wheels, and tires ready to accept your drivetrain. The engine/transaxle is to be installed by the buyer or at the buyer's direction by an independent contractor” (www.1gracing.com). By importing the M12 in this manner it is not subject to all of the US health and safety, noise and emissions regulations. With such high praise from the media, and access to affluent markets such as the US, it’s a wonder they don’t sell more than 200 cars per year.
Since it’s launch in 2000, the M12 has gone through a number of evolutions; engine capacity increase, power increases, chassis and powertrain modifications and styling tweaks have all been used to keep the M12 up to date, and on par with the competition, this has kept demand high, with Noble Automotive now delivering around 200 units per year. This level of demand has led them to out source much of the production and fabrication to another company. Hi Tech Automotive in South Africa fabricates body shells for the kit car market, one of their most popular kits is a replica of the legendary AC Cobra from the 1960s. As demand increased for the M12, Noble and Moy realised that a company such as Hi Tech would be the most appropriate way to meet demand. So high tech fabricates the tubular chassis, and the fibreglass body of the M12, as well as some of the internal/auxiliary gear e.g. exhausts, radiators, intercoolers and fuel tanks. They then mate the chassis and body, install the wiring loom, windscreen, interior trim, radiators, and axles etc. With the majority of the construction completed in South Africa the cars are shipped to Leicestershire to have the engines, gearboxes and tyres fitted ready for delivery.
With such success in the domestic market, the next step was to make the M12 available to the biggest car market in the world, the United States. This market is massively important for an auto manufacturer; the US is the most affluent country in the world, and in love with cars, buying more than any other. Ironically - due to their litigious nature - it also one of the hardest markets to access because of their stringent legislation governing emissions and safety. This presents a problem for manufacturers like Noble, because safety systems – like crumples zones, traction control, ABS and airbags have significant development costs. These costs are simply too high for small, low-volume manufacturers, and would compromise the product both in purchase price and performance (increase in weight). But there are ways around these problems. Like many countries it is possible to avoid such regulations if the volume of cars produced is low and the vehicle is sold as a kit car, 1g Racing a US firm - based in Ohio - acts as an agent for Noble Automotives; “The Noble M12 will be sold in limited quantities as a component rolling chassis only. These units come factory assembled, painted, upholstered, fully instrumented with brakes, suspension, exhaust, wheels, and tires ready to accept your drivetrain. The engine/transaxle is to be installed by the buyer or at the buyer's direction by an independent contractor” (www.1gracing.com). By importing the M12 in this manner it is not subject to all of the US health and safety, noise and emissions regulations. With such high praise from the media, and access to affluent markets such as the US, it’s a wonder they don’t sell more than 200 cars per year.
part 4
In fact it isn’t a wonder at all; 200 units p/a is the limit for manufacturers wishing to avoid the harshest of the many EU noise, safety and emission regulations. The Noble is produced under the UK's low-volume Single Vehicle Type Approval scheme, which means that it isn't subject to some of the more stringent crash tests undergone by mainstream mass-produced cars. It’s quite conceivable that without these restrictions Noble would be able to sell more than 200 units per year, production restrictions are a major barrier for growth in this industry.
The M12 costs between £40,000 to £60,000 (depending on specification) and occupies the high performance track day sports car market, Lee’s next project is the M14, not an evolution of the M12 as the name may suggest, but an all new model which aims to compete directly with Porsche and Ferrari, not only in performance terms but also in levels of quality. The guide price for the new model is around £75,000, which puts it firmly up against the Porsche 911 and around £30,000 cheaper than the closest offering from Ferrari. Indeed the stiffest competition is likely to come from another British brand (although now owned by the US manufacturer Ford) Aston Martin, which aims to release the AM V8 Vantage at a similar time as the M14, to a similar market. The mid priced GT market will be a new venture for both firms, Noble coming up in price and quality, and Aston Martin coming down. Its hard to see how a relative new comer to auto manufacture will be able to compete with the heritage and prestige of a brand such as Aston Martin. Of course Noble will argue that the M14 will be restricted in number and be far more exclusive than its rivals, but brand image and attributes are a major selling point particularly in this sector of the market were image and “posing power” are so important. But it’s a gamble that simply must pay off for Noble, as the development of a new model requires a significant proportion of the company’s resources. The likely hood is they will sell all that they build but be limited by the manufacturing restrictions. The next step forward for Noble will be to produce a model which meets all the regulations and legislation, and avoids the low volume production restrictions,(the M14 has improved side, front and rear crash protection with a view to gaining full European type approval) but that will require significant investment which is likely to be beyond the current teams capabilities, it is conceivable that the Noble brand could become a higher volume producer (over 200 units p/a) but only if the company was bought by one of the larger manufacturing groups e.g. Ford. This would enable them to take advantage of the parent companies resources and competencies. The sharing of platforms and engines within manufacturing groups is commonplace and significantly reduces development costs.
With out these economies of scale it’s difficult to see how Noble could grow, but is that something Lee wants? Is he content to own and direct an independent sports car manufacturer, which produces unique unfettered products to his exacting specifications and criteria?
>> Edited by paps on Saturday 14th May 17:36
In fact it isn’t a wonder at all; 200 units p/a is the limit for manufacturers wishing to avoid the harshest of the many EU noise, safety and emission regulations. The Noble is produced under the UK's low-volume Single Vehicle Type Approval scheme, which means that it isn't subject to some of the more stringent crash tests undergone by mainstream mass-produced cars. It’s quite conceivable that without these restrictions Noble would be able to sell more than 200 units per year, production restrictions are a major barrier for growth in this industry.
The M12 costs between £40,000 to £60,000 (depending on specification) and occupies the high performance track day sports car market, Lee’s next project is the M14, not an evolution of the M12 as the name may suggest, but an all new model which aims to compete directly with Porsche and Ferrari, not only in performance terms but also in levels of quality. The guide price for the new model is around £75,000, which puts it firmly up against the Porsche 911 and around £30,000 cheaper than the closest offering from Ferrari. Indeed the stiffest competition is likely to come from another British brand (although now owned by the US manufacturer Ford) Aston Martin, which aims to release the AM V8 Vantage at a similar time as the M14, to a similar market. The mid priced GT market will be a new venture for both firms, Noble coming up in price and quality, and Aston Martin coming down. Its hard to see how a relative new comer to auto manufacture will be able to compete with the heritage and prestige of a brand such as Aston Martin. Of course Noble will argue that the M14 will be restricted in number and be far more exclusive than its rivals, but brand image and attributes are a major selling point particularly in this sector of the market were image and “posing power” are so important. But it’s a gamble that simply must pay off for Noble, as the development of a new model requires a significant proportion of the company’s resources. The likely hood is they will sell all that they build but be limited by the manufacturing restrictions. The next step forward for Noble will be to produce a model which meets all the regulations and legislation, and avoids the low volume production restrictions,(the M14 has improved side, front and rear crash protection with a view to gaining full European type approval) but that will require significant investment which is likely to be beyond the current teams capabilities, it is conceivable that the Noble brand could become a higher volume producer (over 200 units p/a) but only if the company was bought by one of the larger manufacturing groups e.g. Ford. This would enable them to take advantage of the parent companies resources and competencies. The sharing of platforms and engines within manufacturing groups is commonplace and significantly reduces development costs.
With out these economies of scale it’s difficult to see how Noble could grow, but is that something Lee wants? Is he content to own and direct an independent sports car manufacturer, which produces unique unfettered products to his exacting specifications and criteria?
>> Edited by paps on Saturday 14th May 17:36
Lee didn't actually work on the F1 AFAIK, his Ultima chassis was used as the mule.
Not sure if Ascari is "high profile" - most people have never heard of it!
The M10 didn't suffer in performance, it leaves an Elise for dead. Effectivly Tiff Nedell rather scuppered it by slating it's looks on fifth gear and various magazines. The deal was done with HiTech before any customer cars were delivered AFAIK.
Bespoke interiors or anything "special" is done in the UK.
The final M12 in the US still has to pass a "SVA" like test, and these vary from state to state so it's not correct to state that it can advoid all legislation.
The M12's body, chassis and trim has always been done in SA - nothing to do with demand making them outsource.
The "200" limit on SVA was abolished some time ago (it was actually 50 in any one year, 100 in any five years) and things changed around dramatically during 1999 & 2000. See www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/publications/sva%20newsletter%20-%20august%202000.pdf for details.
The M14 shares the same basis chassis as the M12, so not sure if the "not an evolution" reads right.
You last three paragraphs are pure speculation and have no real place in a "case study" - you should keep to the facts.
J
Not sure if Ascari is "high profile" - most people have never heard of it!
The M10 didn't suffer in performance, it leaves an Elise for dead. Effectivly Tiff Nedell rather scuppered it by slating it's looks on fifth gear and various magazines. The deal was done with HiTech before any customer cars were delivered AFAIK.
Bespoke interiors or anything "special" is done in the UK.
The final M12 in the US still has to pass a "SVA" like test, and these vary from state to state so it's not correct to state that it can advoid all legislation.
The M12's body, chassis and trim has always been done in SA - nothing to do with demand making them outsource.
The "200" limit on SVA was abolished some time ago (it was actually 50 in any one year, 100 in any five years) and things changed around dramatically during 1999 & 2000. See www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/publications/sva%20newsletter%20-%20august%202000.pdf for details.
The M14 shares the same basis chassis as the M12, so not sure if the "not an evolution" reads right.
You last three paragraphs are pure speculation and have no real place in a "case study" - you should keep to the facts.
J
thanks Joust lots to be looking at there
although im a little confused about the SVA limit
Vehicle manufactured in very low volume is where:
"the total number of vehicles of the family of types to which the vehicle in question belongs which are manufactured in the world for any period of 12 months falling within the period of 36 months immediately preceding the month in which the vehicle was manufactured does not exceed 200."
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_506874-07.hcsp#P529_41710
so are they limited to 200 or not? im confused
although im a little confused about the SVA limit
Vehicle manufactured in very low volume is where:
"the total number of vehicles of the family of types to which the vehicle in question belongs which are manufactured in the world for any period of 12 months falling within the period of 36 months immediately preceding the month in which the vehicle was manufactured does not exceed 200."
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_506874-07.hcsp#P529_41710
so are they limited to 200 or not? im confused
also wot i meant by "not an evolution" is that the M12 has evolved from the GTO, to the GTO 3R to the M400
where as the M14 - although based on the same platform - is both longer and wider than the M12 and as the price suggests, aimed at a different market (GT cars).
I think your right about the last few paragraphs, but am unsure as to where to put them, may have to cut them i guess.
where as the M14 - although based on the same platform - is both longer and wider than the M12 and as the price suggests, aimed at a different market (GT cars).
I think your right about the last few paragraphs, but am unsure as to where to put them, may have to cut them i guess.
You are just looking at the definitons of that info sheet, not the infosheet itself!
It's all explained in page one of the whole thing
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/pdf/dft_roads_pdf_506874.pdf
If you pass the "enhanced" SVA there is no limit according to that.
J
It's all explained in page one of the whole thing
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/pdf/dft_roads_pdf_506874.pdf
If you pass the "enhanced" SVA there is no limit according to that.
J
In the U.S. the Noble has to pass all safety and emissions regulations that govern specially constructed vehicles / component cars / kit cars in the state in which the car is registered. These regulations are typically much less stringent than the overall U.S. regulations however so it allows non-crash tested vehicles to be imported. Additionally some states have no emissions requirements, others an emissions exemption that can be obtained and finally in some states you MUST pass regardless.
Might want to adjust that section of the paper. ie not so much avoiding the regulations as finding the loopholes to less stringent ones.
>> Edited by mikes_3r on Sunday 15th May 03:25
Might want to adjust that section of the paper. ie not so much avoiding the regulations as finding the loopholes to less stringent ones.
>> Edited by mikes_3r on Sunday 15th May 03:25
I'd like to say that you are making a wonderful product, and hope to be a customer before I get dragged off, screaming and kicking, to PetrolHead heaven. 
silversix said:An interesting point, Mr Bond. One of the initial attractions, to me, of the M12 was its relative practicality (compared to, for instance, the Ultima). But it's not as practical as, say, a 911 Tubro and so owners looking for "practcality" may be disappointed. On the other hand, it's nowhere near as "raw" as an Ultima (especially the CanAm) and if you're looking for afordable-weekend-supercar-thrills, would you not get a bigger buzz out of the sheer impracticality of the Ultima? At the end of the day (as they say) its a compromise design that, perhaps, tries to be too many things to too many people. But it has proven to be a success, which just goes to show that I'm probably talking absolute twaddle. The M14 strikes a better balance IMO; more Porker, less Ultima, but still a proper drivers car.
Ah, but which was better? I've got a sneaky feeling that the Ultima will destroy an M400 in a straight line, but not sure about round twisty stuff, and the Noble is def more practical (but who cares about that?)
Marlon said:How refreshing to see a post that goes "doesn't work for me, but what do I know".
At the end of the day (as they say) its a compromise design that, perhaps, tries to be too many things to too many people. But it has proven to be a success, which just goes to show that I'm probably talking absolute twaddle.
J
All IMHO.
Yes, most ( I say most because there are a couple, so I've heard, with 2ltr Pinto motors
)Ultimas will destroy the M400 in a straight line. The Ultima I borrowed (
Ultimasimon) had 510bhp+200bhp of NOS and was mind bogglingly quick, there are not too many road legal cars in the world it couldn't beat, in a straight line. But the roads are not all straight lines. I honestly feel I could get from A to B quicker in my 3R, maybe it's a confidence thing but I did not feel happy pushing the Utl in bends, and it felt downright flighty at speed. Given the M400 is basicly the same as mine with less compromised suspention and more horsepower, I would expect it to be faster still, from A to B. In the end I'm glad I chose Noble, and sometimes I kick myself for not waiting for an M400. Then I drive on these crap Spanish roads and am glad I didn't! 
Horses for courses. They're both thoroughbreds!
Martin.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Monday 16th May 18:43
Yes, most ( I say most because there are a couple, so I've heard, with 2ltr Pinto motors
)Ultimas will destroy the M400 in a straight line. The Ultima I borrowed ( Ultimasimon) had 510bhp+200bhp of NOS and was mind bogglingly quick, there are not too many road legal cars in the world it couldn't beat, in a straight line. But the roads are not all straight lines. I honestly feel I could get from A to B quicker in my 3R, maybe it's a confidence thing but I did not feel happy pushing the Utl in bends, and it felt downright flighty at speed. Given the M400 is basicly the same as mine with less compromised suspention and more horsepower, I would expect it to be faster still, from A to B. In the end I'm glad I chose Noble, and sometimes I kick myself for not waiting for an M400. Then I drive on these crap Spanish roads and am glad I didn't! Horses for courses. They're both thoroughbreds!
Martin.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Monday 16th May 18:43
Martin,
On the roads round here (dodgy b roads with cow Cr@p on them) I'm pretty sure i could get from A to B quicker in my old Grp N Escort Cossie. however round Donnington the M400 is a LOT quicker. I'm still getting used to RWD, as all previous cars apart from the Megabird have been either FWD or 4wd. If you want a quick A to B car, buy a group B rally monster (i really do want a 6R4 at some point). I bought the M400 because the wife refused to take no lugage to Le Mans, and I needed the car to be ready for June. I was VERY tempted by the Can Am Ted took me out in, BUT have you actually priced one up. With all the bits I wanted, and a 700BHP American speed engine you're looking at £70k plus build time. i will build one though, just not this year.....
On the roads round here (dodgy b roads with cow Cr@p on them) I'm pretty sure i could get from A to B quicker in my old Grp N Escort Cossie. however round Donnington the M400 is a LOT quicker. I'm still getting used to RWD, as all previous cars apart from the Megabird have been either FWD or 4wd. If you want a quick A to B car, buy a group B rally monster (i really do want a 6R4 at some point). I bought the M400 because the wife refused to take no lugage to Le Mans, and I needed the car to be ready for June. I was VERY tempted by the Can Am Ted took me out in, BUT have you actually priced one up. With all the bits I wanted, and a 700BHP American speed engine you're looking at £70k plus build time. i will build one though, just not this year.....
Ultima Factory said:
Paps-
In response to your request for feedback on your article it appears that you have a decimal point in the wrong place-
Lee actually only supplied 20 or so Ultima kits during the time he was marketing the project between 1982 and 1992 and not the 200 that you state.
Also Lee just sold the patterns, jigs and rights to the Ultima and not a company.
I might say that my corrections are in no way intended to diminish Lee’s fabulous achievements over the years and I will always be indebted to him for allowing me to take the Ultima project on to new heights.
Ted Marlow
Managing Director
Ultima Sports Ltd
I believe NobleLondon (actually, looks like Nobles actual site) is therefore incorrect. Look on thier website and then click on "marque".
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