Dementia and equity release
Discussion
Apologies in advance for the lengthy post...
My mum's in her early 60s and was diagnosed with early onset of dementia in 2012. She lives alone in her own home, and as the years have gone on she's progressively gotten worse. Sadly she's unable to have any sort of conversation, can't cook or even make a cup of tea, or have a shower etc unaided. Fortunately when she's with company she's generally very happy and content. And whilst she struggles to articulate what she's feeling and thinks, her emotions are still well in tact and she's in tune with what's going on around her.
At the moment she has carers go in at varying points throughout the day to help with cooking and cleaning etc, in addition to social support/visits to keep her company, all of which has been means tested and is funded by the local authority through the means of personal independent allowances etc. Family and friends are also extremely supportive and there's not a great deal of time where she's alone.
Despite all this my mum's begun to get upset when people leave and now gets very anxious and tearful when it comes to spending the night alone. Having met the social worker for another assessment - they're essentially the gatekeepers to funding based on what they assess the needs to be - I think it'll not be long before additional funding for care in her own home will be capped. I was told in the last review that overnight care is also highly unlikely.
So we're going to be at a cross roads soon enough. We've looked at specialist care homes and it's evident even by the social worker's admission that she's far too young to be there, would likely go into rapid decline in that environment and is nowhere near as advanced as the residents. I'd never visited one until recently and they're truly harrowing places.
I'm also ruling out her going into sheltered accommodation. The flats seem to stay on the market for years, the care isn't included and there's also a service charge of £300-400 a month on top of this which can be ill-afforded. I don't see what this move would gain.
I have no interest in inheritance, without meaning to sound disrespectful to what my mum's worked for, and want every penny to go towards care. I have power of attorney both medically and financially. I'm running out of options with what to do next in terms of trying to prolong her relative happiness and relieve some of the anxiety of being alone, without the likelihood there'll be no more authority funding in her own home.
My mum's only asset is her property which is owned outright and worth maybe £150K. I'm considering equity release to free up some money for paid care. I don't know the medium to long term implications when it comes to financial assessments for care home funding, and me having taken a big chunk of capital out which ultimately the state would have otherwise gained from in the future.
I'm at a bit of a loss with what's best to do and what the implications are. I'm conscious that I can't afford to get this decision wrong and I've only really got one shot at getting it right.
I'd be enormously grateful if anyone's had any personal or professional experience of this sort of situation.
Thanks in advance.
My mum's in her early 60s and was diagnosed with early onset of dementia in 2012. She lives alone in her own home, and as the years have gone on she's progressively gotten worse. Sadly she's unable to have any sort of conversation, can't cook or even make a cup of tea, or have a shower etc unaided. Fortunately when she's with company she's generally very happy and content. And whilst she struggles to articulate what she's feeling and thinks, her emotions are still well in tact and she's in tune with what's going on around her.
At the moment she has carers go in at varying points throughout the day to help with cooking and cleaning etc, in addition to social support/visits to keep her company, all of which has been means tested and is funded by the local authority through the means of personal independent allowances etc. Family and friends are also extremely supportive and there's not a great deal of time where she's alone.
Despite all this my mum's begun to get upset when people leave and now gets very anxious and tearful when it comes to spending the night alone. Having met the social worker for another assessment - they're essentially the gatekeepers to funding based on what they assess the needs to be - I think it'll not be long before additional funding for care in her own home will be capped. I was told in the last review that overnight care is also highly unlikely.
So we're going to be at a cross roads soon enough. We've looked at specialist care homes and it's evident even by the social worker's admission that she's far too young to be there, would likely go into rapid decline in that environment and is nowhere near as advanced as the residents. I'd never visited one until recently and they're truly harrowing places.
I'm also ruling out her going into sheltered accommodation. The flats seem to stay on the market for years, the care isn't included and there's also a service charge of £300-400 a month on top of this which can be ill-afforded. I don't see what this move would gain.
I have no interest in inheritance, without meaning to sound disrespectful to what my mum's worked for, and want every penny to go towards care. I have power of attorney both medically and financially. I'm running out of options with what to do next in terms of trying to prolong her relative happiness and relieve some of the anxiety of being alone, without the likelihood there'll be no more authority funding in her own home.
My mum's only asset is her property which is owned outright and worth maybe £150K. I'm considering equity release to free up some money for paid care. I don't know the medium to long term implications when it comes to financial assessments for care home funding, and me having taken a big chunk of capital out which ultimately the state would have otherwise gained from in the future.
I'm at a bit of a loss with what's best to do and what the implications are. I'm conscious that I can't afford to get this decision wrong and I've only really got one shot at getting it right.
I'd be enormously grateful if anyone's had any personal or professional experience of this sort of situation.
Thanks in advance.
I am truly sorry to hear you circumstances (and obviously those of your Mum). That is such an early age for this.
My best mate is going through a similar thing with his Mum and is staying the night with me on Tuesday. I will certainly ask him and pass back all feedback to you here.
All the very best,
Julian
My best mate is going through a similar thing with his Mum and is staying the night with me on Tuesday. I will certainly ask him and pass back all feedback to you here.
All the very best,
Julian
JulianPH said:
I am truly sorry to hear you circumstances (and obviously those of your Mum). That is such an early age for this.
My best mate is going through a similar thing with his Mum and is staying the night with me on Tuesday. I will certainly ask him and pass back all feedback to you here.
All the very best,
Julian
Thank you. Very good of you.My best mate is going through a similar thing with his Mum and is staying the night with me on Tuesday. I will certainly ask him and pass back all feedback to you here.
All the very best,
Julian
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Other siblings haven't volunteered and I don't want to pressurise or make suggestions on their behalf. Though in fairness some of them either stay over or have my mum stay at theirs. I also live an hour and a half away otherwise would sleep there a few nights a week.Hi
I know exactly what you are going through and feel so sorry for you and for the problems you have ahead, I have the T shirt. My wife was diagnosed in late 2014, she was 60 at the time and was diagnosed with earlier onset Dementia with Frontal Temporal Lobe. She has deteriorated very fast and is now in a care home, she doesnt recognise me or my three sons as who we are, she knows that she knows our faces but that is it. She is totaly incontintent, she needs feeding and needs 24 hr care. My sons were/are still devastated, i was in pieces when we got the diagnosis but stood up to it and met it head on and have learned so much during the last 4 or 5 years. I have been through what you are about to go through, if you want to chat or get some info from me i am will to help you as much as is possible. Drop me an email to make contact and we can chat off of the thread, if thats OK with you. I really dont want to "air my washing" on this forum but will try to point you in the right direction if that helps.
Martin
I know exactly what you are going through and feel so sorry for you and for the problems you have ahead, I have the T shirt. My wife was diagnosed in late 2014, she was 60 at the time and was diagnosed with earlier onset Dementia with Frontal Temporal Lobe. She has deteriorated very fast and is now in a care home, she doesnt recognise me or my three sons as who we are, she knows that she knows our faces but that is it. She is totaly incontintent, she needs feeding and needs 24 hr care. My sons were/are still devastated, i was in pieces when we got the diagnosis but stood up to it and met it head on and have learned so much during the last 4 or 5 years. I have been through what you are about to go through, if you want to chat or get some info from me i am will to help you as much as is possible. Drop me an email to make contact and we can chat off of the thread, if thats OK with you. I really dont want to "air my washing" on this forum but will try to point you in the right direction if that helps.
Martin
OP,
It must be very upsetting. This may be a useful resource.
https://societyoflaterlifeadvisers.co.uk
It must be very upsetting. This may be a useful resource.
https://societyoflaterlifeadvisers.co.uk
Ginge R said:
OP,
It must be very upsetting. This may be a useful resource.
https://societyoflaterlifeadvisers.co.uk
Sorry but as soon as i see the words "see how much we charge" i would be looking elsewhere, if you get social services involved then ask them to get a Local Authority Financial Assessment done (its all free) the LA assessor will take you through the process and the paperwork, I know as I have had to do it for my wife, it really isnt difficult. It worked out very well for my wife as she was assessed to require the top level of payments and was awarded over £500 per month from the LA to assist with care visits to home and people coming round to help. Dont let these "ambulance chasers" take your money.It must be very upsetting. This may be a useful resource.
https://societyoflaterlifeadvisers.co.uk
This is always such a difficult and challenging thing that so many of us face... sorry you're going through it.
I guess much will depend on your mothers overall health - she could go on for years, in which case a costly (and it is costly I fear) equity release won't last long and then you'll be stuck.
In my case, my MiL is a healthy, but dementia ridden, 90 year old. She appears to be in rude health and could go on for years. However... she has assets - £150k in cash and a house worth £400k. She has been moved into an expensive care home - against her will - and has been told 'it's only for a week whilst the house is cleaned'. She's been there 6 months and has no idea. It is so sad to tell her lies, but there's no way we (or she) can manage without bending the truth. We estimate her assets will last around 7 years, if she lives beyond this, we are stuffed.
None of which helps you.
The only alternative, it seems, is that one of her children (you) might have to seriously consider looking after her and have her move in. Would the £150k from her house sale build an annex? Would having her with you cause pressure in your own family?
It's a nightmare.... but I can't help but feel that equity release is not the answer. When you burn through the cash you will be stuck - and at your mums age, she could live another 20 years. And it's this ghastly estimation of her length of life that you need to consider when running the numbers.
You have my sympathies.
ETA - as Phumy mentions above, home visits can be good. We did this for about 3 years with my MiL - meals on wheels, a nurse etc. She had around 3 visitors a day. But then she was leaving meals uneaten and not getting out of bed. It works for a while.
I guess much will depend on your mothers overall health - she could go on for years, in which case a costly (and it is costly I fear) equity release won't last long and then you'll be stuck.
In my case, my MiL is a healthy, but dementia ridden, 90 year old. She appears to be in rude health and could go on for years. However... she has assets - £150k in cash and a house worth £400k. She has been moved into an expensive care home - against her will - and has been told 'it's only for a week whilst the house is cleaned'. She's been there 6 months and has no idea. It is so sad to tell her lies, but there's no way we (or she) can manage without bending the truth. We estimate her assets will last around 7 years, if she lives beyond this, we are stuffed.
None of which helps you.
The only alternative, it seems, is that one of her children (you) might have to seriously consider looking after her and have her move in. Would the £150k from her house sale build an annex? Would having her with you cause pressure in your own family?
It's a nightmare.... but I can't help but feel that equity release is not the answer. When you burn through the cash you will be stuck - and at your mums age, she could live another 20 years. And it's this ghastly estimation of her length of life that you need to consider when running the numbers.
You have my sympathies.
ETA - as Phumy mentions above, home visits can be good. We did this for about 3 years with my MiL - meals on wheels, a nurse etc. She had around 3 visitors a day. But then she was leaving meals uneaten and not getting out of bed. It works for a while.
Edited by NDA on Tuesday 22 January 08:53
NDA said:
This is always such a difficult and challenging thing that so many of us face... sorry you're going through it.
I guess much will depend on your mothers overall health - she could go on for years, in which case a costly (and it is costly I fear) equity release won't last long and then you'll be stuck.
In my case, my MiL is a healthy, but dementia ridden, 90 year old. She appears to be in rude health and could go on for years. However... she has assets - £150k in cash and a house worth £400k. She has been moved into an expensive care home - against her will - and has been told 'it's only for a week whilst the house is cleaned'. She's been there 6 months and has no idea. It is so sad to tell her lies, but there's no way we (or she) can manage without bending the truth. We estimate her assets will last around 7 years, if she lives beyond this, we are stuffed.
None of which helps you.
The only alternative, it seems, is that one of her children (you) might have to seriously consider looking after her and have her move in. Would the £150k from her house sale build an annex? Would having her with you cause pressure in your own family?
It's a nightmare.... but I can't help but feel that equity release is not the answer. When you burn through the cash you will be stuck - and at your mums age, she could live another 20 years. And it's this ghastly estimation of her length of life that you need to consider when running the numbers.
You have my sympathies.
ETA - as Phumy mentions above, home visits can be good. We did this for about 3 years with my MiL - meals on wheels, a nurse etc. She had around 3 visitors a day. But then she was leaving meals uneaten and not getting out of bed. It works for a while.
NDA you wont be stuffed if she out-lives her assets as the local authority will be duty bound to pay for her care once her assests are at a level of around £23.5K, ironically she is allowed to keep that.I guess much will depend on your mothers overall health - she could go on for years, in which case a costly (and it is costly I fear) equity release won't last long and then you'll be stuck.
In my case, my MiL is a healthy, but dementia ridden, 90 year old. She appears to be in rude health and could go on for years. However... she has assets - £150k in cash and a house worth £400k. She has been moved into an expensive care home - against her will - and has been told 'it's only for a week whilst the house is cleaned'. She's been there 6 months and has no idea. It is so sad to tell her lies, but there's no way we (or she) can manage without bending the truth. We estimate her assets will last around 7 years, if she lives beyond this, we are stuffed.
None of which helps you.
The only alternative, it seems, is that one of her children (you) might have to seriously consider looking after her and have her move in. Would the £150k from her house sale build an annex? Would having her with you cause pressure in your own family?
It's a nightmare.... but I can't help but feel that equity release is not the answer. When you burn through the cash you will be stuck - and at your mums age, she could live another 20 years. And it's this ghastly estimation of her length of life that you need to consider when running the numbers.
You have my sympathies.
ETA - as Phumy mentions above, home visits can be good. We did this for about 3 years with my MiL - meals on wheels, a nurse etc. She had around 3 visitors a day. But then she was leaving meals uneaten and not getting out of bed. It works for a while.
Edited by NDA on Tuesday 22 January 08:53
phumy said:
NDA you wont be stuffed if she out-lives her assets as the local authority will be duty bound to pay for her care once her assests are at a level of around £23.5K, ironically she is allowed to keep that.
I assume she'd have to be moved into a state home? We were talking about this the other day and have no idea what happens - I doubt the state would cover where she is.Thanks....
NDA said:
phumy said:
NDA you wont be stuffed if she out-lives her assets as the local authority will be duty bound to pay for her care once her assests are at a level of around £23.5K, ironically she is allowed to keep that.
I assume she'd have to be moved into a state home? We were talking about this the other day and have no idea what happens - I doubt the state would cover where she is.Thanks....
NDA said:
I assume she'd have to be moved into a state home?
Do any still exist?Private places often take local authority funded residents - the place my mum was in had 25 residents, only her and a bloke (former dentist) were paying for themselves. Annoyingly many will accept a lower rate from the council funders than from those privately funding.
I know it's very difficult to get but with full on dementure the NHS should pay under Continuing Healthcare.
phumy said:
NDA you wont be stuffed if she out-lives her assets as the local authority will be duty bound to pay for her care once her assests are at a level of around £23.5K, ironically she is allowed to keep that.
Slightly academic but you stop paying for care when assets reach £14kish, between £23k and £14k the resident is still partially responsible for costs.I part-own an independent equity release brokerage. I am happy to put you in touch with the MD of it for a chat. There would be absolutely no selling and no pressure to explore any further than an initial chat to explore what's involved.
You're welcome to PM me if interested and no offence whatsoever if not.
You're welcome to PM me if interested and no offence whatsoever if not.
NDA said:
I assume she'd have to be moved into a state home? We were talking about this the other day and have no idea what happens - I doubt the state would cover where she is.
Thanks....
I think, they will cover up to the amount they would for a state home, but you could top the rest up. So if they will fund £700pw, but the place she's in is £900, you can pay the £200 for her to stay there.Thanks....
For the OP, does she get any benefits and pensions etc? It's all taken in to account, so the £150k might go a bit further than expected, but you'll probably still be looking at £700pw +.
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