Pension question regarding pot value?
Discussion
My ex and I are sorting out our clean break clause in our divorce and although we have sorted everything ourselves amicably to get it through we have to declare pensions etc even though we don't want to claim against each other.
Here we have a problem. My fund value is easy but she has 4 different pensions. 3 of them are straightforward but her teachers pension wont give her a fund value at the moment as the government are looking into their calculations and they cant tell her when they can do it. Is it possible from the following figures to estimate the pot as it stands today.
Total Annual Pension Amount (See breakdown below) £4,513.59
Tax Free lump sum (80th Scheme arrangements only) £10,082.46
Arrangement Normal Pension Age Normal Pension Date Annual Pension Amount 80th Final Salary
60 years 17/06/2036 £3,360.82
Career Average 67 years 17/06/2043 £1,152.77
This is all it tells us but we have to provide a pot value today. All the calculators on line give you a projection. We have that but is it possible to work backwards or am i asking the impossible?
We just need to come with a figure that this equates to 30k, 40k, 50k whatever it is to declare to the court even though we dont was to challenge or share it
Here we have a problem. My fund value is easy but she has 4 different pensions. 3 of them are straightforward but her teachers pension wont give her a fund value at the moment as the government are looking into their calculations and they cant tell her when they can do it. Is it possible from the following figures to estimate the pot as it stands today.
Total Annual Pension Amount (See breakdown below) £4,513.59
Tax Free lump sum (80th Scheme arrangements only) £10,082.46
Arrangement Normal Pension Age Normal Pension Date Annual Pension Amount 80th Final Salary
60 years 17/06/2036 £3,360.82
Career Average 67 years 17/06/2043 £1,152.77
This is all it tells us but we have to provide a pot value today. All the calculators on line give you a projection. We have that but is it possible to work backwards or am i asking the impossible?
We just need to come with a figure that this equates to 30k, 40k, 50k whatever it is to declare to the court even though we dont was to challenge or share it
interstellar said:
My ex and I are sorting out our clean break clause in our divorce and although we have sorted everything ourselves amicably to get it through we have to declare pensions etc even though we don't want to claim against each other.
Here we have a problem. My fund value is easy but she has 4 different pensions. 3 of them are straightforward but her teachers pension wont give her a fund value at the moment as the government are looking into their calculations and they cant tell her when they can do it. Is it possible from the following figures to estimate the pot as it stands today.
Total Annual Pension Amount (See breakdown below) £4,513.59
Tax Free lump sum (80th Scheme arrangements only) £10,082.46
Arrangement Normal Pension Age Normal Pension Date Annual Pension Amount 80th Final Salary
60 years 17/06/2036 £3,360.82
Career Average 67 years 17/06/2043 £1,152.77
This is all it tells us but we have to provide a pot value today. All the calculators on line give you a projection. We have that but is it possible to work backwards or am i asking the impossible?
We just need to come with a figure that this equates to 30k, 40k, 50k whatever it is to declare to the court even though we dont was to challenge or share it
Circa £160-£180k would be a reasonable starting point, in the absence of extra information.Here we have a problem. My fund value is easy but she has 4 different pensions. 3 of them are straightforward but her teachers pension wont give her a fund value at the moment as the government are looking into their calculations and they cant tell her when they can do it. Is it possible from the following figures to estimate the pot as it stands today.
Total Annual Pension Amount (See breakdown below) £4,513.59
Tax Free lump sum (80th Scheme arrangements only) £10,082.46
Arrangement Normal Pension Age Normal Pension Date Annual Pension Amount 80th Final Salary
60 years 17/06/2036 £3,360.82
Career Average 67 years 17/06/2043 £1,152.77
This is all it tells us but we have to provide a pot value today. All the calculators on line give you a projection. We have that but is it possible to work backwards or am i asking the impossible?
We just need to come with a figure that this equates to 30k, 40k, 50k whatever it is to declare to the court even though we dont was to challenge or share it
Edited by Btlguru on Thursday 24th January 09:49
What you need from Teachers' Pensions is the capital equivalent transfer value (CETV) of your pension accrued up to the date of divorce. This gives the value you're seeking. As has been said already, there is no "pension pot" because the Teachers' Pension Scheme is a final salary/defined benefits arrangement.
As far as divorce is concerned, the Courts will want to see how all your own and your wife's respective pension values (CETVs) are going to be treated and "shared" between you if that's the intention; normally it is. The Courts will then issue a Pensions Sharing Order (PSO) and you both need to go back to the pension providers with the PSO and get the PSO implemented.
Note that "shared" does not necessarily mean 50/50. The eventual share will also depend on how the two of you agree to split all your other assets.
Do not underestimate the CETVs of the pensions. They can be very substantial, and may easily be the second most valued asset you have between you. It is therefore essential to get formal Court sanctioned agreement on the how the CETVs are to be shared between you.
R
As far as divorce is concerned, the Courts will want to see how all your own and your wife's respective pension values (CETVs) are going to be treated and "shared" between you if that's the intention; normally it is. The Courts will then issue a Pensions Sharing Order (PSO) and you both need to go back to the pension providers with the PSO and get the PSO implemented.
Note that "shared" does not necessarily mean 50/50. The eventual share will also depend on how the two of you agree to split all your other assets.
Do not underestimate the CETVs of the pensions. They can be very substantial, and may easily be the second most valued asset you have between you. It is therefore essential to get formal Court sanctioned agreement on the how the CETVs are to be shared between you.
R
The Leaper said:
What you need from Teachers' Pensions is the capital equivalent transfer value (CETV) of your pension accrued up to the date of divorce. This gives the value you're seeking. As has been said already, there is no "pension pot" because the Teachers' Pension Scheme is a final salary/defined benefits arrangement.
As far as divorce is concerned, the Courts will want to see how all your own and your wife's respective pension values (CETVs) are going to be treated and "shared" between you if that's the intention; normally it is. The Courts will then issue a Pensions Sharing Order (PSO) and you both need to go back to the pension providers with the PSO and get the PSO implemented.
Note that "shared" does not necessarily mean 50/50. The eventual share will also depend on how the two of you agree to split all your other assets.
Do not underestimate the CETVs of the pensions. They can be very substantial, and may easily be the second most valued asset you have between you. It is therefore essential to get formal Court sanctioned agreement on the how the CETVs are to be shared between you.
R
Thanks. We are not contesting anything and have sorted out everything but want a clean break order to protect each other from future claims that’s all.As far as divorce is concerned, the Courts will want to see how all your own and your wife's respective pension values (CETVs) are going to be treated and "shared" between you if that's the intention; normally it is. The Courts will then issue a Pensions Sharing Order (PSO) and you both need to go back to the pension providers with the PSO and get the PSO implemented.
Note that "shared" does not necessarily mean 50/50. The eventual share will also depend on how the two of you agree to split all your other assets.
Do not underestimate the CETVs of the pensions. They can be very substantial, and may easily be the second most valued asset you have between you. It is therefore essential to get formal Court sanctioned agreement on the how the CETVs are to be shared between you.
R
We just need the current value to supply the court and the teachers pension people can’t give her a figure as the government are reviewing how it’s calculated which is delaying our clean break going through.
It’s all for nothing really but we need the transfer amount just to make the form complete.
Edited by interstellar on Thursday 24th January 10:37
interstellar said:
Thanks all. A fellow member on here has helped out so thank you to julianph!!!
No problem mate. Just spoken to Nik and told him it doesn't need to be down to the last penny, simply a professional assumption based upon the information available, to put in the relevant box for Form E disclosure (the nightmare form!).He will be back to you on Monday and it looks like others were starting at the wrong point (the projected retirements benefits - not the current accumulated value today) so the real figure should be very, very much lower (perhaps just £25k? Nik will confirm on Monday).
Cheers
Julian
JulianPH said:
No problem mate. Just spoken to Nik and told him it doesn't need to be down to the last penny, simply a professional assumption based upon the information available, to put in the relevant box for Form E disclosure (the nightmare form!).
He will be back to you on Monday and it looks like others were starting at the wrong point (the projected retirements benefits - not the current accumulated value today) so the real figure should be very, very much lower (perhaps just £25k? Nik will confirm on Monday).
Cheers
Julian
JulianHe will be back to you on Monday and it looks like others were starting at the wrong point (the projected retirements benefits - not the current accumulated value today) so the real figure should be very, very much lower (perhaps just £25k? Nik will confirm on Monday).
Cheers
Julian
Of course, my number is nonsense! Despite the OP clarifying my calculation, I still quoted the purchase price for a pension starting immediately, not one starting in x years' time. However, I don't think the OP told us what 'x' was.
Having said that, I don't see the deferral doing more than halve the number I came up with, certainly not 1/6 or 1/7 !
Edited by Btlguru on Friday 25th January 19:09
Btlguru said:
Julian
Of course, my number is nonsense! Despite the OP clarifying my calculation, I still quoted the purchase price for a pension starting immediately, not one starting in x years' time. However, I don't think the OP told us what 'x' was.
Having said that, I don't see the deferral doing more than halve the number I came up with, certainly not 1/6 or 1/7 !
Hi BtlguruOf course, my number is nonsense! Despite the OP clarifying my calculation, I still quoted the purchase price for a pension starting immediately, not one starting in x years' time. However, I don't think the OP told us what 'x' was.
Having said that, I don't see the deferral doing more than halve the number I came up with, certainly not 1/6 or 1/7 !
Edited by Btlguru on Friday 25th January 19:09
I made that assumption based upon the very large discrepancy!
I've no idea what the number will actually be, but Nik has further private information from the OP that will enable him to give a pretty accurate picture by Monday, so we can find out then!
Cheers
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