Oil Consumption of Modern Petrol Cars
Discussion
Just read the piece about buying an R56 Mini which touched on something that got me thinking.
The article stated that the Mini can use up to 1 litre of oil every 1,000 miles. What up to 12 litres of oil a year?
Now maybe I am missing something but is that level of consumption really bad/expensive cost? I am sure it doesnt only apply to oldish or highish miles cars but even new ones.
Growing up with old cars from the 90s/00s you get a service done with fresh oil and provided the motor was in good fettle with no leaks you wouldnt really need to top up for ages. certainly not a litre every 1000 miles which is no miles these days.
whats the science behind such high consumption of oil - usually drinking oil is a sign of a badly worn engine that might need rings or valve stem oil seals etc.
is the engine "burning" that oil and if so why isnt that burning of oil classed as a sign of a mechanical problem which you normally would when consumption is high. Is 1 litre per 1000 miles not classed as high these days ? To me it sounds really bad.
Plenty of threads abound on more recent cars such as Mk7 Golf etc.
The article stated that the Mini can use up to 1 litre of oil every 1,000 miles. What up to 12 litres of oil a year?
Now maybe I am missing something but is that level of consumption really bad/expensive cost? I am sure it doesnt only apply to oldish or highish miles cars but even new ones.
Growing up with old cars from the 90s/00s you get a service done with fresh oil and provided the motor was in good fettle with no leaks you wouldnt really need to top up for ages. certainly not a litre every 1000 miles which is no miles these days.
whats the science behind such high consumption of oil - usually drinking oil is a sign of a badly worn engine that might need rings or valve stem oil seals etc.
is the engine "burning" that oil and if so why isnt that burning of oil classed as a sign of a mechanical problem which you normally would when consumption is high. Is 1 litre per 1000 miles not classed as high these days ? To me it sounds really bad.
Plenty of threads abound on more recent cars such as Mk7 Golf etc.
It's to cover themselves when the owner doesn't check the oil. Alfa Twin Sparks had the same wording on a sticker on the inside of the windscreen. It's unlikely they will use this amount of oil, but it's possible. VW diesels used to like a drink of oil too, especially on long life stuff. They sell 1 litre top ups in a bag and there is a special place in the boot to velcro it in. They think of everything those VW guys... 
ToothbrushMan said:
Growing up with old cars from the 90s/00s you get a service done with fresh oil and provided the motor was in good fettle with no leaks you wouldnt really need to top up for ages. certainly not a litre every 1000 miles which is no miles these days.
whats the science behind such high consumption of oil - usually drinking oil is a sign of a badly worn engine that might need rings or valve stem oil seals etc.
is the engine "burning" that oil and if so why isnt that burning of oil classed as a sign of a mechanical problem which you normally would when consumption is high. Is 1 litre per 1000 miles not classed as high these days ? To me it sounds really bad.
It's mostly down to reducing engine friction with slightly less tight piston rings. See John Cadogan's video: https://youtu.be/xa1kqSo3aeMwhats the science behind such high consumption of oil - usually drinking oil is a sign of a badly worn engine that might need rings or valve stem oil seals etc.
is the engine "burning" that oil and if so why isnt that burning of oil classed as a sign of a mechanical problem which you normally would when consumption is high. Is 1 litre per 1000 miles not classed as high these days ? To me it sounds really bad.
A lot of modern petrol engines use oil. The cost is negligible; the problem is anything which requires people to do any sort of maintenance between services often wont get done so such engines often end up being run on low oil which damages them.
Our Octavia is a case in point. When we bought it at about 5 years old it had a slight knock from the bottom-end (which I annoyingly didn't notice on the test drive). It's now 13 years old and hasn't got any worse so I'm convinced the original owner must have run it low on oil at some point. The consumption itself doesn't bother me in the slightest, it costs maybe £20 a year extra in oil (ours uses something like 1 litre per 3000 miles) and takes ten minutes once a month to check the level and top it up if necessary.
Our Octavia is a case in point. When we bought it at about 5 years old it had a slight knock from the bottom-end (which I annoyingly didn't notice on the test drive). It's now 13 years old and hasn't got any worse so I'm convinced the original owner must have run it low on oil at some point. The consumption itself doesn't bother me in the slightest, it costs maybe £20 a year extra in oil (ours uses something like 1 litre per 3000 miles) and takes ten minutes once a month to check the level and top it up if necessary.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 31st January 10:42
bmwmike said:
As said above, they basically make the engines half worn out from the factory. Well not exactly but the gaps etc are bigger so the friction is lower. I always wondered why burning oil doesn't increase emissions though...
It does, but the amount of particulate matter produced by burning a litre of oil over thousands of miles is negligible compared to that produced by burning the fuel itself. kambites said:
A lot of modern petrol engines use oil. The cost is negligible; the problem is anything which requires people to do any sort of maintenance between services often wont get done so such engines often end up being run on low oil which damages them.
I agree but it isn't as simple to check the oil anymore. I used to run the engine a few minutes and pull out the dipstick, see where it was between the lines, job done.Edited by kambites on Thursday 31st January 10:41
Last time I had to get the manual out and then dig through multiple menus as there is no longer a dipstick. End result is it doesn't get checked very often and I will rely on an oil warning level being shown. Never seen one yet and to be honest it is not my pride and joy so don't really care. I imagine most people have similar viewpoints, this site is an edge-case.
cb31 said:
I agree but it isn't as simple to check the oil anymore. I used to run the engine a few minutes and pull out the dipstick, see where it was between the lines, job done.
Last time I had to get the manual out and then dig through multiple menus as there is no longer a dipstick. End result is it doesn't get checked very often and I will rely on an oil warning level being shown. Never seen one yet and to be honest it is not my pride and joy so don't really care. I imagine most people have similar viewpoints, this site is an edge-case.
Surely cars without physical dipsticks all have low oil level warning lights? Last time I had to get the manual out and then dig through multiple menus as there is no longer a dipstick. End result is it doesn't get checked very often and I will rely on an oil warning level being shown. Never seen one yet and to be honest it is not my pride and joy so don't really care. I imagine most people have similar viewpoints, this site is an edge-case.
What's irritating is that in a car such as the afore mentioned MINI, there is no low oil level alarm/light (in this case a 2011 Countryman Cooper S). Yes, there is a dipstick, but it's the world's worst dipstick to read! Plus it has to be read "hot" which is a can of worms at the best of times. My M54 engine in my 530i is similarly oil thirsty, but I just check it every fuel stop and it actually has little notches and a flat face so reading that dipstick isn't completely awful.
By contrast, my good old 520i with its M50 engine uses barely a drop between services.
By contrast, my good old 520i with its M50 engine uses barely a drop between services.
Edited by Triumph Man on Thursday 31st January 11:19
Well, Ive got an App now, thats what the world has come to. An app I can check at my desk to see how much oil Ive got. I can also use it whilst sat in the car because its quicker than going through the cars menus to find it. Theyve spent more time making software so they can remove my dispstick
I remember when Audi had issues last decade with the TFSI engine and excessive oil consumption, that this was due to a design intended to improve MPG and emissions ratings?
I’m wondering if the same perhaps is the case for other modern engines which use more oil than our old faves from 20 years ago
I’m wondering if the same perhaps is the case for other modern engines which use more oil than our old faves from 20 years ago
Our old Grande Punto 1.4 petrol used to use a litre every 4-5k miles, I always thought that was quite excessive as it only took about 3.3 litres for oil and filter change. Don't think there was anything wrong with it- bought at 12k and sold at 55k without any trouble, never leaked or smoked.. Changed the oil and filter just before I sold it and gave the buyer the can with the remaining oil and told him to check and top up regular, nearly cost me a sale! Had to then convince him it was ok..
Also, always amazes me just how low some cars can run without seizing, can remember a mate had a Nova 1.3 SR about 20 years ago, he pulled up with an awful top end rattle one day, said it had been getting worse for a few days. He hadn't thought to check his oil (for months).
Checked it and nothing on dipstick, drove him to the garage and he bought a litre, put it in and it barely registered. Had to go back for more- it took about 2.5 litres to come up to level. Cam rattle quietened down too with no lasting damage which was also surprising.
Also, always amazes me just how low some cars can run without seizing, can remember a mate had a Nova 1.3 SR about 20 years ago, he pulled up with an awful top end rattle one day, said it had been getting worse for a few days. He hadn't thought to check his oil (for months).
Checked it and nothing on dipstick, drove him to the garage and he bought a litre, put it in and it barely registered. Had to go back for more- it took about 2.5 litres to come up to level. Cam rattle quietened down too with no lasting damage which was also surprising.
Mercutio said:
I remember when Audi had issues last decade with the TFSI engine and excessive oil consumption, that this was due to a design intended to improve MPG and emissions ratings?
I’m wondering if the same perhaps is the case for other modern engines which use more oil than our old faves from 20 years ago
One of the problems VW had was the introduction of long life oil. The first owners of the cars drove them gently and the engines never bedded in properly. 60,000 miles later (usually another owner down the line) and the engines were drinking oil. It was hit and miss though. The first owner might have thrashed the nuts off it and those engines were OK as they had run in, but if the first owner was a retired Mum who pottered to the shops and back, the engine had no chance.I’m wondering if the same perhaps is the case for other modern engines which use more oil than our old faves from 20 years ago
I've owned
Corsa 1.4
Golf Mk5 1.9 TDI (tuned to 220hp)
Golf Mk5 GTI (tuned to 260hp)
VW Scirocco 2.0 TDI (tuned to 400hp)
Seat Altea (tuned to 170hp)
Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost 140 (stock)
BMW m135i (stock)
None of these cars use any oil worth mentioning (maybe a 500ml top up in between services).
But even if so does it really matter? You should be checking oil weekly and if anything means you are getting more fresh oil...
Corsa 1.4
Golf Mk5 1.9 TDI (tuned to 220hp)
Golf Mk5 GTI (tuned to 260hp)
VW Scirocco 2.0 TDI (tuned to 400hp)
Seat Altea (tuned to 170hp)
Fiesta 1.0 Ecoboost 140 (stock)
BMW m135i (stock)
None of these cars use any oil worth mentioning (maybe a 500ml top up in between services).
But even if so does it really matter? You should be checking oil weekly and if anything means you are getting more fresh oil...
Edited by xjay1337 on Thursday 31st January 14:09
My M140i has no dipstick, and the oil is checked (with the engine running) through an iDrive menu. It takes about a minute to measure the reading. It's never budged off Max, so it either the engine doesn't use oil, or the system lies.
The N47 diesel in the MINI has a conventional dipstick, and this drops from Max to about half way over 10,000 miles or so. Negligible use.
Our old PD130 Golf used to use about half a litre between 9000 mile services.
I can only recall having one car that guzzled oil and that was a 1.9 diesel Polo. From max to min on the dipstick only took about 2,500 miles. We bought it off a family member who'd owned it from new, and it had never been any different.
The N47 diesel in the MINI has a conventional dipstick, and this drops from Max to about half way over 10,000 miles or so. Negligible use.
Our old PD130 Golf used to use about half a litre between 9000 mile services.
I can only recall having one car that guzzled oil and that was a 1.9 diesel Polo. From max to min on the dipstick only took about 2,500 miles. We bought it off a family member who'd owned it from new, and it had never been any different.
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