Debt collector threats for someone else
Discussion
Hi all,
Following on from another thread, and based on a letter we've had through the post, I just wanted some collective thoughts on an issue.
My wife and I received a letter through the post from a debt collection agency - Court Enforcement Services - addressed to my brother-in-laws girlfriend. Around three years ago, the pair of them lodged with us for several months whilst they sorted themselves out with their own property. We have now seen the letter and it refers to an energy company debt of £1,200, a 'High Court Writ of Control', and states that enforcement agents WILL be visiting out property over the coming days to seize goods.
We obviously don't want people calling round in this manner, so my wife called the debt collection company this morning and explained that we own the property, that the person named on the letter did not live here, and that we would appreciate not being bothered by debt collectors calling at our address.
The company replied that they could not take my wife's word for it, and that unless we sent a copy of our mortgage agreement to them, they would assume that it was the correct address and someone would be visiting us shortly. At that point we would have to prove (1) our identities, and (2) our ownership of anything in the house.
My wife then told the company that we had the address and telephone number of the person named on the letter, but still they insist his isn't enough.
We obviously have some serious problems with this, foremost:
- in the current GDPR climate, how can a company insist that we send them something as personal as our own mortgage agreement when WE don't owe them a thing?
- even if we did send them the agreement, surely all that proves is that we own the property and not the listed person. Are they still going to chase things at this address?
- my wife actually has an energy supply agreement with the same energy company, as well as a boiler and central heating maintenance plan. We are and have always been fully up to date with our bills ever since the first day of living here. A quick check by the company would surely highlight that the debt cannot be attributed to our property.
- given that we have now given the company accurate details of where the person lives, isn't it their job to chase this up?
I feel this is bordering on harassment, but does anyone know what our rights are?
Many thanks in advance.
Following on from another thread, and based on a letter we've had through the post, I just wanted some collective thoughts on an issue.
My wife and I received a letter through the post from a debt collection agency - Court Enforcement Services - addressed to my brother-in-laws girlfriend. Around three years ago, the pair of them lodged with us for several months whilst they sorted themselves out with their own property. We have now seen the letter and it refers to an energy company debt of £1,200, a 'High Court Writ of Control', and states that enforcement agents WILL be visiting out property over the coming days to seize goods.
We obviously don't want people calling round in this manner, so my wife called the debt collection company this morning and explained that we own the property, that the person named on the letter did not live here, and that we would appreciate not being bothered by debt collectors calling at our address.
The company replied that they could not take my wife's word for it, and that unless we sent a copy of our mortgage agreement to them, they would assume that it was the correct address and someone would be visiting us shortly. At that point we would have to prove (1) our identities, and (2) our ownership of anything in the house.
My wife then told the company that we had the address and telephone number of the person named on the letter, but still they insist his isn't enough.
We obviously have some serious problems with this, foremost:
- in the current GDPR climate, how can a company insist that we send them something as personal as our own mortgage agreement when WE don't owe them a thing?
- even if we did send them the agreement, surely all that proves is that we own the property and not the listed person. Are they still going to chase things at this address?
- my wife actually has an energy supply agreement with the same energy company, as well as a boiler and central heating maintenance plan. We are and have always been fully up to date with our bills ever since the first day of living here. A quick check by the company would surely highlight that the debt cannot be attributed to our property.
- given that we have now given the company accurate details of where the person lives, isn't it their job to chase this up?
I feel this is bordering on harassment, but does anyone know what our rights are?
Many thanks in advance.
Personally I see you have two routes.....
If you don't mind wasting your own time as well as theirs cease any communication with them and don't allow them (baliffs) access or any form of dialogue. Be prepared to be hassled.
If you want to be more pragmatic either send a redacted copy of what they have asked for or make an arrangement for them to visit at an agreed time to show the document if you don't want them to have a copy.
Generally harassment for a lawful purpose isn't harassment so i wouldn't start down that route at this time. Realistically if all it took was a phone call to stop any enforcement activity they wouldn't be in business long!
If you don't mind wasting your own time as well as theirs cease any communication with them and don't allow them (baliffs) access or any form of dialogue. Be prepared to be hassled.
If you want to be more pragmatic either send a redacted copy of what they have asked for or make an arrangement for them to visit at an agreed time to show the document if you don't want them to have a copy.
Generally harassment for a lawful purpose isn't harassment so i wouldn't start down that route at this time. Realistically if all it took was a phone call to stop any enforcement activity they wouldn't be in business long!
I received debt collectors letters on behalf of British gas for the previous owner of the house. Instead of giving all my information to dubious looking collection agents I called British gas and they cancelled it. It was a bit under £100 so far less than your situation but I if you have an account with them already they should be willing to help.
Had similar with our house.
Have been in 18 months now. After about living there for six months kept getting the same letter every couple of weeks from N Power.
I'd put back in post box as not at this address. This didn't matter.
After a couple of months got a couple that where clearly from debt collectors, so when the next left from N Powered turned up I rang them to say please stop send this here as its now my house etc etc.
They sorted it out and no longer get any hassle.
Have been in 18 months now. After about living there for six months kept getting the same letter every couple of weeks from N Power.
I'd put back in post box as not at this address. This didn't matter.
After a couple of months got a couple that where clearly from debt collectors, so when the next left from N Powered turned up I rang them to say please stop send this here as its now my house etc etc.
They sorted it out and no longer get any hassle.
Personally, I really don't see what the issue is - they just want proof that what you are really saying is true. If debt collectors just accepted everything told to them at face value I doubt they'd be in business very long.
I'm not really sure what you think they're going to do with your mortgage agreement, but if it worries you that much, why not send them a copy of the Land Registry Title document which will state your names. It'll cost you money to get the document (£3 last time I looked) so I suspect they were trying to keep your costs down.
I'm not really sure what you think they're going to do with your mortgage agreement, but if it worries you that much, why not send them a copy of the Land Registry Title document which will state your names. It'll cost you money to get the document (£3 last time I looked) so I suspect they were trying to keep your costs down.
Interesting that they want proof. Although I can see why. To add my experience, I had a handwritten note from a debt collector posted through the letter box, looking to collect approx £150 electricity bill debt. I phoned the number on the note and told them that I was the new flat owner. They then happily made a note on their system and I was never bothered again. Was very easy! I do wonder what they do next in that situation with regards to chasing the money.
It's more a matter of principle; that we're having to prove we live at our own address, when public records state that anyway, by giving out personal information.
The biggest concern is that a mortgage agreement, or indeed a council tax bill, will only show who owns the property or is registered with the council as living there. The two individuals in question did live here for several months and would still not have shown up via either of those methods. In which case, how do we know that giving out this information will stop us being harrassed this time around?
Furthermore, why can't the collection agency just do their job and find the people who do owe the debt and bother them? It's not hard...we've given them all the detail.
No doubt we will end up sending through the document they require. I do have a good mind to call the collection agency, and inform whomever I speak to that I intend to find out where they live, and then visit them one evening at their home to discuss...I suspect if I did, that would be seen as harassment.
The biggest concern is that a mortgage agreement, or indeed a council tax bill, will only show who owns the property or is registered with the council as living there. The two individuals in question did live here for several months and would still not have shown up via either of those methods. In which case, how do we know that giving out this information will stop us being harrassed this time around?
Furthermore, why can't the collection agency just do their job and find the people who do owe the debt and bother them? It's not hard...we've given them all the detail.
No doubt we will end up sending through the document they require. I do have a good mind to call the collection agency, and inform whomever I speak to that I intend to find out where they live, and then visit them one evening at their home to discuss...I suspect if I did, that would be seen as harassment.
As has been said, how do they know you're not trying to pull the wool over their eyes? Think of the type of people they deal with day in and day out, I'm sure they have heard your story many many times. They have said they will accept the documents as proof that you aren't who they're looking for, whether you think it's enough or not is largely irrelevant.
We used to get regular threatening letters when our neighbours used our address (we are $$, they are $$a) rather than their own. Posting the letters through their letterbox didn't help, neither did returning the letters as not at this address. In the end I would just open the letters (they were easy to spot) and call the company to explain the situation. Not had any letters since.
frodo23 said:
It's more a matter of principle; that we're having to prove we live at our own address, when public records state that anyway, by giving out personal information.
The biggest concern is that a mortgage agreement, or indeed a council tax bill, will only show who owns the property or is registered with the council as living there. The two individuals in question did live here for several months and would still not have shown up via either of those methods. In which case, how do we know that giving out this information will stop us being harrassed this time around?
Furthermore, why can't the collection agency just do their job and find the people who do owe the debt and bother them? It's not hard...we've given them all the detail.
No doubt we will end up sending through the document they require. I do have a good mind to call the collection agency, and inform whomever I speak to that I intend to find out where they live, and then visit them one evening at their home to discuss...I suspect if I did, that would be seen as harassment.
Jesus - just send them the documents and move on.The biggest concern is that a mortgage agreement, or indeed a council tax bill, will only show who owns the property or is registered with the council as living there. The two individuals in question did live here for several months and would still not have shown up via either of those methods. In which case, how do we know that giving out this information will stop us being harrassed this time around?
Furthermore, why can't the collection agency just do their job and find the people who do owe the debt and bother them? It's not hard...we've given them all the detail.
No doubt we will end up sending through the document they require. I do have a good mind to call the collection agency, and inform whomever I speak to that I intend to find out where they live, and then visit them one evening at their home to discuss...I suspect if I did, that would be seen as harassment.
If you were a debt collector and someone said "nah mate, doesn't live here anymore" you wouldn't believe them....
xjay1337 said:
Jesus - just send them the documents and move on.
If you were a debt collector and someone said "nah mate, doesn't live here anymore" you wouldn't believe them....
The documents don't prove they don't live here anymore though, do they?! Whereas we've proved where they do live by giving them the correct address... it's just a case of them actually doing their jobs, going to the address we've given, and bingo!If you were a debt collector and someone said "nah mate, doesn't live here anymore" you wouldn't believe them....
I'd personally tell them to FRO.
But then I quite enjoy wasting these scrotes' time if I ever get the opportunity.
As for sending your mortgage agreement , WTF ! No chance in hell. Amazed at the debt collector friendly advice given on this thread. Maybe we should go out and give them a hug as they mistakenly try to steal our TVs. Madness.
But then I quite enjoy wasting these scrotes' time if I ever get the opportunity.
As for sending your mortgage agreement , WTF ! No chance in hell. Amazed at the debt collector friendly advice given on this thread. Maybe we should go out and give them a hug as they mistakenly try to steal our TVs. Madness.
It just sounds like the OP is a bit of an awkward so & so.
If they're court ordered bailiffs i'm pretty sure they can do whatever they like (within the realms of the law).
Get a copy of the mortgage agreement, redact the financial parts of it & email it to them, they'll then remove you off their system.
No doubt they've heard all sorts of s
t excuses & the age old 'doesn't live here anymore type rubbish'.
For the sake of 5 minutes with a photocopier & a black pen to send an email you won't do it?
Surely that's easier than them showing up and causing the stress & scene in the street that will inevitably happen?!
If they're court ordered bailiffs i'm pretty sure they can do whatever they like (within the realms of the law).
Get a copy of the mortgage agreement, redact the financial parts of it & email it to them, they'll then remove you off their system.
No doubt they've heard all sorts of s
t excuses & the age old 'doesn't live here anymore type rubbish'.For the sake of 5 minutes with a photocopier & a black pen to send an email you won't do it?
Surely that's easier than them showing up and causing the stress & scene in the street that will inevitably happen?!
First the usual IANAL.
As i understand it they must have got a CCJ (county court judgement) against the girl friend in the county court (usually served by the Northampton bulk office) first before they can get a high court writ of control. This should all be check-able on line if you know her name. So there should be a paper trail to show this? The paperwork should have come to your address for all of this, do you have any of it?
If not the debt collectors are just fishing. Ask them to prove the debt and show you the judgement. The ball is very definitely in their court to prove they have followed the procedure, not up to you to prove who you are.
Finally if a bailiff does show up on your door step and he claims to have a high court writ ask to see his badge. All high court bailiffs are officers of the court, they will have a badge with the UK coat of arms on it, similar to a police warrant card and they will be very pleased to show it to you.
As i understand it they must have got a CCJ (county court judgement) against the girl friend in the county court (usually served by the Northampton bulk office) first before they can get a high court writ of control. This should all be check-able on line if you know her name. So there should be a paper trail to show this? The paperwork should have come to your address for all of this, do you have any of it?
If not the debt collectors are just fishing. Ask them to prove the debt and show you the judgement. The ball is very definitely in their court to prove they have followed the procedure, not up to you to prove who you are.
Finally if a bailiff does show up on your door step and he claims to have a high court writ ask to see his badge. All high court bailiffs are officers of the court, they will have a badge with the UK coat of arms on it, similar to a police warrant card and they will be very pleased to show it to you.
Schmed said:
I'd personally tell them to FRO.
But then I quite enjoy wasting these scrotes' time if I ever get the opportunity.
As for sending your mortgage agreement , WTF ! No chance in hell. Amazed at the debt collector friendly advice given on this thread. Maybe we should go out and give them a hug as they mistakenly try to steal our TVs. Madness.
Seconded. But then I quite enjoy wasting these scrotes' time if I ever get the opportunity.
As for sending your mortgage agreement , WTF ! No chance in hell. Amazed at the debt collector friendly advice given on this thread. Maybe we should go out and give them a hug as they mistakenly try to steal our TVs. Madness.
These people are bottom feeding vermin - tell them that if anyone sets foot on YOUR property they will be trespassing - and call the police.
Record it all if they should call round - above all be extremely rude to them.
OP has no idea if the debt is real or not, and no obligation to co-operate in any way.
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