Loose diamonds.
Discussion
An acquaintance has been bequeathed a loose diamond . It is approx 1.57 carats and of the highest quality, as outlined by the GIA certiifcation with the stone , which from my basic research, puts it (apparently) into the 20k region, regarding value.
He wishes to sell the stone, the fact is though, how? Which is his best course of action, are there traders who buy as well as sell? Can it be sold on a commision basis , or indeed, is auction a wise option? Any advice, (and links) woud be most welcome.
He wishes to sell the stone, the fact is though, how? Which is his best course of action, are there traders who buy as well as sell? Can it be sold on a commision basis , or indeed, is auction a wise option? Any advice, (and links) woud be most welcome.
The best bet would be to sell to a diamond trader in Hatton garden. I have a family member who is a stone polisher there so could get you a contact if you wish.
Other than that you could speak to various shops up there and see who is interested. Remember though all that glitters is not gold...some of the places up there are shady to say the least. Just make sure you are getting a price you’re happy with.
Other than that you could speak to various shops up there and see who is interested. Remember though all that glitters is not gold...some of the places up there are shady to say the least. Just make sure you are getting a price you’re happy with.
Stuart70 said:
A trip to Hatton Garden in London?
Yes, you can wander up the road popping into the various "shops" and asking whether they are interested/how much they will offer. I say "shops" but many of the places are more like "premises" so you won't necessarily see a big window display of shiny stuff. And if you want to get in it's likely you'll need to ring an outside bell and wait for the door to be opened. Some places will be Trade Only. You'll probably need proper photo ID with you.If you're going to walk about with a £20k diamond it would be a good idea to have "all risks" insurance.
A good starting point would be to look at Google Maps and do a virtual "walk" of Hatton Garden to get a feel for things. You could even follow up with some phone calls.
By the way, how good are you at telling one diamond from another? Watch out for the "old switcheroo" where a staff member takes your diamond round the back for the boss to look at and then returns. You want to be sure you're getting the same diamond back. Simplest course of action is never to let it out of your sight. There's also the question of how/when you're going to get paid.
Hosenbugler said:
An acquaintance has been bequeathed a loose diamond . It is approx 1.57 carats and of the highest quality, as outlined by the GIA certiifcation with the stone , which from my basic research, puts it (apparently) into the 20k region, regarding value.
He wishes to sell the stone, the fact is though, how? Which is his best course of action, are there traders who buy as well as sell? Can it be sold on a commision basis , or indeed, is auction a wise option? Any advice, (and links) woud be most welcome.
I think DominicH can probably help - he's very well regarded on the watch forum on here (https://hackettwatches.com). If he can't help directly, he'll know someone who can!He wishes to sell the stone, the fact is though, how? Which is his best course of action, are there traders who buy as well as sell? Can it be sold on a commision basis , or indeed, is auction a wise option? Any advice, (and links) woud be most welcome.
This is my field, although I don't buy diamonds from private individuals (due to the issues about attesting to the source etc).
However, I'll happily give you an estimate for free as to the trade value of the stone. This will help you know what is a fair price, and what is a low ball offer. Just PM me the details of the stone.
However, I'll happily give you an estimate for free as to the trade value of the stone. This will help you know what is a fair price, and what is a low ball offer. Just PM me the details of the stone.
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is my field, although I don't buy diamonds from private individuals (due to the issues about attesting to the source etc).
However, I'll happily give you an estimate for free as to the trade value of the stone. This will help you know what is a fair price, and what is a low ball offer. Just PM me the details of the stone.
Firstly , thanks to all who have contributed. Yes, Eddie, I will take you up on your kind offer and email you in the next day or so, I shall put my username in the header so you know who I am. However, I'll happily give you an estimate for free as to the trade value of the stone. This will help you know what is a fair price, and what is a low ball offer. Just PM me the details of the stone.
Oh yeah, the diamond is 1.50 carat, not 1.57 as I earlier stated, I have the grades written down from the GIA report so will pass those on to you.
many thanks
I was under the impression that there are actually skip loads of diamonds lying around and that they are not rare and the whole thing is a bit of a scam?
I thought de beers controlled most of the mines and hence the diamonds and only sold them a few times a year, creating a cartel and artificially pushing up the price.
Because of this the second hand value of most diamonds is pretty much zero.
How far from the truth is this?
I thought de beers controlled most of the mines and hence the diamonds and only sold them a few times a year, creating a cartel and artificially pushing up the price.
Because of this the second hand value of most diamonds is pretty much zero.
How far from the truth is this?
Joey Deacon said:
I was under the impression that there are actually skip loads of diamonds lying around and that they are not rare and the whole thing is a bit of a scam?
I thought de beers controlled most of the mines and hence the diamonds and only sold them a few times a year, creating a cartel and artificially pushing up the price.
Because of this the second hand value of most diamonds is pretty much zero.
How far from the truth is this?
That isn't really an accurate summary.I thought de beers controlled most of the mines and hence the diamonds and only sold them a few times a year, creating a cartel and artificially pushing up the price.
Because of this the second hand value of most diamonds is pretty much zero.
How far from the truth is this?
De Beers no longer have a dominant position they once had in terms of controlling the production of rough stones.
However, they (together with the other main mining companies like BHP Billiton etc) do use a variety of techniques to ensure they squeeze as much as they can in terms of pricing.
The mining companies generally sell their production to polishing companies. And a typical large polishing company is employing thousands of people and so they need a constant supply of rough stones.
And to get that guarantee of supply they need to agree to become a 'sightholder', which in simple terms means they guarantee to buy a certain amount of production at the prevailing price set by the mine.
So you can view this practise like signing up lots of long term supply contracts. It helps to remove some of the short term volatility from the price in return for providing regular supply.
And in general terms, the difficulty is always getting sufficient quantity of saleable 'commercial quality' stones. To use a comparison, it's a bit like a Rolex dealer, who will always have a shortage of steel sports Rolex.
And the second hand value of diamonds is far from zero. We have diamonds we sold to customers 10 years ago that we have bought back from them at a higher price than they paid. And that is without taking into account a portion of the price will have included VAT and the setting (which once used isn't worth a great deal other than the price per gram of the precious metal).
I'm not saying that happens every time, but if you buy a nice quality item at the right price, you are going to retain a far higher portion of your money than if you buy a new BMW or Audi.
Plus they looks pretty and make people happy
selmahoose said:
Do you deal with opals as well Eddie?
We do. I'd say 85% of our revenue is diamonds, with the balance split between other precious stones like emeralds, rubies, sapphires, but also opals. I employ a small team of expert GIA graduate gemologists who love pretty much every type of gemstone
I'm conscious I don't want to turn this into an advert, but I'm happy if you would like any information or advice, just send me a PM.
Hosenbugler said:
An acquaintance has been bequeathed a loose diamond . It is approx 1.57 carats and of the highest quality, as outlined by the GIA certiifcation with the stone , which from my basic research, puts it (apparently) into the 20k region, regarding value.
He wishes to sell the stone, the fact is though, how? Which is his best course of action, are there traders who buy as well as sell? Can it be sold on a commision basis , or indeed, is auction a wise option? Any advice, (and links) woud be most welcome.
Dom Hackett of Hackett Watches buys diamonds and is a PHer. I’ve done previous business with him, buying and selling, and he is in my experience an honest chap who doesn’t take the rip with pricing.He wishes to sell the stone, the fact is though, how? Which is his best course of action, are there traders who buy as well as sell? Can it be sold on a commision basis , or indeed, is auction a wise option? Any advice, (and links) woud be most welcome.
Tallow said:
Here's a diamond question I've been wondering about recently: I've been looking at diamonds here in the US. They seem to be significantly cheaper than purchasing in the UK. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so, what's the reason?
Diamonds are traded globally in USD. There is no difference in the actual price for the particular diamond whether you are in Antwerp, Hong Kong, Shanghai or London. And in fact for larger diamonds, they regularly move around the world.However, when buying a diamond as a consumer, a key difference is VAT. Generally US companies list their prices excluding what they call "use tax", as that varies between states, and is often not paid.
US companies also tend to separate out the price of the diamond from the cost of the setting, so it is best to add these back together.
Then you get into the "like for like" comparison issues. Many US companies (and indeed many UK companies now too) show diamonds in a list where you can choose the exact diamond.
If you narrow down the spec to be a tight as possible, you are presented with a list of diamonds which, according to the GIA lab report, are the same. Except, even when buying from the same company you will typically see a difference of 50% to 100% between the cheapest and the most expensive diamonds in the list.
There are a number of reasons, but the largest is what is called 'off certificate' factors. These are factors which affect the appearance and price of a diamond but which are not currently shown on the GIA report.
I've had examples for my company, where a customer has asked us to source a diamond they have seen on a US list. Because the US companies don't usually own the stones (think booking.com vis-a-vis hotel rooms) we have been able to supply the same diamond at the same price (equivalent dollar value) here in the UK, when excluding VAT.
In fact the most recent example, we had a US based customer who wanted to buy a diamond from a US company (the diamond price was circa $40,000). But they purchased the diamond from us, and we shipped it to California at the same $ price. The reason they picked a UK company was because we were able to offer some additional warranties which tipped the balance in our favour.
So, that's a long winded way of saying, if you shop around, diamonds are no cheaper where ever you are, once you exclude sales taxes.
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