Discussion
I have no factual knowledge, but suspect when designing the engines, there were targets of >100hp/litre, in the same way that traditionally BMW always tried to have a 500cc/cylinder size.
As soon as the desired output was reached with sufficent longevity criteria met (somewhat tongue in cheek as you know
), then that was the brief met.
The fact that they both exceed the margin by a little bit - but not to the same extent is possibly down to pumpling losses - i.e. there’s more inherent pumping losses on the v10 vs. the v8. That makes sense to me - but I’m a long way removed from my engineering classes.
As soon as the desired output was reached with sufficent longevity criteria met (somewhat tongue in cheek as you know
), then that was the brief met.The fact that they both exceed the margin by a little bit - but not to the same extent is possibly down to pumpling losses - i.e. there’s more inherent pumping losses on the v10 vs. the v8. That makes sense to me - but I’m a long way removed from my engineering classes.
KPB1973 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
....you have a window of 6000rpm to 8400rpm when the engine is absolutely brilliant...but for the rest of the time not a lot really happens.
Apart from peak torque being generated over 2k rpm lower down the rev band.Wills2 said:
KPB1973 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
....you have a window of 6000rpm to 8400rpm when the engine is absolutely brilliant...but for the rest of the time not a lot really happens.
Apart from peak torque being generated over 2k rpm lower down the rev band.
All joking aside I think that the kerbweight plays a really big part of it not feeling very torquey to me personally(My 330d had more and I was used to that for 6 years). The M3 was epic very high up the revs though and I've never disputed that.
cerb4.5lee said:
Be thankful for the lower rpm and the extra torque in the M5! 
8300rpm is miles too high in the M3 for me(on the road at least), and you have a window of 6000rpm to 8400rpm when the engine is absolutely brilliant...but for the rest of the time not a lot really happens.
I've found that too in the m3. Seems to take ages before there's any power (I was spoiled with a turbo car asy last car). 8300rpm is miles too high in the M3 for me(on the road at least), and you have a window of 6000rpm to 8400rpm when the engine is absolutely brilliant...but for the rest of the time not a lot really happens. Theone8181 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Be thankful for the lower rpm and the extra torque in the M5! 8300rpm is miles too high in the M3 for me(on the road at least), and you have a window of 6000rpm to 8400rpm when the engine is absolutely brilliant...but for the rest of the time not a lot really happens.
I've found that too in the m3. Seems to take ages before there's any power (I was spoiled with a turbo car asy last car). 8300rpm is miles too high in the M3 for me(on the road at least), and you have a window of 6000rpm to 8400rpm when the engine is absolutely brilliant...but for the rest of the time not a lot really happens. Turbo engines do really spoil you for sure with their on tap performance. N/A engines need a much different approach...you have to thrash them to death and you'll be motoring then!
True, but... 5th gear from 30mph going all the way to the limiter in the M6 doesn’t get old, and the changes in tone, as the cams come in, the heady rush to the red line, it’s intoxicating - though admittedly it’s not something you can do in the UK (legally).
It’s actually more ‘fun’ than 2nd/3rd, etc - you get to experience something special. The only thing I’ve driven that did similar was the DB7 vantage. The car’s likely coming over to NL with me soon, so when I do, I’ll have to take a side trip to DE and get a dashcam video of it.
It’s actually more ‘fun’ than 2nd/3rd, etc - you get to experience something special. The only thing I’ve driven that did similar was the DB7 vantage. The car’s likely coming over to NL with me soon, so when I do, I’ll have to take a side trip to DE and get a dashcam video of it.
Going from 2500rpm to 8400rpm in a single gear is one of the joys of the S65 engine. Likewise the S85
The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
Tony B2 said:
Going from 2500rpm to 8400rpm in a single gear is one of the joys of the S65 engine. Likewise the S85
The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
That surprises me as I feel it's much slower than my old 996 turbo (which I thought an m4 would be similar in speed to).The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
After a impromptu trackday at brands hatch last year in my M6 (E65 S65) I was greeted by a 991 Turbo S on a derestricted dual carriageway.... It was behind me likely in the wrong gear, and I was eviscerated before the end of the straight. At least 5 car lengths behind before I backed off at crazy leptons.
Things have moved on somewhat in terms of performance!
Things have moved on somewhat in terms of performance!
Theone8181 said:
Tony B2 said:
Going from 2500rpm to 8400rpm in a single gear is one of the joys of the S65 engine. Likewise the S85
The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
That surprises me as I feel it's much slower than my old 996 turbo (which I thought an m4 would be similar in speed to).The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
The almost instant wallop and surge of torque does make the M4 (standard or tuned) feel mighty quick, and the same is true of almost any turbo engined car these days.
Subjective feel is a strange thing.
I must stick the performance box on each car and see what the real measurable gap is, over a speed increment - 30 to 70 is legal, so that might have to be the benchmark.
Prinny said:
True, but... 5th gear from 30mph going all the way to the limiter in the M6 doesn’t get old, and the changes in tone, as the cams come in, the heady rush to the red line, it’s intoxicating - though admittedly it’s not something you can do in the UK (legally).
It’s actually more ‘fun’ than 2nd/3rd, etc - you get to experience something special. The only thing I’ve driven that did similar was the DB7 vantage. The car’s likely coming over to NL with me soon, so when I do, I’ll have to take a side trip to DE and get a dashcam video of it.
Thank you for posting this. It inspired me to try the same in 3rd in my S54 tonight. Great fun! A prolonged surge that gets more intense the closer you get to the red-line.It’s actually more ‘fun’ than 2nd/3rd, etc - you get to experience something special. The only thing I’ve driven that did similar was the DB7 vantage. The car’s likely coming over to NL with me soon, so when I do, I’ll have to take a side trip to DE and get a dashcam video of it.
ocrx8 said:
Thank you for posting this. It inspired me to try the same in 3rd in my S54 tonight. Great fun! A prolonged surge that gets more intense the closer you get to the red-line.
There's no doubt that the M2 is the quicker car but I do miss the more characterful sound of the S54 in my old Z4M. That engine had a lovely blend of induction, exhaust and mechanical noises that got a nice hard edge as the revs climbed. The M2 sounds OK but a distant second.Tony B2 said:
Going from 2500rpm to 8400rpm in a single gear is one of the joys of the S65 engine. Likewise the S85
The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
Agreed Tony, the long legs of the S65 are fantastic to experience it's what it's all about to me anyway. The ever changing intake and exhaust music and the ever increasing thrust is still a thrill after more than 10 years (jeez....) of ownership.
I think the S85 actually sounds nicer than the Audi R8's V10, too.
OK, so if you want to make an impression on (erm....or vaguely keep up with) a similarly powerful turbo equipped car you do have to keep the revs high.
I was quite surprised at how close it was to a friend's 500+hp M4, through a full rev 2nd gear comparison!
Sounded better, too....
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