600 Sports bikes getting slower ?

[Slipperywang]

Getting into track days this year and hopefully the back end of next year I will be buying my first home that must have a garage, this means new bike! Have been looking at the R6 and according to wikipedia its getting little heavier and little less power each iteration.

03-04 115bhp 193kg
06-07 125bhp 190kg
08-09 127bhp 189kg
10-16 122bhp 189kg
present 116bhp 190kg

Thought this was odd. I imagine that each generation is faster than the last due to technological advances but is this trend something we will continue to see. I guess the EU has something to do with it and eventually very small turbo charged engines or electric bikes will become a thing?

[TurbosSuck]

There isn't all that much development in 600cc sports bikes anymore as they are a bit of a dying category. I guess the newest emission regs and the addition of ABS and electronics are adding weight and restricting power somewhat.

I am shocked by how heavy some of the newer bikes are, 192kg for a CBR500r..... A K1 GSXR 750 was about 166kg!

[Biker's Nemesis]

Take the cat off and get a re map then it will be a whole different ball game

[Deranged Granny]

Emissions and lack of demand = little progress.

Compare the performance of an R1 over the same period.

TurbosSuck said:

There isn't all that much development in 600cc sports bikes anymore as they are a bit of a dying category. I guess the newest emission regs and the addition of ABS and electronics are adding weight and restricting power somewhat.

I am shocked by how heavy some of the newer bikes are, 192kg for a CBR500r..... A K1 GSXR 750 was about 166kg!

CBR500 is hardly a sportsbike is it

[Prof Prolapse]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Take the cat off and get a re map then it will be a whole different ball game

Exactly this.

With no real investment the current R6 was clearly intentionally hobbled to get it through emissions and into sale.

Yamaha, I believe, were consciously aiming the bike at the track segment, who will just set it up as they want anyway.

I'm curious how many the sold and how quick it is with it's ball back on however...

[CousinDupree]

The Blender class has had it's day.

[TurbosSuck]

Deranged Granny said:

CBR500 is hardly a sportsbike is it

I never said it was, but Honda are certainly presenting it that way.

My point was more that a 17 year old bike with 50% more capacity and three times the power is nearly thirty kilos lighter.

[NAS]

It isn't.

It doesn't mention it specifically here:
https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/super-sp...

But on the German site it clearly states "fully fuelled".
https://www.honda.de/motorcycles/range/super-sport...

You are comparing dry with wet figures.

[CousinDupree]

It's a cheapo Asian made, budget bike with a steel frame.

[robinh73]

As has been said, emissions are the main killer of power and gainer of weight. I managed to lose some serious weight on my race bikes and also gain some decent power. The best was my last GSXR600 which was a 2012 model, where I shaved off 12kgs and added 22hp. It did cost a fair fortune to get the power, but it was worth it. Managed to clock 168.8 at the Ulster GP in 2016, making it one of the faster 600s out there. Having said that, William Dunlop in the same race managed to clock 176. Bit of a difference.

[Slipperywang]

CousinDupree said:

It's a cheapo Asian made, budget bike with a steel frame.

£11,750 is not a budget 600cc bike. And its an ally frame!

[Deranged Granny]

Oh dear. I think this thread needs to be binned so we can start again.

[HughiusMaximus]

robinh73 said:

The best was my last GSXR600 which was a 2012 model, where I shaved off 12kgs and added 22hp.

Out of curiosity what did you do to get the weight save / power?

I picked up a second hand 2011 GSXR600 last October that has had some work done to it.
It has a full M4 exhaust system and a power commander and was dynoed at 117 hp at the rear wheel.

Cant see me doing any more to it as I guess I'd be getting in to changing engine internals which is a step too far for me but I'd be curious to see what an be done.

I really need to change the gearing, it was a racers rain bike so it was set up with a less aggressive 42 rear sprocket (not sure what the front is).

I know gearing can be track specific but would you jump to a 45 or 47 rear sprocket as an average UK track setup?

[NS400R]

Slipperywang said:

£11,750 is not a budget 600cc bike. And its an ally frame!

He was referring to the CBR500

[robinh73]

HughiusMaximus said:

Out of curiosity what did you do to get the weight save / power?

I picked up a second hand 2011 GSXR600 last October that has had some work done to it.
It has a full M4 exhaust system and a power commander and was dynoed at 117 hp at the rear wheel.

Cant see me doing any more to it as I guess I'd be getting in to changing engine internals which is a step too far for me but I'd be curious to see what an be done.

I really need to change the gearing, it was a racers rain bike so it was set up with a less aggressive 42 rear sprocket (not sure what the front is).

I know gearing can be track specific but would you jump to a 45 or 47 rear sprocket as an average UK track setup?

The main weight saving was ditching the road bodywork, changing the battery for a lithium ion one and basically getting it to full race trim. The exhaust had to be the biggest saving as I went for a full Yoshimura titanium race system. As for power, it had Woolwich ECU with launch control and put lane limiter, Yoshimura cams, a few other Yoshi engine internals too. It really was superb and handled well too. Loved that bike big time.

[CousinDupree]

NS400R said:

He was referring to the CBR500

[TurbosSuck]

NAS said:

It isn't.

It doesn't mention it specifically here:
https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/super-sp...

But on the German site it clearly states "fully fuelled".
https://www.honda.de/motorcycles/range/super-sport...

You are comparing dry with wet figures.

Sorry, my mistake. I thought they were both dry weights.

[black-k1]

So, in summary, power gains are keeping up with restrictions imposed by emissions legislation and weight reduction continues even though this is a class deemed to have little market attraction.

Business as usual!

Excellent!

[Ho Lee Kau]

TurbosSuck said:

Deranged Granny said:

CBR500 is hardly a sportsbike is it

I never said it was, but Honda are certainly presenting it that way.

My point was more that a 17 year old bike with 50% more capacity and three times the power is nearly thirty kilos lighter.

less EURO 1-2-3-4-... gear on those bikes

As far as CBR500 is concerned, pushed one of those around a few years back. It is way too heavy and has very soft suspension, I was comparing to CBR600RR.

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Thursday 14th February 08:59

[Slipperywang]

CousinDupree said:

NS400R said:

He was referring to the CBR500

Ahhhh yeah makes sense!