Applying to university?
Discussion
Its been 30+ years since I applied and I didn't need to worry about fees then ...
My daughter wants to do photography and English lit - but I can't see if any university offers these 2 as a degree. We've looked at other courses, things like photojournalism or journalism in general, but I think the literature but would be out the window.
Can she apply to a university to do two courses? If she does, would she have to pay twice?
My daughter wants to do photography and English lit - but I can't see if any university offers these 2 as a degree. We've looked at other courses, things like photojournalism or journalism in general, but I think the literature but would be out the window.
Can she apply to a university to do two courses? If she does, would she have to pay twice?
Why English lit and not just photography? Speaking as an English lit dropout who later graduated as an audio engineer...
I don't believe she can simultaneously run two degree programs, nor would she want to. She can do them consecutively if she wants, but wouldn't be able to take any student loans for the second degree. It's always worth talking to her prospective universities, sometimes they will allow her to make up her credits by taking modules from other schools, the degree classification for photography and English is usually BA even if one is Arts and the other Humanities.
I don't believe she can simultaneously run two degree programs, nor would she want to. She can do them consecutively if she wants, but wouldn't be able to take any student loans for the second degree. It's always worth talking to her prospective universities, sometimes they will allow her to make up her credits by taking modules from other schools, the degree classification for photography and English is usually BA even if one is Arts and the other Humanities.
What does she hope to achieve out of a photography degree? A friend of mine's son did photography, he's now got a degree in it. Works in Costco or somewhere - I guess at least he'll never earn enough to have to pay back his massive loan.
From a career point of view, if she wants to be a photographer I'm not convinced a degree in it will help her take better photos, my friend's son was amazed how little of the course actually involved taking photos (you'd think h'd have checked what the course was about before signing up for 3 years, but hey ho).
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images. Certainly it hasn't helped my friend's son one jot.
There's the argument that simply having a degree, being a 'graduate' impresses an employer, but now everyone under 30 is waving their media studies degree over their heads, does anyone really care anymore?
I think theres a place for university. If you want to be a lawyer then a law degree is no doubt helpful. But these nebulous basket weaving degrees are just proof that universities are little more than businesses these days.
From a career point of view, if she wants to be a photographer I'm not convinced a degree in it will help her take better photos, my friend's son was amazed how little of the course actually involved taking photos (you'd think h'd have checked what the course was about before signing up for 3 years, but hey ho).
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images. Certainly it hasn't helped my friend's son one jot.
There's the argument that simply having a degree, being a 'graduate' impresses an employer, but now everyone under 30 is waving their media studies degree over their heads, does anyone really care anymore?
I think theres a place for university. If you want to be a lawyer then a law degree is no doubt helpful. But these nebulous basket weaving degrees are just proof that universities are little more than businesses these days.
Ari said:
What does she hope to achieve out of a photography degree? A friend of mine's son did photography, he's now got a degree in it. Works in Costco or somewhere - I guess at least he'll never earn enough to have to pay back his massive loan.
From a career point of view, if she wants to be a photographer I'm not convinced a degree in it will help her take better photos, my friend's son was amazed how little of the course actually involved taking photos (you'd think h'd have checked what the course was about before signing up for 3 years, but hey ho).
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images. Certainly it hasn't helped my friend's son one jot.
There's the argument that simply having a degree, being a 'graduate' impresses an employer, but now everyone under 30 is waving their media studies degree over their heads, does anyone really care anymore?
I think theres a place for university. If you want to be a lawyer then a law degree is no doubt helpful. But these nebulous basket weaving degrees are just proof that universities are little more than businesses these days.
This. I'm not sure that it wouldn't be better value to get a private course if required. Then maybe go to art school if necessary...From a career point of view, if she wants to be a photographer I'm not convinced a degree in it will help her take better photos, my friend's son was amazed how little of the course actually involved taking photos (you'd think h'd have checked what the course was about before signing up for 3 years, but hey ho).
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images. Certainly it hasn't helped my friend's son one jot.
There's the argument that simply having a degree, being a 'graduate' impresses an employer, but now everyone under 30 is waving their media studies degree over their heads, does anyone really care anymore?
I think theres a place for university. If you want to be a lawyer then a law degree is no doubt helpful. But these nebulous basket weaving degrees are just proof that universities are little more than businesses these days.
I would do English Lit (which will be part time in real terms) and do some hands on college courses part time, as well as joining some local groups to get hands on tips and pointers from people who do it as a serious hobby.
I also wouldn't do English Lit at a non-red brick these days, given the cost of it.
I also wouldn't do English Lit at a non-red brick these days, given the cost of it.
Ari said:
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images.
OP - I realise that this isn't really what you asked but as it's been mentioned, and as I have some modicum of insight on the subject, I have to agree with Ari. Photojournalism is a very competitive sector and the ability to make a living out of it is very limited. Most will be doing weddings at the weekend and the odd head and shoulder type stuff for corporate websites to top up the earnings. It is possible but takes time, contacts, luck and superior skills and creativity.
I do understand why she is interested in the English side of things as a photographer that can also write about the pictures taken is more sought after.
Most of the journo's I know came up through regional colleges rather than Uni.
Obviously you miss out on the Uni-scene and all that but it's a route that may not be needed.
Perhaps I am being stupid, BUT why do English Lit as the degree then undertake photography in her spare time to build up a portfolio and learn etc. Plenty of studios will help and at Uni am sure there would be enough students willing to model let alone her having the time to go around the grounds taking artistic pics etc.
OP - short answer is she can’t apply to study 2 courses at the same time, and if she studied them one after another then she would have to pay cash for the second course. It would take at least 6 years too.
Is she’s unsure what she wants to study then she should take some time out to explore her interests before deciding what to study.
Who says you have to have a degree by 21? It’s a very expensive and long term mistake to make if the wrong degree choice is made at 18.
Is she’s unsure what she wants to study then she should take some time out to explore her interests before deciding what to study.
Who says you have to have a degree by 21? It’s a very expensive and long term mistake to make if the wrong degree choice is made at 18.
I won't jump on the "STEM" band wagon, but I would really look into the value for money/employability of some degrees over others before encouraging her one way or another. A degree in photography will not help with employability.
I have a daughter im considering in a similar vein, albeit a few years off. Her hobbies & loves vs £30k debt & 3 years for what gain. Gently considering it atm.
I have a daughter im considering in a similar vein, albeit a few years off. Her hobbies & loves vs £30k debt & 3 years for what gain. Gently considering it atm.
Ari said:
What does she hope to achieve out of a photography degree? A friend of mine's son did photography, he's now got a degree in it. Works in Costco or somewhere - I guess at least he'll never earn enough to have to pay back his massive loan.
From a career point of view, if she wants to be a photographer I'm not convinced a degree in it will help her take better photos, my friend's son was amazed how little of the course actually involved taking photos (you'd think h'd have checked what the course was about before signing up for 3 years, but hey ho).
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images. Certainly it hasn't helped my friend's son one jot.
There's the argument that simply having a degree, being a 'graduate' impresses an employer, but now everyone under 30 is waving their media studies degree over their heads, does anyone really care anymore?
I think theres a place for university. If you want to be a lawyer then a law degree is no doubt helpful. But these nebulous basket weaving degrees are just proof that universities are little more than businesses these days.
From a career point of view, if she wants to be a photographer I'm not convinced a degree in it will help her take better photos, my friend's son was amazed how little of the course actually involved taking photos (you'd think h'd have checked what the course was about before signing up for 3 years, but hey ho).
I seriously doubt a photography employer is going to be more impressed by a photography degree than a really good portfolio of images. Certainly it hasn't helped my friend's son one jot.
There's the argument that simply having a degree, being a 'graduate' impresses an employer, but now everyone under 30 is waving their media studies degree over their heads, does anyone really care anymore?
I think theres a place for university. If you want to be a lawyer then a law degree is no doubt helpful. But these nebulous basket weaving degrees are just proof that universities are little more than businesses these days.
If she really wants to get into photography she’d be better off travelling with the £30 k plus she’d spend on a degree, and build up a decent portfolio.
One friend of mine achieved a 1st class honours in photography and currently works in Superdrug. I think it’s his fourth year now and he’s about to become assistant manager (not quite worth the debt)
Another friend is a professional photographer, she has no degree but is passionate about photography and motorsport. When her friends went off to uni she followed the WRC and built up her portfolio by photographing both the events and locations.
Employers in the arts seem to be more impressed by what you can actually do rather than a piece of paper.
Edited by Wobbegong on Wednesday 13th February 18:16
Badda said:
Degrees are about more than just the subject matter. I’d encourage anyone to do a degree in a subject that interests them rather than one they think they should do.
Yes and no. I did a degree in a somewhat pointless subject (Politics). It has been worthless to my employability. I spent almost 10 years after graduation before I fell into a career I should have really embarked on with an apprenticeship when I was 18 (Telecoms and Telemetry) . I owe over 20k which is making around a £120 dint in my pay every month, and will do until i'm nearly 50 after considering interest. That's annoying. So in some ways I'm quite bitter about it, both with myself and tutors pushing me towards higher education with no clear plan.
However I did meet a bunch of great people at uni, got involved in activities I wouldn't have been able to and did a lot of drinking.
Worth the debt? In terms of the people I met maybe. In terms of an education with a view to a job definitely not.
I'd suggest anyone considering uni has a long hard think about that before committing to it and not just go because 'it's something you should do'.
Wobbegong said:
If she really wants to get into photography she’d be better off travelling with the £30 k plus she’d spend on a degree, and build up a decent portfolio.
One friend of mine achieved a 1st class honours in photography and currently works in Superdrug. I think it’s his fourth year now and he’s about to become assistant manager (not quite worth the debt)
Another friend is a professional photographer, she has no degree but is passionate about photography and motorsport. When her friends went off to uni she followed the WRC and built up her portfolio by photographing both the events and locations.
Employers in the arts seem to be more impressed by what you can actually do rather than a piece of paper.
My friend's son never seems to show any interest in taking photos, and the few he does take are not the stuff of professional photography, they look like iPhone snaps.
Another child (well, adult, technically at least) is on a four year(!!) computer games design course. He displayed no aptitude or enthusiasm for designing games prior (unless you count many many hours playing Minecraft), so I find it hard to believe that he'll come out the other side and invent the next Mario Kart.
Another went to college to learn car restoration. He was going to come out, open his own garage and restore Ferraris and Astons. Because he quite liked them. If he'd spent the previous five years stripping down and souping up an old MG or something you might think 'well here's a career worth pursuing'. But he wasn't, and surprise, he never became car restorer.
Back to the photography thing, if the daughter in question is mad keen on photography, spends every weekend up a tree trying to get the perfect shot of an owl, or second shooting weddings for free, then quite possibly a photography career beckons - but she's already well on her way, going to university will only stunt that ambition.
And if she's not, she just has delusions of spending her adult life flying first class around the world and photographing supermodels then I fear it'll likely be a colossal waste of time, much like most of the kids at uni.
Badda said:
Degrees are about more than just the subject matter. I’d encourage anyone to do a degree in a subject that interests them rather than one they think they should do.
100% this but then that's the same for life. Do what you enjoy (as long as it pays the bills!).My daughter would have walked out on her (architecture) degree if she didn't love he subject. The workload (albeit at least +50% self imposed) has been immense.
Badda said:
Degrees are about more than just the subject matter. I’d encourage anyone to do a degree in a subject that interests them rather than one they think they should do.
Why? Pretty much everyone I know who's gone from school to uni has come out the other side with a total disconnect with the real world and an insufferable self image of being superior to everyone else. I saw this the other day and it summed up most graduates perfectly.
Ari said:
Badda said:
Degrees are about more than just the subject matter. I’d encourage anyone to do a degree in a subject that interests them rather than one they think they should do.
Why? Pretty much everyone I know who's gone from school to uni has come out the other side with a total disconnect with the real world and an insufferable self image of being superior to everyone else. I saw this the other day and it summed up most graduates perfectly.
Ari said:
Badda said:
Degrees are about more than just the subject matter. I’d encourage anyone to do a degree in a subject that interests them rather than one they think they should do.
Why? Pretty much everyone I know who's gone from school to uni has come out the other side with a total disconnect with the real world and an insufferable self image of being superior to everyone else. I saw this the other day and it summed up most graduates perfectly.
In answer to the op, it's not realistic to try to do two degrees at once. She'll have to decide.
If desiring a university degree, of the two I would suggest English Literature. As has been suggested above, I'm not sure a Photography degree is rated/highly desirable in actual jobbing photography circles.
English Literature is probably a fairly well regarded Arts degree. Is your daughter good enough to get into a Russell Group university? That should be her aim IMO.
English Literature is probably a fairly well regarded Arts degree. Is your daughter good enough to get into a Russell Group university? That should be her aim IMO.
sparks_E46 said:
I don’t think that paints a realistic picture. Most graduates are employed doing something, and the electricians I know earn around £25k.
No of course it doesn't, it's called humour. But like most humour, it's funny because there's more than a grain of truth in it.How many are graduates (of basket weaving courses - media studies, games design, photography etc etc etc) are employed in jobs that could have only been accessed by getting those degrees do you think?
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