Austin Metro A Series help please
Discussion
So I’ve taken on the mantle of saving a 1988 Austin Metro 1.0 City.
‘Betty’ has only done 14,000 miles from new but hasn’t moved for 12 years. Bodywork is excellent, interior is exceptional but she clearly needs recommissioning.
I stupidly told myself I’d be able to get her going today but that’s, eeerrrrrrr, not happened.
Things I’ve done:
- replaced the spark plugs
- put fresh fuel in (5litres). Tank was pretty empty but some old stuff still in there no doubt.
- cleaned up some connectors
- sprayed carb cleaner into the carb inlet
- removed the lead off the ignition coil and put against the block to check for a spark...nothing there
- removed an ignition lead and put against the block to check for a spark...nothing there
- scratched my head
Now I can’t hear the fuel pump whirr when I turn the ignition on, but I can smell fuel. Would you hear the pump on these?
I will admit then when I refitted the power wire to the ignition coil the coil ‘male connector’ snapped so that clearly needs a new coil (on order) but what else can I try?
Also does anyone know what these various things are please?
‘Betty’ has only done 14,000 miles from new but hasn’t moved for 12 years. Bodywork is excellent, interior is exceptional but she clearly needs recommissioning.
I stupidly told myself I’d be able to get her going today but that’s, eeerrrrrrr, not happened.
Things I’ve done:
- replaced the spark plugs
- put fresh fuel in (5litres). Tank was pretty empty but some old stuff still in there no doubt.
- cleaned up some connectors
- sprayed carb cleaner into the carb inlet
- removed the lead off the ignition coil and put against the block to check for a spark...nothing there
- removed an ignition lead and put against the block to check for a spark...nothing there
- scratched my head
Now I can’t hear the fuel pump whirr when I turn the ignition on, but I can smell fuel. Would you hear the pump on these?
I will admit then when I refitted the power wire to the ignition coil the coil ‘male connector’ snapped so that clearly needs a new coil (on order) but what else can I try?
Also does anyone know what these various things are please?
Fuel pump will be mechanical. (ie engine driven)
points/condenser will need attention, I'd fit new ones. Rotor arm/cap/leads will also be in a state I'd imagine. Again, just replace for new for reliability.
Carb is probably gummed up with old stale fuel. Will need a strip/clean. Ultrasonic if you're doing it properly.
points/condenser will need attention, I'd fit new ones. Rotor arm/cap/leads will also be in a state I'd imagine. Again, just replace for new for reliability.
Carb is probably gummed up with old stale fuel. Will need a strip/clean. Ultrasonic if you're doing it properly.
Edited by DuraAce on Saturday 16th February 18:02
If there's nothing coming out of the coil then presumably there's nothing going into it so check the distributor is getting power (check points etc in passing) and then on back through the fuse box.
At least it's a fairly simple engine.
Oh, and the tyres are time expired so bin them whatever the tread depth.
At least it's a fairly simple engine.
Oh, and the tyres are time expired so bin them whatever the tread depth.
Thanks DuraAce and Dogwatch.
So a mechanical pump not whirr then, and a lack of noise isn’t a concern?
How will I know if power is going to the coil - connect the positive end of a multimeter to it and see if I get a reading?
Is it the same for the fuse box ie stick the positive cable into the fuse and see if anything happens?
I honestly think (maybe naively) that it will be something simple because it’s a well preserved car, although the engine components have plenty of surface rust unlike the body.
Tyres are the originals I think although aren’t cracking. Main thing it getting her running.
Plug leads and new dizzy cap on order but i think the non running issue is upstream of that. The engine turns but isn’t trying to fire......there’s no attemp at burning fuel that I can sense.
Am I right in thinking that pulling the main coil lead and putting it near the engine should result in a spark, and if it isn’t then there is an issue I need to resolve?
So a mechanical pump not whirr then, and a lack of noise isn’t a concern?
How will I know if power is going to the coil - connect the positive end of a multimeter to it and see if I get a reading?
Is it the same for the fuse box ie stick the positive cable into the fuse and see if anything happens?
I honestly think (maybe naively) that it will be something simple because it’s a well preserved car, although the engine components have plenty of surface rust unlike the body.
Tyres are the originals I think although aren’t cracking. Main thing it getting her running.
Plug leads and new dizzy cap on order but i think the non running issue is upstream of that. The engine turns but isn’t trying to fire......there’s no attemp at burning fuel that I can sense.
Am I right in thinking that pulling the main coil lead and putting it near the engine should result in a spark, and if it isn’t then there is an issue I need to resolve?
b9boy said:
So a mechanical pump not whirr then, and a lack of noise isn’t a concern?
A mechanical pump doesn't whirr. It's usually operated by an eccentric on the camshaft. You could remove it & operate the lever by hand to see if you get fuel through.b9boy said:
I honestly think (maybe naively) that it will be something simple because it’s a well preserved car, although the engine components have plenty of surface rust unlike the body.
Very likely. These are simple cars.b9boy said:
Plug leads and new dizzy cap on order but i think the non running issue is upstream of that. The engine turns but isn’t trying to fire......there’s no attemp at burning fuel that I can sense.
If you haven't got a spark it won't run. I would expect a whiff of carb cleaner into an engine with a spark would see the engine run for a short period on just the cleaner. Works the same way as Easystart (as does clutch & brake cleaner or a few drops of petrol into the carb). b9boy said:
Am I right in thinking that pulling the main coil lead and putting it near the engine should result in a spark, and if it isn’t then there is an issue I need to resolve?
Yes. Hold it just clear of the block & get someone to turn the engine over. Use something to protect yourself from getting a shock.If you do get a spark then repeat with the end of the lead a few mm above the centre of the rotor arm. If a spark jumps the gap then the rotor arm is faulty & is earthing the power.
If you haven't already considered it I'd suggest getting the Haynes manual & working through it. Very useful when we had ours!
Edited by paintman on Saturday 16th February 19:09
Go steady when checking the ignition supply from ignition switch to ignition coil as there is a ballast resistor wire in the loom, it runs from close to the switch and out through the drivers side bulkhead grommet and then along the inner wing, the wire is taped into the loom. The Austin Metro resistor wire is often found to be burnt out in the loom
As already noted, I’d start afresh with all of the easy cheap ignition parts before digging too far. When I had a mini fitted with A+ metro engine it used to eat condensers on the Ducelier distributor and this was the only reason I ever had a mechanical breakdown in that car. As well as the condenser make sure you fit a new set of points and rotor arm as well as the cap you have already ordered.
I would then take a spark plug out and connect it back up to its plug lead whilst resting on the rocker cover (so the plug can earth to the engine) and get someone to turn over the engine to look for a spark at that plug. If you have no spark at one plug then start to look upstream of the distributor to the coil etc.
As noted in an earlier post, the A+ engine usually used a ballasted ignition system, meaning that for starting the coil received a full 12v supply to boost ignition and then once running (probably when ignition switch was moved out of start position I guess) the ballast resistor became into play to reduce the volts to the coil and provide a ‘normal’ ignition strength for the duration the engine is running. If you ca run a direct +12v feed to the coil you will get the ‘start’ voltage and rule out any issues with the ballast system temporarily
Chris
I would then take a spark plug out and connect it back up to its plug lead whilst resting on the rocker cover (so the plug can earth to the engine) and get someone to turn over the engine to look for a spark at that plug. If you have no spark at one plug then start to look upstream of the distributor to the coil etc.
As noted in an earlier post, the A+ engine usually used a ballasted ignition system, meaning that for starting the coil received a full 12v supply to boost ignition and then once running (probably when ignition switch was moved out of start position I guess) the ballast resistor became into play to reduce the volts to the coil and provide a ‘normal’ ignition strength for the duration the engine is running. If you ca run a direct +12v feed to the coil you will get the ‘start’ voltage and rule out any issues with the ballast system temporarily
Chris
Thanks everyone for the continued assistance.
Does anyone know what the canister thing is in the middle of this shot that the thick clean pipe goes into?
Do we know what should be attached to the broken wire to this thing? It's the main body of the distributor, where the dist cap connects to the body?
This knackered looking wire connects to the dist body, but looks like it wont come off/isnt supposed to come off?
This wire connects at the other end to the carb body. Do we know what it does and where it should go? I wondered if it should go to the broken wire on the dist body but it looks too short (perhaps some pipe has broken off and been lost?)
Do we know what this thing is? Front of the engine at the bottom underneath the distributor. Seems to have thick power and earth wires going straight from the battery?
I'm sure these things arent helping....
Edited by b9boy on Monday 18th February 10:22
The broken stub on the distributor is the vacuum advance connection and the "wire" you mention in the photo 2 further down is the vacuum pipe that should go onto it. The rubber sheath has broken is all. No biggie. Kind of a "duh" thing not to know though if you're trying to fix a car with clockwork ignition.
Don't stick things in to the ht outlet on the coil....
I forget whether 1988 they had moved away from points and on to electronic ignition. I'm sure they were electronic by that point. Certainly the 1275s were.
Where are you? I know you probably want the achievement of doing this yourself but I think you probably need a bit of help. There are plenty of people on here who will if your local. I'll kick off and say if your within half an hour or so from me in East yorks I'll happily come over and get it running and leave you with a list of jobs.
I forget whether 1988 they had moved away from points and on to electronic ignition. I'm sure they were electronic by that point. Certainly the 1275s were.
Where are you? I know you probably want the achievement of doing this yourself but I think you probably need a bit of help. There are plenty of people on here who will if your local. I'll kick off and say if your within half an hour or so from me in East yorks I'll happily come over and get it running and leave you with a list of jobs.
b9boy said:
Thanks everyone for the continued assistance.
Do we know what this thing is? Front of the engine at the bottom underneath the distributor. Seems to have thick power and earth wires going straight from the battery?
Seriously, if you don't know what that is then please please please pick up a Haynes manual and have a good read before you fry yourself at best.Do we know what this thing is? Front of the engine at the bottom underneath the distributor. Seems to have thick power and earth wires going straight from the battery?
Given the level of knowledge implied by your questions, I think you've massively underestimated the size of the job you're taking on.
None of the systems you're dealing with are particularly complex, but you do need to understand them reasonably well in order to diagnose them. Here you have an engine which has obviously got multiple faults. Every wire, every connector, every vacuum line, every fuel line is suspect. Unless you're willing to spend potentially weeks or months teaching yourself how engines work and basically rebuilding this engine bay from the ground up, I don't think you'll get it running. Learning on a working engine is one thing, but on an engine with multiple unknown faults is really going about it the hard way.
None of the systems you're dealing with are particularly complex, but you do need to understand them reasonably well in order to diagnose them. Here you have an engine which has obviously got multiple faults. Every wire, every connector, every vacuum line, every fuel line is suspect. Unless you're willing to spend potentially weeks or months teaching yourself how engines work and basically rebuilding this engine bay from the ground up, I don't think you'll get it running. Learning on a working engine is one thing, but on an engine with multiple unknown faults is really going about it the hard way.
If it were mine...
New plugs and leads
New points, condensor, cap and rotor.
And possibly a new coil.
Although I'd have thought by 1988 even BL / Rover or whoever they were called back then would have gone electronic ignition wise.
Replace that broken / missing vacuum hose between the dizzy and the inlet manifold.
I'd pull the the fuel line off the carb, crank over to establish fuel delivery and pump is working.
I'd take the lid off the carb, pull the piston assembly out, make sure it is free to move in its bore
While the carb piston is out, make sure it is clean
Reassemble the carb and make sure the 'dashpot' has some oil in it.
However I do vaguely recall the A+ having some kind of wax stat needle seat arrangement extra over the simple needle seat the older A series did.
Assuming that SU carb has a float bowl, I'd pop the lid off that also and check the float is intact and that the float valve is working, mouth and blowing - float up and blow = no blow = good, float down and blow = blow = good.
A compression test wouldn't go amiss either. [edit] do that first, do that before spending any more on it!
I would relish the opportunity to have a fettle with and get that running again!
New plugs and leads
New points, condensor, cap and rotor.
And possibly a new coil.
Although I'd have thought by 1988 even BL / Rover or whoever they were called back then would have gone electronic ignition wise.
Replace that broken / missing vacuum hose between the dizzy and the inlet manifold.
I'd pull the the fuel line off the carb, crank over to establish fuel delivery and pump is working.
I'd take the lid off the carb, pull the piston assembly out, make sure it is free to move in its bore
While the carb piston is out, make sure it is clean
Reassemble the carb and make sure the 'dashpot' has some oil in it.
However I do vaguely recall the A+ having some kind of wax stat needle seat arrangement extra over the simple needle seat the older A series did.
Assuming that SU carb has a float bowl, I'd pop the lid off that also and check the float is intact and that the float valve is working, mouth and blowing - float up and blow = no blow = good, float down and blow = blow = good.
A compression test wouldn't go amiss either. [edit] do that first, do that before spending any more on it!
I would relish the opportunity to have a fettle with and get that running again!
b9boy said:
Also, whilst testing whether the ignition coil was getting power I got this (althugh not sure how to interpret the results?):
How do you think measuring the resistance is going to tell you anything about whether the coil is getting power? 
If you don't know what you're measuring and why, you're wasting your time.
wildoliver said:
Don't stick things in to the ht outlet on the coil....
I forget whether 1988 they had moved away from points and on to electronic ignition. I'm sure they were electronic by that point. Certainly the 1275s were.
Where are you? I know you probably want the achievement of doing this yourself but I think you probably need a bit of help. There are plenty of people on here who will if your local. I'll kick off and say if your within half an hour or so from me in East yorks I'll happily come over and get it running and leave you with a list of jobs.
Hi there.I forget whether 1988 they had moved away from points and on to electronic ignition. I'm sure they were electronic by that point. Certainly the 1275s were.
Where are you? I know you probably want the achievement of doing this yourself but I think you probably need a bit of help. There are plenty of people on here who will if your local. I'll kick off and say if your within half an hour or so from me in East yorks I'll happily come over and get it running and leave you with a list of jobs.
I'm based in Preston, Lancs. If anyone is up for helping I will gladly cover fuel, supply brews, and a there's a drink or two in it for you!!!
Targarama said:
b9boy said:
Thanks everyone for the continued assistance.
Do we know what this thing is? Front of the engine at the bottom underneath the distributor. Seems to have thick power and earth wires going straight from the battery?
Seriously, if you don't know what that is then please please please pick up a Haynes manual and have a good read before you fry yourself at best.Do we know what this thing is? Front of the engine at the bottom underneath the distributor. Seems to have thick power and earth wires going straight from the battery?
Also, if you've got questions then post them one/two at a time as multiple questions makes the thread hard to follow (and harder for you to interpret advice)
DuraAce said:
Also, if you've got questions then post them one/two at a time as multiple questions makes the thread hard to follow (and harder for you to interpret advice)
Thanks 
...and Haynes manual duly on order
For the record I wasnt testing the coil for power using Ohms. Was checking the thing for an open circuit, just typed with brevity.
I do need assistance though, and this is outside of my knowledge base.....which i think has been highlighted quick starkly now ha ha.
Edited by b9boy on Monday 18th February 14:29
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