Unrealistic expectations of the modern daily car?
Discussion
Hi,
Around six months ago I purchased a third generation Focus estate with the 2.0 litre diesel. In this time I have put on it about 10k miles (forecasting around 24k a year).
I purchased the car on the basis of it being as good as previous generations of the Focus, but I am just not taking quite the liking to it as I had hoped. There are a few reasons for this.
1. High level of servo assistance on the brakes. This means if you dare sneeze on the pedal you could stand the car on its nose. When I have googled this it seems to be a common complaint of Ford cars of around 2011 onwards models.
2. The euro 5 engine has dreadful pedal delay when compared to earlier euro 3 and 4 engines (such as that in the Jag X-Type and Mondeo mk3). I am to believe this is due to the emission controls.
3. Very aggressive anti-stall which makes it hard to drive smooth whilst pulling away unless you raise revs to a minimum of 2,000rpm.
4. Fuel economy isn't amazing for the class of car. I have achieved 67mpg if I stick to a strict off-boost 60mph but if I cruise at 70mph, the fuel economy averages around 47-49mpg. My old Mondeo mk3 consistently achieved 52-54mpg with its euro 4 engine.
I also used to have a first generation Focus Estate with the robust 1.8 TDDi. I really liked that car and only moved it on at the time due to a company car arriving. The company car was an Astra J 1.7 estate. That too was a Euro 5, but was painfully slow compared to the Mondeo mk3 that I replaced that with (due to a job change) even though on paper it had the same power and torque. With this car I don't remember it being hard to drive smoothly neither do I remember the brakes being highly servo'd. But I also understand they weren't mechanically very strong or reliable (or at least the gearbox) either.
If you've made it this far, my question should be straight forward. Am I expecting too much from the average mid sized estate if it were built any time from say 2010 on wards?
Thanks,
Around six months ago I purchased a third generation Focus estate with the 2.0 litre diesel. In this time I have put on it about 10k miles (forecasting around 24k a year).
I purchased the car on the basis of it being as good as previous generations of the Focus, but I am just not taking quite the liking to it as I had hoped. There are a few reasons for this.
1. High level of servo assistance on the brakes. This means if you dare sneeze on the pedal you could stand the car on its nose. When I have googled this it seems to be a common complaint of Ford cars of around 2011 onwards models.
2. The euro 5 engine has dreadful pedal delay when compared to earlier euro 3 and 4 engines (such as that in the Jag X-Type and Mondeo mk3). I am to believe this is due to the emission controls.
3. Very aggressive anti-stall which makes it hard to drive smooth whilst pulling away unless you raise revs to a minimum of 2,000rpm.
4. Fuel economy isn't amazing for the class of car. I have achieved 67mpg if I stick to a strict off-boost 60mph but if I cruise at 70mph, the fuel economy averages around 47-49mpg. My old Mondeo mk3 consistently achieved 52-54mpg with its euro 4 engine.
I also used to have a first generation Focus Estate with the robust 1.8 TDDi. I really liked that car and only moved it on at the time due to a company car arriving. The company car was an Astra J 1.7 estate. That too was a Euro 5, but was painfully slow compared to the Mondeo mk3 that I replaced that with (due to a job change) even though on paper it had the same power and torque. With this car I don't remember it being hard to drive smoothly neither do I remember the brakes being highly servo'd. But I also understand they weren't mechanically very strong or reliable (or at least the gearbox) either.
If you've made it this far, my question should be straight forward. Am I expecting too much from the average mid sized estate if it were built any time from say 2010 on wards?
Thanks,
The overservo'd brakes is annoying and potentially dangerous as the first 10% of the pedal travel seems correspond to 80% of the braking capability so as you push harder expecting more nothing happens, I had a go in a bog standard Fiesta and at higher speeds you can't even get the ABS to activate so the low speed braking is misleading imo.
Same happens with DBW throttle, it requests a lot more throttle than what you would expect, I have two performance cars and one has a cable whilst the other has DBW and looking at realtime data logging the DBW car requests a lot more throttle opening with just the minutest tap of the throttle pedal.
The shove of modern turbo diesels is not that good either, you feel like your going fast when you plant your foot but then the turbo runs out of gas before you're even halfway up the revband.
I think it's so people who never exploit the capabilities of their car are given the impression that it's faster than it really is, a shame imo as it was harder to be an inept driver years ago so people never learn the limits of the car these days.
Same happens with DBW throttle, it requests a lot more throttle than what you would expect, I have two performance cars and one has a cable whilst the other has DBW and looking at realtime data logging the DBW car requests a lot more throttle opening with just the minutest tap of the throttle pedal.
The shove of modern turbo diesels is not that good either, you feel like your going fast when you plant your foot but then the turbo runs out of gas before you're even halfway up the revband.
I think it's so people who never exploit the capabilities of their car are given the impression that it's faster than it really is, a shame imo as it was harder to be an inept driver years ago so people never learn the limits of the car these days.
The few newer cars I've driven have all had that annoying 'auto-brake' thing, where you hold your foot in one place and the braking gets stronger - presumably so old ladies with no ability to apply proper pressure to the pedal can actually stop before driving into something, but it makes smooth driving damn near impossible.
I've never driven a focus, mondeo or Astra, of any generation, but I agree with you that cars are regressing /worse/less smooth for the competent driver.
I had an x308 jag xjr which was just buttery smooth in every way. Brakes, steering, gearbox all perfectly adapted to what you want them to do. I drive a current gen bmw 530i regularly now. It's 'excellent', but so much less smooth. The brakes, like all newish cars are snatchy, and it won't coast along off throttle, keeps changing down its billions of gears, slowing itself down when that's exactly what you don't want it to do. Throttle is also similarly Irritating. You can drive it smoothly but it requires much more effort than it should.
I had an x308 jag xjr which was just buttery smooth in every way. Brakes, steering, gearbox all perfectly adapted to what you want them to do. I drive a current gen bmw 530i regularly now. It's 'excellent', but so much less smooth. The brakes, like all newish cars are snatchy, and it won't coast along off throttle, keeps changing down its billions of gears, slowing itself down when that's exactly what you don't want it to do. Throttle is also similarly Irritating. You can drive it smoothly but it requires much more effort than it should.
RSTurboPaul said:
The few newer cars I've driven have all had that annoying 'auto-brake' thing, where you hold your foot in one place and the braking gets stronger - presumably so old ladies with no ability to apply proper pressure to the pedal can actually stop before driving into something, but it makes smooth driving damn near impossible.
Are you trolling or is that actually a thing?I thought lane assist and front assist (ACC) were bad enough.
I feel like an avoidance manoeuvre would be practically impossible in a car equipped with all 3.
A gentle brake turns into violent one while you struggle to move lanes because the car is turning against you. Probably for another thread, but is there actually any proof these things increase safety?
To answer OP, yes, emission controls and desensitized inputs/controls have ruined modern cars.
Saudade said:
RSTurboPaul said:
The few newer cars I've driven have all had that annoying 'auto-brake' thing, where you hold your foot in one place and the braking gets stronger - presumably so old ladies with no ability to apply proper pressure to the pedal can actually stop before driving into something, but it makes smooth driving damn near impossible.
Are you trolling or is that actually a thing?I thought lane assist and front assist (ACC) were bad enough.
I feel like an avoidance manoeuvre would be practically impossible in a car equipped with all 3.
A gentle brake turns into violent one while you struggle to move lanes because the car is turning against you. Probably for another thread, but is there actually any proof these things increase safety?
To answer OP, yes, emission controls and desensitized inputs/controls have ruined modern cars.
I think it was a Corsa I drove (probably the previous shape to whatever the current one is) and it was not dissimilar to my previous car with uprated, Carbone Lorraine RC5+ brake pads, in that the braking force increased as you left your foot in the same position (which I do when I just want a gradual, relaxed slow down towards a line of queued cars a quarter of a mile in front on a well-sighted road).
My previous car did it because the pads warmed up and the friction level increased, whereas I'm pretty sure the Corsa wasn't running aggressive pads like the RC5+, lol.
Perhaps it's only a thing on shopping trolleys aimed at the middle-aged, female, bimbling-around sector of the market??
[/stereotyping]
I am aware that some cars now pre-load the brakes if the driver jumps off the accelerator pedal in a manner that the car thinks is an emergency braking situation just about to occur, and then applies maximum braking pressure if the driver appears to be attempting an emergency stop (with flashing brake lights and/or hazard lights as a warning to drivers behind).
As you say, if that is combined with lane-keeping technology that tries to stop the driver from swapping lanes and doesn't switch itself off in an emergency stop situation, it must be a nightmare trying to undertake an avoidance manoeuvre, even more so if you're also trying to avoid being smacked up the rear by a Transit van that's three feet from your rear bumper and has brakes/tyres of unknown quality!
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