Anyone have a 22mm Pragmasis chain?

[TT Tim]

...as per the title.

Anyone use one? I'm looking at using one at work to securely lock my new 'toy'.

Is it too heavy to manage?

Is it, in your view worth the extra over the 19mm?

Thanks

Tim

[bogie]

I have the 16mm and find that is plenty for a home use static chain to floor anchor.

A 22mm must be like a ship anchor

[CousinDupree]

bogie said:

I have the 16mm and find that is plenty for a home use static chain to floor anchor.

A 22mm must be like a ship anchor

These new 22mm chains take about 3 mins per cut with a top spec grinder and you have to cut them twice.

Is that worth it over a 16mm chain, given the weight and practicalities that may result in it not being used as often? Dunno.

I guess it depends on the application.

[Krikkit]

Visor down reckon they got through that in less than a minute with a mains grinder, seems like a bit of waste to me.

[bogie]

You can only do so much, my insurance states I must have physical security on a particular bike, so a chain and ground anchor at home, alarmed disc lock for when out and about.

I wouldn't be lugging about any >16mm size chain with me, if you need one at a place of work etc then leave it there. Thats the issue with the larger chains, they are just too unwieldy to carry and the smaller ones can be cropped in seconds.

[MrGman]

I’m all about multiple devices now, couple of disc locks as tight as possible either side of the caliper and a chain and I’m happy. It’s a bit a faff but surely more off putting than just a single lock?

[Prof Prolapse]

CousinDupree said:

These new 22mm chains take about 3 mins per cut with a top spec grinder and you have to cut them twice.

Is that worth it over a 16mm chain, given the weight and practicalities that may result in it not being used as often? Dunno.

Three minutes per cut? I'm open to being wrong but I really doubt that...

I have the 16 or 19mm pragmasis chain, I believe it's uncroppable which is the only reason I have it as that's my biggest security risk.

To my mind, any bigger and you're buying a few seconds of extra time at significant additional expense and inconvenience.

Say it takes them a full minute longer to cut through an extra 3mm (again which I don't believe). What do those 60 seconds actually matter?

[julian64]

I think as long as the chain isn't crop-able then there is no point going bigger and bigger.

I have large bolt croppers and a 9inch angle grinder at home, and have teenage sons so I have , on occasion, have to bust chains.

Bolt croppers are fast and quiet, and to be honest its not worth putting a chain on a bike that can be cropped. A nine inch angle grinder went through an oxford chain in about 15 seconds. The biggest problem was that it wasn't battery, so I had to start a generator sat In the boot of my car, and get my son to stand on one side of the chain while I stood on the other to stop the bugger moving.

In the middle of a fairly busy shopping centre, no one even came up to us. He still uses the chain minus one link.

[Bumblebee7]

I've got the Almax 19mm and it is already an absolute beast. As above I bought it because it can't be cut with bolt croppers. I was going to use it at home and work but it was far too heavy. If the lock is going to stay in one location then that's fine but it's far too heavy to regularly move. Soon after I bought a pragmasis 16mm that I leave at work. I rarely use it as there's only one bay with anchor bolts and it quickly fills up. I much, much prefer the 16mm but that's due to the portability. If it won't move then there's no harm in the thicker chain.

One bit of advice I will say is I would really highly recommend the noose neck chain. My almax is 2m long and nowhere near as useful as my 1.5m pragmasis with noose. Also, with a shorter chain it's easier to keep it off the ground which makes it harder to use croppers or an angle grinder.

[Cardinal Hips]

Prof Prolapse said:

I have the 16 or 19mm pragmasis chain, I believe it's uncroppable which is the only reason I have it as that's my biggest security risk.

I've got a 19mm, with this guy, because it can't be cropped. We all know grinders go through everything, I don't know why people have to keep pointing this out like it's some sort of revelation. OMG really, angle grinders cut through metal?! Who knew? XD

22mm must be a joke of a thing.

As said up there I go for multiple layers of pain in the ass for thieves, 19mm chain through frame to ground anchor, kryptonite d-lock through front wheel and fork or disc brake lock, squire padlocks and decent (MOD uses them) hasps on perimeter gates, garage dead-bolted and another squire padlock and a motion detection cam with infra red that alerts me of movement..... I think they'll go for the bikes street parked within a few miles radius. Make your stuff the hardest to steal. Not that I have anything remotely desirable anyway tbh. Just some oily rag condition stters from the 50's-70's, slow, uncomfortable, unreliable, leaky, crap brakes, loud, heavy, awful awful machines. But I love them.

[CoolHands]

I lost 2 19mm chains and squire locks and 2 disk locks when they stole my scooter. It still pisses me off cos of the cost and I liked those chains

Now I just use 1 long 13mm pragmasis as there’s no difference in the result, only the cost. If they have an angle grinder there’s no practical difference

[Prof Prolapse]

Cardinal Hips said:

I think they'll go for the bikes street parked within a few miles radius. Make your stuff the hardest to steal. Not that I have anything remotely desirable anyway tbh. Just some oily rag condition stters from the 50's-70's, slow, uncomfortable, unreliable, leaky, crap brakes, loud, heavy, awful awful machines. But I love them.

There's two identifical Africa Twins on our street. One is mine, it's past a locked gate with security lights, sat in my alarmed shed (with all tools locked away and powered off), with an un-croppable chain, and fixed through a Y-shaped anchor I personally set in steel reinforced concrete, all overseen by a rottweiler who does not like people in his shed, and will be released if I see someone there who shouldn't be.

The other identical bike is parked outside a house five doors down, I'm not aware of any physical security.

"I don't need to outrun the Lion, I just need to outrun you".

[Dog Star]

I've got one - I use it at home only; it is waaaaaay to heavy and cumbersome to lug about.

IMO for parking at work I'd be happy enough with a 16mm (which is still a beast of a thing (I have one of those too)).

[7w7]

I have a 19mm Almax at home...there is no way I would carry it with me. I was planning on getting the 22mm but I had already bought a ground anchor and the 22mm was too large.

[clen666]

I thought I’d bump this thread up as I’m looking at a 16mm pragmasis chain.

The website states that the noose chains are 2m minimum length, those with 1.5m noose chains, were they a special order or do they just not do them anymore?

My garage is a mess at the moment, I will just be chaining two bikes together - the 2m noose chain I can see being good for this.

Eventual plan is to fit a ground anchor and chain for each bike, would the 2m noose chain be too long for this and end up with a lot of it trailing on the ground (which apparently isn’t advisable)?

[Turkish91]

clen666 said:

I thought I’d bump this thread up as I’m looking at a 16mm pragmasis chain.

The website states that the noose chains are 2m minimum length, those with 1.5m noose chains, were they a special order or do they just not do them anymore?

My garage is a mess at the moment, I will just be chaining two bikes together - the 2m noose chain I can see being good for this.

Eventual plan is to fit a ground anchor and chain for each bike, would the 2m noose chain be too long for this and end up with a lot of it trailing on the ground (which apparently isn’t advisable)?

I could have sworn I had the 19mm but just checked my emails from when I bought it a few years back and mine is a 16mm 1.5m with the one long link at one end (what I assume you mean by the noose?). Mine only just fits through a Mammoth double ground anchor. Not the best but I have mine go through the front wheel right in the corner of my garage and at 1.5m it’s a tight fit but keeps it off the floor.

[Prof Prolapse]

clen666 said:

Eventual plan is to fit a ground anchor and chain for each bike, would the 2m noose chain be too long for this and end up with a lot of it trailing on the ground (which apparently isn’t advisable)?

Yes it should not be touching the ground to reduce risk of someone trying to shatter it.

You just make sure your bike is as close to the anchor as possible (so the bike can't be rolled to make additional slack in the security chain), then do a few loops around the wheel/frame/whatever to eliminate any slack.

It's not an exact science, and nothing is perfect of course, it's just a case of taking reasonable steps to reduce risk.

[Dog Star]

clen666 said:

I thought I’d bump this thread up as I’m looking at a 16mm pragmasis chain.

The website states that the noose chains are 2m minimum length, those with 1.5m noose chains, were they a special order or do they just not do them anymore?

My garage is a mess at the moment, I will just be chaining two bikes together - the 2m noose chain I can see being good for this.

Eventual plan is to fit a ground anchor and chain for each bike, would the 2m noose chain be too long for this and end up with a lot of it trailing on the ground (which apparently isn’t advisable)?

Give them a bell - they are still working according to their fb posts.

[Mindas]

Hi all, just for everyone getting Pragmasis or any other chain and lock .. my mt10 been stolen in 5min, they cut through it all.. I had 19mm chain on back wheel, another small 12mm chain on front wheel, and Abus8008 detecto on front brake disc.. those thieving c...s cut pragmasis chain, front chain, but couldn’t cut Abus disc lock, so cut through brake disc.. it took them no longer than 5mins..only saver for me was a tracker fitted.. so if you’re looking for a chain, I’d recommend at least 22mm.. at least it’ll take longer to cut through..
And tracker 100% .. hope it’ll help someone.. I had to learn it this way myself..

[Cardinal Hips]

Mindas said:

so if you’re looking for a chain, I’d recommend at least 22mm.. at least it’ll take longer to cut through..

Yeah, about 10 seconds longer. So long as it's uncroppable, what's the point in going any bigger. That's my thought anyway.

Was the bike parked in the street or in a garage? Any ground anchor? How tight did you have the chain? Easy to get access to?