997.2 vs 991.2 with 48 hour test drive
Discussion
My wife has owned a 997.2 for 3 years now and it went into the dealer this week for a service. The dealer kindly lent us a new 991.2 for 2 days whilst they did the service etc on my wife's 997.
We both drove the 991 and I am a little unsure what to think as I was expecting to be more amazed and overall was just left a bit unsure and would be interested in comments from the more knowledgeable drivers on here.
I do not drive the 997 often as I do all the boring journeys and have a Golf R estate to do these in but I was expecting more of a difference between the 997 and the much newer 991 and certainly was not expecting some aspects to seem like a Golf.
The 997 compared to my Golf is very noisy and I was expecting a much smoother more subdued and compliant ride/drive in the 991 but it was very similar to the 997. It was however just a little more remote as an experience than in the 997 where you seem more connected to what is going on outside and I am not sure what to think about with this. On the one hand it was good that it still feels very sportscar like but on the other it did not seem a step forward as the experience was just a tiny bit more detached than in the older car. I suppose I was expecting either smooth cushioned GT car or raw edgy sportscar and it wasn't.
It rode potholes slightly better than the 997 whilst still feeling more tightly sprung and alert but it seemed less relaxed when just trundling along. We never bother pressing sportier suspension button in the 997 as the roads around here are quite rough.
The steering in the 991 was actually very like in my Golf which although not a bad thing was a surprise as I was expecting something more exceptional.
The engine in the 991 responded faster to the accelerator than it does in the 997 and had a sharper/harder edge to it but somehow felt like it had lost some character and was more of a very powerful appliance that just did the functions demanded of it.
The interior was a bit disappointing really. Beautiful build quality to it but actually the same plastics and switches that are in my Golf. We wanted to be wowed by it but actually it was just nice and had no unique touch that set it apart from a much cheaper VW group product. It is also identical to the interior of a Caymen which is half the price.
Perhaps my expectations were just too high. I was expecting to really be amazed and feel like the upgraded experience would be worth it but I am unsure. Would more time reveal a more exciting experience that would make the newer car more compelling?
Genuinely interested in the observations of more experienced Porsche owners, NOT trying to start any arguments so no need for aggressive answers just my opinion which is only based on limited Porsche experience.
On a separate subject, what do all the office staff in these shiny dealerships actually do all day. Presumably they all have different functions but I would have thought, one head salesmen, two other sales staff, a service manager and two service counter staff and that would do. The overheads must be huge. No wonder an oil change and a rub over with a shiny rag ended up at the best part of a thousand.
We both drove the 991 and I am a little unsure what to think as I was expecting to be more amazed and overall was just left a bit unsure and would be interested in comments from the more knowledgeable drivers on here.
I do not drive the 997 often as I do all the boring journeys and have a Golf R estate to do these in but I was expecting more of a difference between the 997 and the much newer 991 and certainly was not expecting some aspects to seem like a Golf.
The 997 compared to my Golf is very noisy and I was expecting a much smoother more subdued and compliant ride/drive in the 991 but it was very similar to the 997. It was however just a little more remote as an experience than in the 997 where you seem more connected to what is going on outside and I am not sure what to think about with this. On the one hand it was good that it still feels very sportscar like but on the other it did not seem a step forward as the experience was just a tiny bit more detached than in the older car. I suppose I was expecting either smooth cushioned GT car or raw edgy sportscar and it wasn't.
It rode potholes slightly better than the 997 whilst still feeling more tightly sprung and alert but it seemed less relaxed when just trundling along. We never bother pressing sportier suspension button in the 997 as the roads around here are quite rough.
The steering in the 991 was actually very like in my Golf which although not a bad thing was a surprise as I was expecting something more exceptional.
The engine in the 991 responded faster to the accelerator than it does in the 997 and had a sharper/harder edge to it but somehow felt like it had lost some character and was more of a very powerful appliance that just did the functions demanded of it.
The interior was a bit disappointing really. Beautiful build quality to it but actually the same plastics and switches that are in my Golf. We wanted to be wowed by it but actually it was just nice and had no unique touch that set it apart from a much cheaper VW group product. It is also identical to the interior of a Caymen which is half the price.
Perhaps my expectations were just too high. I was expecting to really be amazed and feel like the upgraded experience would be worth it but I am unsure. Would more time reveal a more exciting experience that would make the newer car more compelling?
Genuinely interested in the observations of more experienced Porsche owners, NOT trying to start any arguments so no need for aggressive answers just my opinion which is only based on limited Porsche experience.
On a separate subject, what do all the office staff in these shiny dealerships actually do all day. Presumably they all have different functions but I would have thought, one head salesmen, two other sales staff, a service manager and two service counter staff and that would do. The overheads must be huge. No wonder an oil change and a rub over with a shiny rag ended up at the best part of a thousand.
The 991 was a GTS version. Would a GT3 give the sort of astonishing difference in experience I was expecting. Is the ride / handling / steering and interior such a step up or are my miss judged expectations of uniqueness only to be found with the hugely expensive brands such as Ferrari.
I do not see any reason for more power, even my Golf or my wife's 997 you cannot drive with any real enthusiasm on the road as you are so quickly travelling faster than is reasonable to do on public roads. It was the sense of specialness that I think I was expecting and did not seem to find.
I do not see any reason for more power, even my Golf or my wife's 997 you cannot drive with any real enthusiasm on the road as you are so quickly travelling faster than is reasonable to do on public roads. It was the sense of specialness that I think I was expecting and did not seem to find.
scarecrow1966 said:
The 991 was a GTS version. Would a GT3 give the sort of astonishing difference in experience I was expecting. Is the ride / handling / steering and interior such a step up or are my miss judged expectations of uniqueness only to be found with the hugely expensive brands such as Ferrari.
I do not see any reason for more power, even my Golf or my wife's 997 you cannot drive with any real enthusiasm on the road as you are so quickly travelling faster than is reasonable to do on public roads. It was the sense of specialness that I think I was expecting and did not seem to find.
Have you tried a Boxster? I remember feeling rather disappointed changing from a 987.1S to a 997 4S at first. It wasn’t until I got into my 997.2 turbo that my smiles returned. I’ll return to a Boxster at some point as they feel so balanced and responsive, not to mention the glorious sound of the engine a few inches behind your head. I do not see any reason for more power, even my Golf or my wife's 997 you cannot drive with any real enthusiasm on the road as you are so quickly travelling faster than is reasonable to do on public roads. It was the sense of specialness that I think I was expecting and did not seem to find.
The 997 is fine and we expect to keep it, I was just expecting more from the newer car than it seemed to give. Maybe just my over expectations. Never been in a Boxster or a Cayman but I suspect they are where the value is in terms of the Porsche experience. Wanted to really enthuse over the 991 GTS but just does not seem to offer enough of a sense of occasion for the step up in value.
I had my OPC’s 991.2 GTS on demo whilst my 997.2 GTS was in being serviced....for me unless you’re daily driving it I prefer the 997..gearbox and steering are both superior, it’s got the naturally aspirated engine but the 991.2’s chassis is for me definitely more composed on a typical UK country/B road....also as a daily the PCM unit is a mile ahead of the 997.2. It’s not unheard of for people to go back to the 997 having sold one to get a 991. That said if you find 991.2 underwhelming try the GT3.....it’s anything but! Won’t notice the VW Group switchgear in that....
Porsche911R said:
I never see a 991 non GT car as a sports car, so I never expect much, they are just like big Golfs with sadly worse steering feel thean my Golf !
Badge buying cars imo.
I haven’t driven one, but that sounds harsh. Imo the 996/997 generation cars are sublime to drive, so is the 91 really a Golf/Audi etc like car? I find that hard to believe (not saying it is impossible btw)Badge buying cars imo.
Last time i drove a bmw i thought it was crap (steering, control weights, connection to the car/road), i assume it is not dissimilar to the Audi etc offerings
MDL111 said:
Last time i drove a bmw i thought it was crap (steering, control weights, connection to the car/road), i assume it is not dissimilar to the Audi etc offerings
I agree completely, owned a lot of BMW’s over the years including a couple of the earlier M3’s I owned from new. Tried an F80 M3 about three years ago before I bought my 997 GTS, the chassis was shocking and it sounded like a hairdryer. People moan about the 718’s engine but that M3 at idle was just terrible. MDL111 said:
I haven’t driven one, but that sounds harsh. Imo the 996/997 generation cars are sublime to drive, so is the 91 really a Golf/Audi etc like car? I find that hard to believe (not saying it is impossible btw)
Last time i drove a bmw i thought it was crap (steering, control weights, connection to the car/road), i assume it is not dissimilar to the Audi etc offerings
They do feel like big golfs imo but that’s saying something as I love my Clubsport golf, it,s an amazing car, only had 2 BMW a CSL and a v8 both engines were very special.Last time i drove a bmw i thought it was crap (steering, control weights, connection to the car/road), i assume it is not dissimilar to the Audi etc offerings
I would take a BMW M4 CS over a 991.2 car and put £30k in my pocket, the CS feels a special car. I had a S1 Audi , that was utter s
t, sold it in 2 months. I don’t drive or own normal cars, they just don’t do anything for me, all my cars have been ltd Ed or special models and 70% of the time the special models are more than the sum of their parts. Thing is most loan cars are PDK and that means dull, even the 997 GTS in PDK was a bit s
t imo, I loaned one for a day and did not buy it back in the day. Where as I spent 5 years driving 2x Cayman R's as they are fun. I do think the 997 feels a little bit special just not very special. I was expecting the 991 especially in GTS form to feel exceptional and wow me but whilst a step forward in pace it just did not give the feeling of specialness I was expecting. Maybe I need to experience a GT3 if that would make the difference although speed alone I do not think is enough. It is something I am finding hard to describe that is needed to make driving it more exceptional. Also whilst not very manly I do think a £100k car should have a more bespoke interior.
Maybe it needs to be back to the Renault 5 Turbo I had in 1986 at the age of 21 that always felt special, just not always in a good way.
Maybe it needs to be back to the Renault 5 Turbo I had in 1986 at the age of 21 that always felt special, just not always in a good way.
scarecrow1966 said:
I do think the 997 feels a little bit special just not very special. I was expecting the 991 especially in GTS form to feel exceptional and wow me but whilst a step forward in pace it just did not give the feeling of specialness I was expecting. Maybe I need to experience a GT3 if that would make the difference although speed alone I do not think is enough. It is something I am finding hard to describe that is needed to make driving it more exceptional. Also whilst not very manly I do think a £100k car should have a more bespoke interior.
Maybe it needs to be back to the Renault 5 Turbo I had in 1986 at the age of 21 that always felt special, just not always in a good way.
Try a manual 991.2 GT3 with buckets and cage. That feels special at all speeds and thus equipped hopefully the interior won’t feel too “VW parts bin”Maybe it needs to be back to the Renault 5 Turbo I had in 1986 at the age of 21 that always felt special, just not always in a good way.
scarecrow1966 said:
I do think the 997 feels a little bit special just not very special. I was expecting the 991 especially in GTS form to feel exceptional and wow me but whilst a step forward in pace it just did not give the feeling of specialness I was expecting. Maybe I need to experience a GT3 if that would make the difference although speed alone I do not think is enough. It is something I am finding hard to describe that is needed to make driving it more exceptional. Also whilst not very manly I do think a £100k car should have a more bespoke interior.
Maybe it needs to be back to the Renault 5 Turbo I had in 1986 at the age of 21 that always felt special, just not always in a good way.
I know what you mean hence the cars I buy are never the normal ones.Maybe it needs to be back to the Renault 5 Turbo I had in 1986 at the age of 21 that always felt special, just not always in a good way.
The thing is you can make a special 997.2 manual as it’s a good base to start from
As above a GT3 in Manual and CS is very special drive, the buckets, the pings from the cage, the stone hitting the arches, and then 9k revs via a titanium exhaust is a long long way from a turbo 991.2 GTS
I remember driving a pdk GTS while I had my GT4.
I came away thinking I'd be as well buying a Golf R and saving 50k.
Funnily enough I'm in a carrera T now, wanting the back seats. Granted it's no GT car, but the manual makes a huge difference imo. It takes a bit more effort to get the best from. The interior has a good vibe as well. Obviously there's the turbo/NA thing if that's an issue for you.
I think it's still possible to keep the the 991.2 more 911 like in this generic time.
T's will soon get to a price making them more attractive.
I came away thinking I'd be as well buying a Golf R and saving 50k.
Funnily enough I'm in a carrera T now, wanting the back seats. Granted it's no GT car, but the manual makes a huge difference imo. It takes a bit more effort to get the best from. The interior has a good vibe as well. Obviously there's the turbo/NA thing if that's an issue for you.
I think it's still possible to keep the the 991.2 more 911 like in this generic time.
T's will soon get to a price making them more attractive.
MDL111 said:
I haven’t driven one, but that sounds harsh. Imo the 996/997 generation cars are sublime to drive, so is the 91 really a Golf/Audi etc like car? I find that hard to believe (not saying it is impossible btw)
Last time i drove a bmw i thought it was crap (steering, control weights, connection to the car/road), i assume it is not dissimilar to the Audi etc offerings
Well fwiw I've driven a 991.1 gts and I'd most certainly love to find a golf that drove like that........Last time i drove a bmw i thought it was crap (steering, control weights, connection to the car/road), i assume it is not dissimilar to the Audi etc offerings
isaldiri said:
Well fwiw I've driven a 991.1 gts and I'd most certainly love to find a golf that drove like that........
Yeah agreed, this thread is a bit one sided with snobs at the moment.The 991.2 is a lot more ‘grown up’ than a 997, refined, call it what you will, and yes if you don’t want that sort of thing then a GT3 might be more your sort of thing, but the PDK GTS is pretty much the ultimate daily driver, nothing really bests it as an all rounder!
The interior is what you make it, maybe the one the op test drove was basic, did it even have the GTS interior packs etc, I came from a 981 GTS to the 991.2 and yes there are similarities, but also enough differences and specialness (if you spec it right) to feel different. It’s a very nice place to be, especially compared to a 997 IMO.
With a 911, spec is everything, and if you weren’t the one to spec it, you’re less likely to fall in love with it.
isaldiri said:
Well fwiw I've driven a 991.1 gts and I'd most certainly love to find a golf that drove like that........
Try a clubsport, it’s more fun to drive than a non GT 911 imo. Thing is people who want to spend £100k Ona car would not been seen dead in a fiesta.
Where I ran my fiesta for 2 years and could not give a s
t about snob value. The golf CS is a very special car to drive.
Thanks all for taking the time to give your opinions.
I think this illustrates to me what a hard time car manufacturers have producing cars that will have a broad appeal as we all seem to what different things. Personally, bucket seats, a roll cage and a manual gearbox would be very undesirable to me so each to their own.
I think the 997 will be staying with us as it seems to offer a good compromise and perhaps a good compromise is the best one can get.
Please do not think anyone that I was trying to be rude in comparing some aspects of Porsche to a Golf R. I have done a lot of miles in the Golf and it has been a good car. It goes back in a few weeks and a Volvo takes its place which will be very different and perhaps may encourage me to borrow my wife's 997 more often.
I would love to sample the roads sometime which allow a GT3 to rev out to 9000. I can only imagine what speed that equates to and none of the roads around me are that accommodating.
I think this illustrates to me what a hard time car manufacturers have producing cars that will have a broad appeal as we all seem to what different things. Personally, bucket seats, a roll cage and a manual gearbox would be very undesirable to me so each to their own.
I think the 997 will be staying with us as it seems to offer a good compromise and perhaps a good compromise is the best one can get.
Please do not think anyone that I was trying to be rude in comparing some aspects of Porsche to a Golf R. I have done a lot of miles in the Golf and it has been a good car. It goes back in a few weeks and a Volvo takes its place which will be very different and perhaps may encourage me to borrow my wife's 997 more often.
I would love to sample the roads sometime which allow a GT3 to rev out to 9000. I can only imagine what speed that equates to and none of the roads around me are that accommodating.
Auto cars review of 2017
Regardless of appearances, the Porsche 911 GTS has not won this contest to find our favourite car on sale. The GTS range can be thought of as a box of chocolates, full of different flavours, shapes and textures. A Targa here, a convertible there. A four-wheel-drive version lurking in the corner next to the PDK. You can pop as many in your mouth as you like but no combination will be as mouth-wateringly delicious as the simplest and best: this contest has been won by the base-spec GTS – the manual, rear-wheel-drive coupé on this page, and that alone.
For as long as the customer has had a selection of 911s to choose between (which is more than half a century now), less has almost always meant more. It is as if the moment you start to fiddle with the essential rightness of the original concept other than to add speed, some of that genius is lost and the car’s appeal is reduced.
The appeal of this GTS is the same as that of previous 911s to wear the badge, reborn on a new level of ability. But were it just a great driver’s car, it would have stood no chance of topping this list. As enthusiasts, we all want a car that will turn every great drive on a deserted country road into an unforgettable experience. But in our hearts, we also know that those drives constitute less than 1% of our time on the road; and if the car’s not working on the 99% of occasions when we’re not flinging it at the scenery, the role of the car in your life is reduced to that of a toy.
The GTS works 100% of the time. It looks fabulous with its blackened centre-lock wheels and Alcantara upholstery. It rides beautifully on standard sport springs and adaptive dampers. It’s quiet at a cruise and has superb all-round visibility, occasional rear seats, a surprisingly big boot and a new infotainment system that even has apps on it. In short, it slots beautifully into your life.
Then the road appears. And the GTS becomes this other car; one so quick that it can sit on the heels of a 570S, because in this environment, the McLaren’s extra pace is more than offset by the 911’s more compact dimensions. The car feels light because it is: 145kg lighter than a 911 Turbo, if you’re interested. The wheel moves gently in your hands, the gearlever shifts around the gate with military precision and the body control permits just enough movement to let the car breathe with the road, never so much as to allow the smallest degree of float.
Put simply, it comes down to one simple equation: the amount of enjoyment a car can provide is defined by how fun it is to drive, multiplied by the number of times it makes you feel inclined to drive it. On this score, the 911 GTS or, to be precise, this 911 GTS, stands supreme.
Words by Nic Cackett, Andrew Frankel, Matt Prior and Matt Saunders
I have a pretty lean spec’ed 18 plate GTS and I bloody love it.
I would not consider it as the very best sports car, this is a Boxster Spyder, in my opinion a 987.2, but it is very very good.
Of course if you prefer a 997 then good for you, plenty to go around.
Enjoy one and all.
Regardless of appearances, the Porsche 911 GTS has not won this contest to find our favourite car on sale. The GTS range can be thought of as a box of chocolates, full of different flavours, shapes and textures. A Targa here, a convertible there. A four-wheel-drive version lurking in the corner next to the PDK. You can pop as many in your mouth as you like but no combination will be as mouth-wateringly delicious as the simplest and best: this contest has been won by the base-spec GTS – the manual, rear-wheel-drive coupé on this page, and that alone.
For as long as the customer has had a selection of 911s to choose between (which is more than half a century now), less has almost always meant more. It is as if the moment you start to fiddle with the essential rightness of the original concept other than to add speed, some of that genius is lost and the car’s appeal is reduced.
The appeal of this GTS is the same as that of previous 911s to wear the badge, reborn on a new level of ability. But were it just a great driver’s car, it would have stood no chance of topping this list. As enthusiasts, we all want a car that will turn every great drive on a deserted country road into an unforgettable experience. But in our hearts, we also know that those drives constitute less than 1% of our time on the road; and if the car’s not working on the 99% of occasions when we’re not flinging it at the scenery, the role of the car in your life is reduced to that of a toy.
The GTS works 100% of the time. It looks fabulous with its blackened centre-lock wheels and Alcantara upholstery. It rides beautifully on standard sport springs and adaptive dampers. It’s quiet at a cruise and has superb all-round visibility, occasional rear seats, a surprisingly big boot and a new infotainment system that even has apps on it. In short, it slots beautifully into your life.
Then the road appears. And the GTS becomes this other car; one so quick that it can sit on the heels of a 570S, because in this environment, the McLaren’s extra pace is more than offset by the 911’s more compact dimensions. The car feels light because it is: 145kg lighter than a 911 Turbo, if you’re interested. The wheel moves gently in your hands, the gearlever shifts around the gate with military precision and the body control permits just enough movement to let the car breathe with the road, never so much as to allow the smallest degree of float.
Put simply, it comes down to one simple equation: the amount of enjoyment a car can provide is defined by how fun it is to drive, multiplied by the number of times it makes you feel inclined to drive it. On this score, the 911 GTS or, to be precise, this 911 GTS, stands supreme.
Words by Nic Cackett, Andrew Frankel, Matt Prior and Matt Saunders
I have a pretty lean spec’ed 18 plate GTS and I bloody love it.
I would not consider it as the very best sports car, this is a Boxster Spyder, in my opinion a 987.2, but it is very very good.
Of course if you prefer a 997 then good for you, plenty to go around.
Enjoy one and all.
scarecrow1966 said:
I would love to sample the roads sometime which allow a GT3 to rev out to 9000. I can only imagine what speed that equates to and none of the roads around me are that accommodating.
You don’t need to take a GT3 to 9k rpm all the time to appreciate it feels special at much lower speeds/less aggressive throttle openings. Great car to drive as often as you want with perhaps the odd track day here and there to really get to know it.I think you're right cmoose about the controls. We have a Golf R and in many ways its a great car but I think the steering in our Cayenne (previous model so not epas) steers better. In fact after we got the Cayenne I lost a little love for the Golf, its fast but is an inherent understeerer, no matter which of the buttons you press you can't loose that and there isn't a 911 I've driven that I would take the Golf over.
Its interesting though how much fun you can have in our old 986, this is a lovely 3.2S with only 27k on it so everything still works nicely. The control weights are so much nicer than a modern car, there are even some aspects of my 991 GT3 where I prefer the feel of the 986.
Just too much dumbing down of the experience over the last 20 years.
Fred
Its interesting though how much fun you can have in our old 986, this is a lovely 3.2S with only 27k on it so everything still works nicely. The control weights are so much nicer than a modern car, there are even some aspects of my 991 GT3 where I prefer the feel of the 986.
Just too much dumbing down of the experience over the last 20 years.
Fred
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