****hole client - advice? - (warning long post!)
Discussion
Hi,
As some of you know, I run a small company outside of my main job supporting small buisnesses and home users. All aspects from fixing desktop printers to full on server installations.
A few weekends ago I did a server installation for a client / mate of mine. I quoted a small amount to install and configure a server and install 5 PC's.
The install was a nightmare. The server arrived misconfigured to the point that I had to rebuild it, I spent literally all night getting everything up and running. The client left me there overnight.
In the morning the client arrived late (should have been there at 9am, arrived at 11.30), got me and my buisness partner moving round PC's and installing PDA's and other things that were not discussed, all this after I had spent all night fixing a server which was not actually my problem on a fixed charge for the 2 days.
Now he is sending us silly requests for work (can you clear down the list on VNC, can you import some more emails from here etc) and we are getting fed up.
He has not paid us yet and we invoiced him over 2 weeks ago. We think he is holding on so he can get us to do loads of silly little things for him. My buisness partner and I are so fed up now that we are happy to write the amount off and ditch him.
We are going to do the following -
Email him asking the status of the invoice and when payment is expected
If no satisfactory answer is given, withdraw all phone support (We are not charging him) and think about start procedures to get our money.
We know we made the mistake of now drawing out a full proposal of works beforehand. Can anyone suggest any better way to go ahead?
We do not need thsi client for references or further buisness so its not the end of the world if we ditch him.
As some of you know, I run a small company outside of my main job supporting small buisnesses and home users. All aspects from fixing desktop printers to full on server installations.
A few weekends ago I did a server installation for a client / mate of mine. I quoted a small amount to install and configure a server and install 5 PC's.
The install was a nightmare. The server arrived misconfigured to the point that I had to rebuild it, I spent literally all night getting everything up and running. The client left me there overnight.
In the morning the client arrived late (should have been there at 9am, arrived at 11.30), got me and my buisness partner moving round PC's and installing PDA's and other things that were not discussed, all this after I had spent all night fixing a server which was not actually my problem on a fixed charge for the 2 days.
Now he is sending us silly requests for work (can you clear down the list on VNC, can you import some more emails from here etc) and we are getting fed up.
He has not paid us yet and we invoiced him over 2 weeks ago. We think he is holding on so he can get us to do loads of silly little things for him. My buisness partner and I are so fed up now that we are happy to write the amount off and ditch him.
We are going to do the following -
Email him asking the status of the invoice and when payment is expected
If no satisfactory answer is given, withdraw all phone support (We are not charging him) and think about start procedures to get our money.
We know we made the mistake of now drawing out a full proposal of works beforehand. Can anyone suggest any better way to go ahead?
We do not need thsi client for references or further buisness so its not the end of the world if we ditch him.
Mate.
You are throwing away money.
What were your agreed payment terms? 30 days net? 7 days? What?
If he's not yet in contravention then you may yet get your money.
It wasn't the client's fault the server had to be rebuilt, was it? Shit happens....and you made good on your promise despite adversity - he should be a loyal customer after *that*! But it wasn't his fault, was it?
Why not "have a quiet word". What you need to do now is state to the guy that the extra work he is asking you to do is "outwith the scope of the currently agreed and funded project". Ask him if he'd like you to continue to help out and quote your hourly rate!
Chances are he'll be reasonable - and you'll get ten or fifteen hours work out of him at decent pay.
And you'll keep him as a customer.
You won't mind answering the phone and helping out so much once you know that the clock is ticking and the fees are mounting up...
Seperate the "scope" discussion from the Invoice Payment discussion (which you should also have - on another day) so it doesn't become heated.
Hope this helps. I've been there.
You are throwing away money.
What were your agreed payment terms? 30 days net? 7 days? What?
If he's not yet in contravention then you may yet get your money.
It wasn't the client's fault the server had to be rebuilt, was it? Shit happens....and you made good on your promise despite adversity - he should be a loyal customer after *that*! But it wasn't his fault, was it?
Why not "have a quiet word". What you need to do now is state to the guy that the extra work he is asking you to do is "outwith the scope of the currently agreed and funded project". Ask him if he'd like you to continue to help out and quote your hourly rate!
Chances are he'll be reasonable - and you'll get ten or fifteen hours work out of him at decent pay.
And you'll keep him as a customer.
You won't mind answering the phone and helping out so much once you know that the clock is ticking and the fees are mounting up...
Seperate the "scope" discussion from the Invoice Payment discussion (which you should also have - on another day) so it doesn't become heated.
Hope this helps. I've been there.
Some people will keep asking for stuff and if you keep obliging for free, not surprisingly they'll keep doing it. They assume that if you want extra money, you'll ask for it. So unless he's a Hitler type, I'm hopeful a quiet reminder that you've already given him £x free and what he now wants has to be extra, may be received OK.
gh0st said:
We think he is holding on so he can get us to do loads of silly little things for him. My buisness partner and I are so fed up now that we are happy to write the amount off and ditch him.
Ah yes, the people who are always coming back with silly things and are always one job behind in payment so you agree to do the silly little things in the hope that you'll get paid... Once I realise that's what they're up to I just blow them out. Not worth the hassle.
Funny, too, how their silly little things always blow up into great big nightmares...
Pigeon said:
We think he is holding on so he can get us to do loads of silly little things for him. My buisness partner and I are so fed up now that we are happy to write the amount off and ditch him.
Ah yes, the people who are always coming back with silly things and are always one job behind in payment so you agree to do the silly little things in the hope that you'll get paid... Once I realise that's what they're up to I just blow them out. Not worth the hassle.
Funny, too, how their silly little things always blow up into great big nightmares...
We were literally contracted to install 1 server and 5 new PC's. Now he actually emailed me asking if we could dial in to all the pc's and clear the cache list in VNC as well as importing his old emails from 5 years ago.... he also is asking us to do windows reg hacks to make stuff work that shouldnt. I dont do thinkgs that way
Sad as it is, may lose the money on this one. As you said sometimes it just isnt worth it.
I think you're jumping the gun here.
2 weeks is nothing in invoice terms. It can take some companies a couple of weeks to even get your invoice into their systems - it's not reasonable to expect payment within 2 weeks even from good payers in my experience.
As for the extra work - you're making the assumption that he's trying it on. Have you discussed it? If he's confident in your ability to do the work then that's a good thing.
All you need to do is say to him that you can do these things but that you need to agree a rate or that you'll include them this time but future work will be billed in a manner that is mutually agreeable.
Don't be too hasty.
2 weeks is nothing in invoice terms. It can take some companies a couple of weeks to even get your invoice into their systems - it's not reasonable to expect payment within 2 weeks even from good payers in my experience.
As for the extra work - you're making the assumption that he's trying it on. Have you discussed it? If he's confident in your ability to do the work then that's a good thing.
All you need to do is say to him that you can do these things but that you need to agree a rate or that you'll include them this time but future work will be billed in a manner that is mutually agreeable.
Don't be too hasty.
PetrolTed said:
I think you're jumping the gun here.
2 weeks is nothing in invoice terms. It can take some companies a couple of weeks to even get your invoice into their systems - it's not reasonable to expect payment within 2 weeks even from good payers in my experience.
As for the extra work - you're making the assumption that he's trying it on. Have you discussed it? If he's confident in your ability to do the work then that's a good thing.
All you need to do is say to him that you can do these things but that you need to agree a rate or that you'll include them this time but future work will be billed in a manner that is mutually agreeable.
Don't be too hasty.
PetrolTed said:
I think you're jumping the gun here.
2 weeks is nothing in invoice terms. It can take some companies a couple of weeks to even get your invoice into their systems - it's not reasonable to expect payment within 2 weeks even from good payers in my experience.
As for the extra work - you're making the assumption that he's trying it on. Have you discussed it? If he's confident in your ability to do the work then that's a good thing.
All you need to do is say to him that you can do these things but that you need to agree a rate or that you'll include them this time but future work will be billed in a manner that is mutually agreeable.
Don't be too hasty.
Good points ted. We are sure that he is holding the invoice as he signs the cheques himself (he is MD - veryh small company) and he simply goes quiet if we mention payment for any other work.
Its a shame as this guy *was* a mate of mine as well and unfortunatly I know how he works - though i never thought he would try it on with me. In the past he has paid within a day of asking.
We have sent him a proposal for the work stating an invoiceable rate and once again he has gone quiet so I think now he realises he cannot take the piss anymore, he might stop using us anyway.
A problem I have had in the past is that if you do extra stuff as a favour the customer then thinks this is the norm.
I would go and see him, explain there has been a breakdown in communication (after all he may really think you should be doing all this work as part of the contract). I would also point out that you have taken a hit on the server work and are unwilling to lose out.
I had a massive ding dong with a former client over some cash we have been owed for over a year, once he understood my point of view he backed down and agreed terms. There is nothing better than a face to face meeting to sort things like this as
a) written communication can be misread
b) you can smack someone in the mouth if you are there
Obvisouly make sure you get anything discussed in writing later (unless it is a smack in the gob)
D
I would go and see him, explain there has been a breakdown in communication (after all he may really think you should be doing all this work as part of the contract). I would also point out that you have taken a hit on the server work and are unwilling to lose out.
I had a massive ding dong with a former client over some cash we have been owed for over a year, once he understood my point of view he backed down and agreed terms. There is nothing better than a face to face meeting to sort things like this as
a) written communication can be misread
b) you can smack someone in the mouth if you are there
Obvisouly make sure you get anything discussed in writing later (unless it is a smack in the gob)
D
Just to add, as much as he is a friend, this is a business transaction and is being dealt with as such. Perhaps he wants the typical 30 days to pay, or maybe he is suffering a bit on the cashflow front.
Don't necessarily write him off as a bad debt or a chancer - if anything, he could be a useful tool for future work, as a reference for you to pass on.
Have a heart to heart with him about the extras he's looking done, an explain they are chargable, not freebies. That was already done under the Server install.
You could tell him had you known the state of the server prior to doing the install, the price quoted would've been different due to the amount of work you had to do to get it sorted. You didn't come looking for mmore for that as you did it purely as a goodwill gesture.
Be direct and ask him if he's satisfied with the work you have done, but don't be confrontational, and equally, don't be soft/weak.
Remind him of the fact your suppposed to be friends!
If you start getting the run around, then it's obvious your friendship means diddly and/or he can't afford to pay the price other's have maybe quoted, so is using you. At this point, chalk it up to experience and you'll be the better for it with future contracts.
Good luck getting it resolved amicably.
Don't necessarily write him off as a bad debt or a chancer - if anything, he could be a useful tool for future work, as a reference for you to pass on.
Have a heart to heart with him about the extras he's looking done, an explain they are chargable, not freebies. That was already done under the Server install.
You could tell him had you known the state of the server prior to doing the install, the price quoted would've been different due to the amount of work you had to do to get it sorted. You didn't come looking for mmore for that as you did it purely as a goodwill gesture.
Be direct and ask him if he's satisfied with the work you have done, but don't be confrontational, and equally, don't be soft/weak.
Remind him of the fact your suppposed to be friends!
If you start getting the run around, then it's obvious your friendship means diddly and/or he can't afford to pay the price other's have maybe quoted, so is using you. At this point, chalk it up to experience and you'll be the better for it with future contracts.
Good luck getting it resolved amicably.
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