Advice re firing accountant and access to HMRC Portal
Discussion
Hi all, I'm hoping for a bit of informal legal advice with the following situation:
My English private limited personal service company (100% owned by me, me as sole director) was set up by and had the accounts managed by a CIMA registered accounting firm since its incorporation 5 years ago.
Due to a string of errors over that time, I decided to fire them and take over the bookkeeping myself (I'm a Chartered Accountant).
Unfortunately, I left this to the last minute and only did it days before my accounts filing deadline, not realising that my accountants would withhold access to my company's government gateway account until I had paid them the full 3 month's notice period's fees in advance.
I took a very dim view of this, as it strikes me as my accountant holding my company's access codes to the required portals to ransom.
My fees (excluding the notice fees in advance) were paid up to date for the entire financial year for which the filing was required as well as up to date for the current period.
My engagement letter is silent on how and when log in details and access codes will be provided - the only section that is even close to relevant is this:
I did not set up the online accounts nor have I provided my accountants with any log in details or passwords for them, therefore my reading of that is that the access codes are not covered by that clause and the accountant could not lawfully withhold them pending a demand for payment.
The accountant claims that it is "standard practice" for accountancy firms to do this. I countered that the term "standard practice" is meaningless in the terms of our contractural relationship.
So, where do I stand with this - can they withhold those details until I pay the notice period in advance, or have they acted unlawfully (or at least unethically)?
Any help gratefully received.
My English private limited personal service company (100% owned by me, me as sole director) was set up by and had the accounts managed by a CIMA registered accounting firm since its incorporation 5 years ago.
Due to a string of errors over that time, I decided to fire them and take over the bookkeeping myself (I'm a Chartered Accountant).
Unfortunately, I left this to the last minute and only did it days before my accounts filing deadline, not realising that my accountants would withhold access to my company's government gateway account until I had paid them the full 3 month's notice period's fees in advance.
I took a very dim view of this, as it strikes me as my accountant holding my company's access codes to the required portals to ransom.
My fees (excluding the notice fees in advance) were paid up to date for the entire financial year for which the filing was required as well as up to date for the current period.
My engagement letter is silent on how and when log in details and access codes will be provided - the only section that is even close to relevant is this:
Engagement Letter said:
11. Termination
11.1 You or we may terminate our engagement by giving 3 months’ written notice. All documents and information provided by you will be returned to you within 10 working days of receipt of the notice provided that all outstanding fees have been paid.
Note it states all documents and information provided by you (i.e. provided to the accountant by me). 11.1 You or we may terminate our engagement by giving 3 months’ written notice. All documents and information provided by you will be returned to you within 10 working days of receipt of the notice provided that all outstanding fees have been paid.
I did not set up the online accounts nor have I provided my accountants with any log in details or passwords for them, therefore my reading of that is that the access codes are not covered by that clause and the accountant could not lawfully withhold them pending a demand for payment.
The accountant claims that it is "standard practice" for accountancy firms to do this. I countered that the term "standard practice" is meaningless in the terms of our contractural relationship.
So, where do I stand with this - can they withhold those details until I pay the notice period in advance, or have they acted unlawfully (or at least unethically)?
Any help gratefully received.
Apply to HMRC and Companies House for new access codes.
Make sure they send the new codes to your address and not the accountants.
Unfortunately, you may have to bite the bullet regarding missing filing deadlines because you did leave it a bit late to enact matters but both HMRC and Copmpanies House will send out new codes in a matter of days and weeks rather than months - so any penalties will be mitigated.
Where is the Registered Office at the moment?
What address is HMRC using for
PAYE?
Corporation Tax?
VAT ?
(they may have different addresses for each of these taxes)
Make sure they send the new codes to your address and not the accountants.
Unfortunately, you may have to bite the bullet regarding missing filing deadlines because you did leave it a bit late to enact matters but both HMRC and Copmpanies House will send out new codes in a matter of days and weeks rather than months - so any penalties will be mitigated.
Where is the Registered Office at the moment?
What address is HMRC using for
PAYE?
Corporation Tax?
VAT ?
(they may have different addresses for each of these taxes)
Eric Mc said:
Apply to HMRC and Companies House for new access codes.
Make sure they send the new codes to your address and not the accountants.
Unfortunately, you may have to bite the bullet regarding missing filing deadlines because you did leave it a bit late to enact matters but both HMRC and Copmpanies House will send out new codes in a matter of days and weeks rather than months - so any penalties will be mitigated.
Where is the Registered Office at the moment?
What address is HMRC using for
PAYE?
Corporation Tax?
VAT ?
(they may have different addresses for each of these taxes)
Thanks Eric, the filing is all under control - I've calculated the corporation tax payable and paid it today (on the deadline) and I've asked for an extension to the filing deadline for my accounts from Companies House, setting out the circumstances. Even if they deny the request, the deadline is only £150 if within a reasonable period (I hope to file next week).Make sure they send the new codes to your address and not the accountants.
Unfortunately, you may have to bite the bullet regarding missing filing deadlines because you did leave it a bit late to enact matters but both HMRC and Copmpanies House will send out new codes in a matter of days and weeks rather than months - so any penalties will be mitigated.
Where is the Registered Office at the moment?
What address is HMRC using for
PAYE?
Corporation Tax?
VAT ?
(they may have different addresses for each of these taxes)
The company is also set up for PAYE and VAT, but I have access to these schemes on the HMRC portal now and have requested access codes for CT and Companies House to the correct address.
So, I hope that the actual accounting and tax side is under control.
What I'd like to know now is whether my accountant's have acted lawfully/ethically in pushing me into this situation? It's certainly not something I would ever do with any of my clients.
youngsyr said:
Thanks Eric, the filing is all under control - I've calculated the corporation tax payable and paid it today (on the deadline) and I've asked for an extension to the filing deadline for my accounts from Companies House, setting out the circumstances. Even if they deny the request, the deadline is only £150 if within a reasonable period (I hope to file next week).
The company is also set up for PAYE and VAT, but I have access to these schemes on the HMRC portal now and have requested access codes for CT and Companies House to the correct address.
So, I hope that the actual accounting and tax side is under control.
What I'd like to know now is whether my accountant's have acted lawfully/ethically in pushing me into this situation? It's certainly not something I would ever do with any of my clients.
Professional bodies usually require that an accountant hand over relevant data to a succeeding accountant (or the client) without undue delay. These guys appear to have slotted a three month time period in their letter of engagement which you no doubt signed. So, in theory, they could claim that you agreed to the terms and conditions of the agreement. However, I don't think they would have a leg to stand on if you threatened to report them to their governing body.The company is also set up for PAYE and VAT, but I have access to these schemes on the HMRC portal now and have requested access codes for CT and Companies House to the correct address.
So, I hope that the actual accounting and tax side is under control.
What I'd like to know now is whether my accountant's have acted lawfully/ethically in pushing me into this situation? It's certainly not something I would ever do with any of my clients.
Eric Mc said:
youngsyr said:
Thanks Eric, the filing is all under control - I've calculated the corporation tax payable and paid it today (on the deadline) and I've asked for an extension to the filing deadline for my accounts from Companies House, setting out the circumstances. Even if they deny the request, the deadline is only £150 if within a reasonable period (I hope to file next week).
The company is also set up for PAYE and VAT, but I have access to these schemes on the HMRC portal now and have requested access codes for CT and Companies House to the correct address.
So, I hope that the actual accounting and tax side is under control.
What I'd like to know now is whether my accountant's have acted lawfully/ethically in pushing me into this situation? It's certainly not something I would ever do with any of my clients.
Professional bodies usually require that an accountant hand over relevant data to a succeeding accountant (or the client) without undue delay. These guys appear to have slotted a three month time period in their letter of engagement which you no doubt signed. So, in theory, they could claim that you agreed to the terms and conditions of the agreement. However, I don't think they would have a leg to stand on if you threatened to report them to their governing body.The company is also set up for PAYE and VAT, but I have access to these schemes on the HMRC portal now and have requested access codes for CT and Companies House to the correct address.
So, I hope that the actual accounting and tax side is under control.
What I'd like to know now is whether my accountant's have acted lawfully/ethically in pushing me into this situation? It's certainly not something I would ever do with any of my clients.
I guess I'll report them and see what CIMA says.
Thanks for your help.
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