Friends who are gone
Discussion
I notice lots of people on bike forums have lost friends to crashes in the past. Personally I haven't, but both a friend of mine and I have had very lucky crashes, with no other vehicles involved. And we're both still here.
I also notice when out riding and going to meets, that there are a significant number of riders who treat the road as their personal race track. But when they talk about their mates who are now gone, it's as if they never did a thing wrong. It's like when you hear from scrotes' parent in the news, little Timmy is an angel, even though he's vanadalising half the neighbourhood...
So a question for ye.
For those friends that have died in a motorcycle accident, being 100% honest, were they riding like an idiot? Or was it totally not their fault.
P.S. I'm not judging, I had a totally 'at fault' crash, I was just really lucky it was off the road into dirt and not oncoming traffic.
I also notice when out riding and going to meets, that there are a significant number of riders who treat the road as their personal race track. But when they talk about their mates who are now gone, it's as if they never did a thing wrong. It's like when you hear from scrotes' parent in the news, little Timmy is an angel, even though he's vanadalising half the neighbourhood...
So a question for ye.
For those friends that have died in a motorcycle accident, being 100% honest, were they riding like an idiot? Or was it totally not their fault.
P.S. I'm not judging, I had a totally 'at fault' crash, I was just really lucky it was off the road into dirt and not oncoming traffic.
Lost 2 school friends and my cousin to bike accidents before I was 20 years old. All of them avoidable. They were their own fault, not necessarily riding like idiots, none were high speed, just inexperience putting them in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its easy enough to die at 30-50mph if you hit something,r regardless of what you are wearing 
In recent years I witnessed a guy kill himself in front of me on a bike whilst abroad on holiday. Had been chatting with him the night before in a bar hence recognised the bike as he overtook us the next morning. The road was bumpy and full of ruts, so we had slowed down to 60-70mph. He chose to overtake us and hit a rut in the road, got a slapper on and bike went down. He died on impact as he hit the central metal barrier at about 90mph. Very sad, but completely avoidable. Complacency kills, just because you got away with it a dozen times before does not mean the unexpected wont happen next time....
In recent years I witnessed a guy kill himself in front of me on a bike whilst abroad on holiday. Had been chatting with him the night before in a bar hence recognised the bike as he overtook us the next morning. The road was bumpy and full of ruts, so we had slowed down to 60-70mph. He chose to overtake us and hit a rut in the road, got a slapper on and bike went down. He died on impact as he hit the central metal barrier at about 90mph. Very sad, but completely avoidable. Complacency kills, just because you got away with it a dozen times before does not mean the unexpected wont happen next time....
I think it's very rarely 100% "not their fault" as there is usually something that they could have done differently given a second chance, doesn't mean that 90% of the blame couldn't be levelled at some one else. It's cliched, I know, but the old, "Accidents don't just happen, they are caused" still rings true. Plus, we all have different perceptions as to responsibility. I died in a bike accident many moons back that I consider to be 100% my fault, maybe I shouldn't have had that eighth pint. On the other hand, if one of my mates had taken my keys from me rather than encouraging me... Learned a lesson from it tho'.
When I was a young un at least two of my mates died from what could only be described as extremely t
ttish riding, at the time we all hated the car drivers involved, but in all truth if they hadn't hit those cars they'd have probably hit something else... A few hit unlit road hazards, one ran into an unlit skip, one an illegally parked coach and the other a broken down artic' - their fault? Or, had they been riding more slowly, not had a pint, been more awake etc...
Nowadays, out of the half dozen biker's funerals I've attended recently, five have been cancer related and one hanged himself, so I don't reckon any of us are getting out of here alive.
When I was a young un at least two of my mates died from what could only be described as extremely t
ttish riding, at the time we all hated the car drivers involved, but in all truth if they hadn't hit those cars they'd have probably hit something else... A few hit unlit road hazards, one ran into an unlit skip, one an illegally parked coach and the other a broken down artic' - their fault? Or, had they been riding more slowly, not had a pint, been more awake etc...Nowadays, out of the half dozen biker's funerals I've attended recently, five have been cancer related and one hanged himself, so I don't reckon any of us are getting out of here alive.
underwhelmist said:
I’ve only lost one friend to a bike accident, and it was on track. Seems like you’re trying to be more controversial than is strictly necessary.
I'm not 'trying' to be anything. Just asking for honest answers.I was just curious as to why I tend to see people riding incredibly fast on the road, and then friends/family always tend to blame the thing they hit.
Thanks for the honesty guys, those are some rough stories.
Bob_Defly said:
I'm not 'trying' to be anything. Just asking for honest answers.
I was just curious as to why I tend to see people riding incredibly fast on the road, and then friends/family always tend to blame the thing they hit.
Thanks for the honesty guys, those are some rough stories.
I worked with a Guy over 20 years ago that first had an RGV 250 that he smashed up then bought a ZXR 400 when they first came out. I was just curious as to why I tend to see people riding incredibly fast on the road, and then friends/family always tend to blame the thing they hit.
Thanks for the honesty guys, those are some rough stories.
His Uncle was over from the US and he took him out for a pillion ride.
The bike hit the back of a single decker bus at BIG speed and killed the rider (the guy i worked with) instantly and his uncle was thrown through the bus rear window is the story.
The uncle survived fortunately but without question the guy i knew rode like a lunatic.
I remember we had a minutes silence for him at work but if i'm honest him and a bike was a dangerous combination.
He was in his mid 20's........
Edited by FocusRS3 on Monday 11th March 15:54
Yes, have lost at least 5 people I knew to bike smashes.
The first guy was a school class mate and was on the Epping New rd, which has always been a dangerous stretch of rd. I think he was on a Honda 550-4, this was in the late 70s.
The next guy lost control whilst wheelying an an air cooled RD.
He seemed ok and got into the ambulance himself, but they didn't spot that he had internal bleeding and he sadly died a short time later.
The next one was also on the Epping New rd. I was out one summers eve in 1980, on my Terry Becket H1F 500 and as I turned to go left onto the New Rd, I saw that the road was blocked by an accident. The guy had been a couple of years below me at school. Think he was on a 200 Suzuki Invader.
The next guy was on his Yamaha DT trail in early 1982. The circumstances of his death were never fully known, but it seems that either late one night or in the early hours of the following day, he went out and was riding along a section of the M.25 near Waltham Abbey which was still under construction. He hit some earthworks and was thrown off. He was found dead by some road workers. Can remember his funeral like yesterday, myself and another pal went in my yellow 3 Litre Capri.
Another guy was killed on the Nth Circ on his RD400.
Another guy rode off on his S1C 250 Kawa triple, with the side stand down. He only got a short distance up the rd and was thrown off into a letter box. The whole thing was seen by another mutual pal.
The last was in early 2007. A pal I had known for years, but had lost touch with, was on his new to him R6 one Sunday a noon, coming back from a bikers tea hut. I only recently found out that a car had pulled out on him and he was thrown into one of those grey sign post poles. I think his helmet came off. He sadly died at the road side about 30 mins later.
The first guy was a school class mate and was on the Epping New rd, which has always been a dangerous stretch of rd. I think he was on a Honda 550-4, this was in the late 70s.
The next guy lost control whilst wheelying an an air cooled RD.
He seemed ok and got into the ambulance himself, but they didn't spot that he had internal bleeding and he sadly died a short time later.
The next one was also on the Epping New rd. I was out one summers eve in 1980, on my Terry Becket H1F 500 and as I turned to go left onto the New Rd, I saw that the road was blocked by an accident. The guy had been a couple of years below me at school. Think he was on a 200 Suzuki Invader.
The next guy was on his Yamaha DT trail in early 1982. The circumstances of his death were never fully known, but it seems that either late one night or in the early hours of the following day, he went out and was riding along a section of the M.25 near Waltham Abbey which was still under construction. He hit some earthworks and was thrown off. He was found dead by some road workers. Can remember his funeral like yesterday, myself and another pal went in my yellow 3 Litre Capri.
Another guy was killed on the Nth Circ on his RD400.
Another guy rode off on his S1C 250 Kawa triple, with the side stand down. He only got a short distance up the rd and was thrown off into a letter box. The whole thing was seen by another mutual pal.
The last was in early 2007. A pal I had known for years, but had lost touch with, was on his new to him R6 one Sunday a noon, coming back from a bikers tea hut. I only recently found out that a car had pulled out on him and he was thrown into one of those grey sign post poles. I think his helmet came off. He sadly died at the road side about 30 mins later.
Bob_Defly said:
I'm not 'trying' to be anything. Just asking for honest answers.
I was just curious as to why I tend to see people riding incredibly fast on the road, and then friends/family always tend to blame the thing they hit.
Fair enough. I was just curious as to why I tend to see people riding incredibly fast on the road, and then friends/family always tend to blame the thing they hit.
My mate ran off the track on to grass, came off, slid back on to track and was hit by another bike as I understand it - I wasn’t there. Freak accident but in 99/100 cases he would have just been picking grass out of his fairings before the next session.
There have been a couple of crashes round here where it’s hard to understand how they crashed (no other vehicles involved), on one a straight DC (Fireblade), one on a roundabout at the top of a NSL bypass (cruiser of some sort). I guess speed was a factor in both, certainly failure to lose enough speed before the roundabout in the second case. Although you could say the real problem was failure to look and plan ahead enough. In those cases then yeah I think their riding was at least partly to blame but it’s not really the done thing to point it out, you know?
neutral 3 said:
Another guy rode off on his S1C 250 Kawa triple, with the side stand down. He only got a short distance up the rd and was thrown off into a letter box. The whole thing was seen by another mutual pal.
Late 79 I bought a blue S1C (it was immaculate) which had a KH250 front end on it from someone who worked in the Kawasaki dealership in Savoy Parade in Enfield, couple of months later the police turned up to check it was roadworthy because unbeknown to me it had previously been wrote off, hence the KH250 front end and not as an upgrade from the drum brake as my thoughts were up to that point. JMF141NEdited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th March 10:10
underwhelmist said:
... their riding was at least partly to blame but it’s not really the done thing to point it out, you know?
It does seem bit crass to mention it after they died, but sometimes maybe we should gently point out to people that ride like idiots that they could do better.A guy I worked with commuted to work by bike (as do i)
Every morning he would be saying about the near misses, idiot drivers not looking, people on phones etc. that had occurred to him on the ride in. Whereas I very rarely have a near miss. I couldn't understand why all the blind dozy drivers were on his route in and none on mine.
Then one summer we went for a ride over the moors and along the coast road together. He was a good rider, better than me in most respects. Definitely faster and just looked like he was more in control around the corners and stuff as i tried to follow him. This seemed to change however once we came across any traffic. Overtaking on blind corners, cutting in front of drivers, overtaking across junctions, not stopping or giving way at junctions, lane splitting on narrow two-way roads... he basically treated cars and other road users like they didn't exist.
Never went out with him again as it was just embarrassing.
He changed jobs and I never saw him again, but heard a few years later that he'd had a head-on collision overtaking on the brow of a hill.
bose7en yes I have a mate from work, not like this, but his riding buddies are. They even have plates you can flip up so the cops can't get their numbers. He keeps inviting me to go riding with them, but that's literally the last group of people I want to ride with. I just don't understand it.
underwhelmist said:
Fair enough.
My mate ran off the track on to grass, came off, slid back on to track and was hit by another bike as I understand it - I wasn’t there. Freak accident but in 99/100 cases he would have just been picking grass out of his fairings before the next session.
There have been a couple of crashes round here where it’s hard to understand how they crashed (no other vehicles involved), on one a straight DC (Fireblade), one on a roundabout at the top of a NSL bypass (cruiser of some sort). I guess speed was a factor in both, certainly failure to lose enough speed before the roundabout in the second case. Although you could say the real problem was failure to look and plan ahead enough. In those cases then yeah I think their riding was at least partly to blame but it’s not really the done thing to point it out, you know?
After my crash, I really thought about just doing track days, or mainly doing track days, then I heard about people dying on those too. I thought they'd be 99% safe what with the amount of run off etc.My mate ran off the track on to grass, came off, slid back on to track and was hit by another bike as I understand it - I wasn’t there. Freak accident but in 99/100 cases he would have just been picking grass out of his fairings before the next session.
There have been a couple of crashes round here where it’s hard to understand how they crashed (no other vehicles involved), on one a straight DC (Fireblade), one on a roundabout at the top of a NSL bypass (cruiser of some sort). I guess speed was a factor in both, certainly failure to lose enough speed before the roundabout in the second case. Although you could say the real problem was failure to look and plan ahead enough. In those cases then yeah I think their riding was at least partly to blame but it’s not really the done thing to point it out, you know?
Raygun said:
Late 79 I bought a blue S1C (it was immaculate) which had a KH250 front end on it from someone who worked in the Kawasaki dealership in Savoy Parade in Enfield, couple of months later the police turned up to check it was roadworthy because unbeknown to me it had previously been wrote off, hence the KH250 front end and not as an upgrade from the drum brake as my thoughts were up to that point. JMF141N
I knew Enfield Kawasaki well, went there on my H1F and my Z900. Edited by Raygun on Tuesday 12th March 10:10
The guy i knew, had a blue S1C and i am sure it was N reg. This would have been 1978 or early 79.
I dont know what happened to his bike, but i bought, repaired and sold many damaged bikes back then, from a bike salvage guy i knew. Some were heavily damaged, but had ( as far as i know ) had come to him, via the ins co. But its highly possible that he was buying them direct from the deseaseds family.
Most S1Cs were N registered.
Bob_Defly said:
I thought they'd be 99% safe what with the amount of run off etc.
Well yeah, I think generally riding on track is much safer than riding on the road due to the lack of oncoming traffic and hard things to hit, generous run off etc. AFAIK serious accidents at trackdays are EXTREMELY rare so don't let me put you off, go for it and have fun.neutral 3 said:
Raygun said:
Late 79 I bought a blue S1C (it was immaculate) which had a KH250 front end on it from someone who worked in the Kawasaki dealership in Savoy Parade in Enfield, couple of months later the police turned up to check it was roadworthy because unbeknown to me it had previously been wrote off, hence the KH250 front end and not as an upgrade from the drum brake as my thoughts were up to that point. JMF141N
I knew Enfield Kawasaki well, went there on my H1F and my Z900. Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 12th March 10:10
The guy i knew, had a blue S1C and i am sure it was N reg. This would have been 1978 or early 79.
I dont know what happened to his bike, but i bought, repaired and sold many damaged bikes back then, from a bike salvage guy i knew. Some were heavily damaged, but had ( as far as i know ) had come to him, via the ins co. But its highly possible that he was buying them direct from the deseaseds family.
Most S1Cs were N registered.
I know two people who have been killed on their bikes. One was totally their fault - single vehicle accident, went far too fast into a corner just down the road from my house, touched the outside curb and came off into a lamp post.
The second one was not at fault in the slightest. He was riding (with others behind him) down an A road towards a junction that cars were waiting to turn across the road at and a car approached the line of cars with the driver on his mobile phone, didn't see the line of cars until too late. When he realised he couldn't avoid a collision he swerved onto the other side of the road and hit the lad on his bike head on as he rode past the junction.
Driver was jailed for 18 months.
The second one was not at fault in the slightest. He was riding (with others behind him) down an A road towards a junction that cars were waiting to turn across the road at and a car approached the line of cars with the driver on his mobile phone, didn't see the line of cars until too late. When he realised he couldn't avoid a collision he swerved onto the other side of the road and hit the lad on his bike head on as he rode past the junction.
Driver was jailed for 18 months.
neutral 3 said:
The next guy was on his Yamaha DT trail in early 1982. The circumstances of his death were never fully known, but it seems that either late one night or in the early hours of the following day, he went out and was riding along a section of the M.25 near Waltham Abbey which was still under construction. He hit some earthworks and was thrown off. He was found dead by some road workers.
I think I heard about this or something very like it from a police accident investigator, I was told the rider broke his neck in the accident, but died several hours later from exposure.
Several years ago I was invited to go riding with a group of riders one evening, never again...wheelies, max speed on motorway, crazy overtaking manouvers, I survived the night but every time I was asked I was busy washing my hair.
Last i heard one of them at the Leatherhead junction on a new bike at high speed, braked heavily the bike lurched left and hit the central reservation and he hit the Motorway sign post and did not make it.
I think we can all recall at least one time when it could have gone all so wrong.
Last i heard one of them at the Leatherhead junction on a new bike at high speed, braked heavily the bike lurched left and hit the central reservation and he hit the Motorway sign post and did not make it.
I think we can all recall at least one time when it could have gone all so wrong.
One good mate who survived with a fractured skull when a van pulled out in to a "gap" that he was occupying between 2 cars in 40mph traffic. As far as I'm aware no fault of his, the police and van driver agreed, but the insurance company tried to contest it.
2 acquaintances who were killed but I don't know all the details.
One did tend to ride like a bit of a loon, T-boned a van that turned across him. Van driver pleaded guilty to causing death by dangerous driving and got 12-month community order, 180 hours of unpaid work and was disqualified from driving for a year. Seems fairly lenient to me so suggest maybe the court felt the biker was partly to blame?
The other had been out for a ride on his quick bike and commented on a forum that he wasn't really feeling it so had gone for a ride on his slower bike later and never came back.
However in my list of dead friends Cancer is still beating bikes 3 to 2.
2 acquaintances who were killed but I don't know all the details.
One did tend to ride like a bit of a loon, T-boned a van that turned across him. Van driver pleaded guilty to causing death by dangerous driving and got 12-month community order, 180 hours of unpaid work and was disqualified from driving for a year. Seems fairly lenient to me so suggest maybe the court felt the biker was partly to blame?
The other had been out for a ride on his quick bike and commented on a forum that he wasn't really feeling it so had gone for a ride on his slower bike later and never came back.
However in my list of dead friends Cancer is still beating bikes 3 to 2.
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