Blood thinning effect of alcohol
Discussion
Hi
Seeing a GP in a few weeks but thought I'd ask on here. Without going into huge detail I am on lifelong blood thinners due to a fairly rare blood clotting issue and a year ago consultant changed me from clexane 0.8 daily injections to 2.5 apixaban twice daily. The apixaban is a much lower dose of thinner which I knew about.
Anyhow all fine till january. I've noticed that since doing dry January and (mostly) dry February my post thrombotic symptoms have got a lot worse with a hot foot, increases vein prominence, blue patches, and pain etc. I think my 35 unit average per week consumption was helping thin my blood. As an experiment I drank 100ml of rum Wednesday night and 50ml last night and the symptoms have pretty immediately improved and largely back to normal (for me).
I've always maintained even before I was on thinners than alcohol was self medication and I'm even more convinced now!
Does this sound like total b
ks or plausible?
Thanks
Mike
Seeing a GP in a few weeks but thought I'd ask on here. Without going into huge detail I am on lifelong blood thinners due to a fairly rare blood clotting issue and a year ago consultant changed me from clexane 0.8 daily injections to 2.5 apixaban twice daily. The apixaban is a much lower dose of thinner which I knew about.
Anyhow all fine till january. I've noticed that since doing dry January and (mostly) dry February my post thrombotic symptoms have got a lot worse with a hot foot, increases vein prominence, blue patches, and pain etc. I think my 35 unit average per week consumption was helping thin my blood. As an experiment I drank 100ml of rum Wednesday night and 50ml last night and the symptoms have pretty immediately improved and largely back to normal (for me).
I've always maintained even before I was on thinners than alcohol was self medication and I'm even more convinced now!
Does this sound like total b
ks or plausible?Thanks
Mike
Edited by bmwmike on Friday 15th March 20:47
As someone that will be on warfarin for life, (and also likes a drink), I 100% recommend getting hold of a Coaguchek :
http://www.coaguchek.co.uk/coaguchek_patient/landi...
They allow you the means to test quickly your INR and I get test strips on the NHS.
I had to buy the machine, but they do offer 6 months zero % finaance and I think it was only £350-400 anyways.
For me, I now opnly have to attend the clinic once or twice a year and just occasionally check my results whenever I feel the need.
Beer certainly does have a fairly fast effect on INR btw.....
http://www.coaguchek.co.uk/coaguchek_patient/landi...
They allow you the means to test quickly your INR and I get test strips on the NHS.
I had to buy the machine, but they do offer 6 months zero % finaance and I think it was only £350-400 anyways.
For me, I now opnly have to attend the clinic once or twice a year and just occasionally check my results whenever I feel the need.
Beer certainly does have a fairly fast effect on INR btw.....
Thanks, interesting. As I understand it apixaban is not detectable in the same way as warfarin. I went on warfarin in my late teens and was too bad a patient for it to work properly - inr used to be up and down like a yo yo. Sounds like that machine would have helped a lot! Glad it's working for you.
Yes this is correct - the only anticoagulant that can be measured is Warfarin using the INR.
This is effectively a ratio of clotting vs time - 1 is normal and 2 is takes twice as long.
All of the other NOAC drugs apixaban and rivaroxaban are not measured.
Effectively we take the drug companies word for it that they work based on previous data from drug tests.
If you clot on a NOAC first step is to start Warfarin.
This is effectively a ratio of clotting vs time - 1 is normal and 2 is takes twice as long.
All of the other NOAC drugs apixaban and rivaroxaban are not measured.
Effectively we take the drug companies word for it that they work based on previous data from drug tests.
If you clot on a NOAC first step is to start Warfarin.
tyrone1973 said:
Yes this is correct - the only anticoagulant that can be measured is Warfarin using the INR.
This is effectively a ratio of clotting vs time - 1 is normal and 2 is takes twice as long.
All of the other NOAC drugs apixaban and rivaroxaban are not measured.
Effectively we take the drug companies word for it that they work based on previous data from drug tests.
If you clot on a NOAC first step is to start Warfarin.
Thanks. And wow,am sure I remember my INR hitting 8 when I was young and stupid. Maybe I have that wrong but the Dr was annoyed. That means 8x times longer to clot presumably.This is effectively a ratio of clotting vs time - 1 is normal and 2 is takes twice as long.
All of the other NOAC drugs apixaban and rivaroxaban are not measured.
Effectively we take the drug companies word for it that they work based on previous data from drug tests.
If you clot on a NOAC first step is to start Warfarin.
So is my alcohol theory plausible would you say?
In short, yes it does help to thin the blood but not in the way warfarin does. Once alcohol enters the bloodstream it does this which does affect clotting .
Secondly, the alcohol actively disrupts the ability of warfarin to be properly metabolised, meaning each dose sort of lasts a bit longer.
Over time, warfarin and other anticoagulant levels run the risk of reaching undesirable levels.
Thumbs up to the home testing kits, if the symptoms disappear when you've had a few units then speak to your doc and jiggle around with the drug doses. If you started treatment whilst consuming regular booze, then stopped the booze - it will make sense that some symptoms return.
Also worth mentioning that alcohol has several different ways of being metabolised, depending on ethnicity. If the anticoagulant drug uses part of the same metabolic pathway, that too will affect the rate of drug metabolism.
Lastly, as alcohol is metabolised by the liver, one of the by-products is quite nasty (it's not the ethanol that does the damage, but a toxic by-product as ethanol is broken down) and that will actively fk up the carrier proteins in the blood, making any warfarin temporarily homeless and essentially living in a cardboard box underneath some railway arches.
Still feel free to drink responsibly. What works for you, might not work for someone else.
btw what sort of rum was it? I've got a bottle of Goslings black seal, my guilty pleasure
Secondly, the alcohol actively disrupts the ability of warfarin to be properly metabolised, meaning each dose sort of lasts a bit longer.
Over time, warfarin and other anticoagulant levels run the risk of reaching undesirable levels.
Thumbs up to the home testing kits, if the symptoms disappear when you've had a few units then speak to your doc and jiggle around with the drug doses. If you started treatment whilst consuming regular booze, then stopped the booze - it will make sense that some symptoms return.
Also worth mentioning that alcohol has several different ways of being metabolised, depending on ethnicity. If the anticoagulant drug uses part of the same metabolic pathway, that too will affect the rate of drug metabolism.
Lastly, as alcohol is metabolised by the liver, one of the by-products is quite nasty (it's not the ethanol that does the damage, but a toxic by-product as ethanol is broken down) and that will actively f
k up the carrier proteins in the blood, making any warfarin temporarily homeless and essentially living in a cardboard box underneath some railway arches.Still feel free to drink responsibly. What works for you, might not work for someone else.
btw what sort of rum was it? I've got a bottle of Goslings black seal, my guilty pleasure
I'm the OP - am not on warfarin but was apixaban. Not sure if your explanation relates only to warfarin or other AC but is interesting. Either way am now convinced that the dose is too low for my condition. Have had multiple clots (include IVC) and so have officially knocked low alco lifestyle on head until I speak to GP. Got two long haul flights next week so I'm alco-ACing myself up along with fluids etc in prep. :P
Thanks for the link, will have a read but initial glance suggests it's a bit over my head but I'll try and learn from it
Ps the rum in question was kraken.
Thanks for the link, will have a read but initial glance suggests it's a bit over my head but I'll try and learn from it
Ps the rum in question was kraken.
Edited by bmwmike on Sunday 17th March 08:32
Ooh Kraken 
Not a big fan of the spiced ones but Kraken is one I imbibe with a dash of dorset ginger, guaranteed to snuff out any colds and flu. Try Goslings 171, if you can get hold of it. 75.5% blows your socks off.
Ignore the linky if it's too technical or drop me a PM for any technical questions, I'll answer them in non technical speak.
Apixaban and warfarin work in two different ways; warfarin works on vitamin K by kicking it in the nuts; apixaban works directly on clotting proteins by jumping on its back and poking its fingers up the nose of the victim. In that respect, a small glass of Kraken will have a greater effect if you're taking apixaban as opposed to warfarin.
You should be ok on a short haul flight, but anything over, say, 2 hours then take some aspirin with you and some compression stockings for the legs and feet, don't be afraid to get up and walk around the aircraft every so often.
It very much sounds as though your dose needs adjusting, more so prior to any medium or longer haul flights.
Not a big fan of the spiced ones but Kraken is one I imbibe with a dash of dorset ginger, guaranteed to snuff out any colds and flu. Try Goslings 171, if you can get hold of it. 75.5% blows your socks off.Ignore the linky if it's too technical or drop me a PM for any technical questions, I'll answer them in non technical speak.
Apixaban and warfarin work in two different ways; warfarin works on vitamin K by kicking it in the nuts; apixaban works directly on clotting proteins by jumping on its back and poking its fingers up the nose of the victim. In that respect, a small glass of Kraken will have a greater effect if you're taking apixaban as opposed to warfarin.
You should be ok on a short haul flight, but anything over, say, 2 hours then take some aspirin with you and some compression stockings for the legs and feet, don't be afraid to get up and walk around the aircraft every so often.
It very much sounds as though your dose needs adjusting, more so prior to any medium or longer haul flights.
Wiccan of Darkness said:
Ooh Kraken Not a big fan of the spiced ones but Kraken is one I imbibe with a dash of dorset ginger, guaranteed to snuff out any colds and flu. Try Goslings 171, if you can get hold of it. 75.5% blows your socks off.
Ignore the linky if it's too technical or drop me a PM for any technical questions, I'll answer them in non technical speak.
Apixaban and warfarin work in two different ways; warfarin works on vitamin K by kicking it in the nuts; apixaban works directly on clotting proteins by jumping on its back and poking its fingers up the nose of the victim. In that respect, a small glass of Kraken will have a greater effect if you're taking apixaban as opposed to warfarin.
You should be ok on a short haul flight, but anything over, say, 2 hours then take some aspirin with you and some compression stockings for the legs and feet, don't be afraid to get up and walk around the aircraft every so often.
It very much sounds as though your dose needs adjusting, more so prior to any medium or longer haul flights.
Hi so I met with the GP and they spoke to my former haematologist and they are convinced I'm on the correct dose. Couldn't explain why symptoms got a lot worse when not drinking and magically disappeared when I started drinking again. They are basically saying call us if you get a DVT but otherwise f Not a big fan of the spiced ones but Kraken is one I imbibe with a dash of dorset ginger, guaranteed to snuff out any colds and flu. Try Goslings 171, if you can get hold of it. 75.5% blows your socks off.Ignore the linky if it's too technical or drop me a PM for any technical questions, I'll answer them in non technical speak.
Apixaban and warfarin work in two different ways; warfarin works on vitamin K by kicking it in the nuts; apixaban works directly on clotting proteins by jumping on its back and poking its fingers up the nose of the victim. In that respect, a small glass of Kraken will have a greater effect if you're taking apixaban as opposed to warfarin.
You should be ok on a short haul flight, but anything over, say, 2 hours then take some aspirin with you and some compression stockings for the legs and feet, don't be afraid to get up and walk around the aircraft every so often.
It very much sounds as though your dose needs adjusting, more so prior to any medium or longer haul flights.
k off and don't bother us. I asked about whether long term occluded IVC is likely to require anything like observation long term but the answer was no, just AC. The GP also said it's probably not blocked anyway, just scarred - despite my giving them a f
king dosier of notes from Canada outlining in full detail exactly what's going on including occluded IVC, extent, and even evidence of clots in collateral veins post IVC occlusion. I've got private medical, wondering if I should get a referral for a vascular type rather than a haematologist?
I don't take any medication but I have some sort of weakness in my right nostril that can bleed quite easily.
When I have had more than a couple of units in the evening I can be sure the nose will bleed as soon as I touch it or if I blow my left nostril I have to be really carefull.
If I've had a big drink then it's going to bleed on its own at some point the next morning.
When I have had more than a couple of units in the evening I can be sure the nose will bleed as soon as I touch it or if I blow my left nostril I have to be really carefull.
If I've had a big drink then it's going to bleed on its own at some point the next morning.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff