Anyone else worried about F1?
Discussion
Just throwing it out there but over the last year I've started to become really worried about F1 (and actually, motoring in general).
The weight of opinion regarding Petrol (and Diesel, but that's not pertinent to F1 of course) and speed is changing at such a rate of knots that, in my opinion F1 could be obsolete and fans that like F1 could become a social pariah in a couple of years time....potentially.....in my opinion.
I've read elsewhere that it's all about the pinnacle of motorsport and it's about the spectacle, the racing, the show. But is it? Is Liberty and the FIA actually getting that message across to the man in the street? The generalist fan as it were? I don't think so.
I think they've no idea the strides the F1 teams have made in thermal efficiency of the actual engine, the benefits of the lessons being learnt in regenerative areas etc that will directly benefit many areas of industry (not just cars). I've seen nothing about any of that; any of the benefits of F1 anywhere, at any time.
Anyone else sharing these concerns or am I trudging down a lonely needless path of worry?!
The weight of opinion regarding Petrol (and Diesel, but that's not pertinent to F1 of course) and speed is changing at such a rate of knots that, in my opinion F1 could be obsolete and fans that like F1 could become a social pariah in a couple of years time....potentially.....in my opinion.
I've read elsewhere that it's all about the pinnacle of motorsport and it's about the spectacle, the racing, the show. But is it? Is Liberty and the FIA actually getting that message across to the man in the street? The generalist fan as it were? I don't think so.
I think they've no idea the strides the F1 teams have made in thermal efficiency of the actual engine, the benefits of the lessons being learnt in regenerative areas etc that will directly benefit many areas of industry (not just cars). I've seen nothing about any of that; any of the benefits of F1 anywhere, at any time.
Anyone else sharing these concerns or am I trudging down a lonely needless path of worry?!
I can't see F1 becoming irrelevant in the next few years, at least not until electric (or whatever else) cars get as fast. Speed has always been attractive. Indy, NASCAR, touring cars etc. are all ICE and they're still healthy as far as I know. Time will tell.
Veering off-topic a bit, I feel Formula E missed a trick by doing away with the car change half way. For me it was no worse than an F1 pit stop for tyres. With their bigger battery packs for this season, they could have used 2 cars a race and gone loads faster, perhaps venturing onto 'proper' race circuits.
Veering off-topic a bit, I feel Formula E missed a trick by doing away with the car change half way. For me it was no worse than an F1 pit stop for tyres. With their bigger battery packs for this season, they could have used 2 cars a race and gone loads faster, perhaps venturing onto 'proper' race circuits.
I feel certain that Motorsport will be a very low priority to all but a few people in 50-years time. The only question is - what will be what is the rate of decline in 20-years time?
I was not brought up in a gender-neutral environment so my dad built me a garage to park all my Dinky toy cars in. My F1 models were my pride and joy. I had read about the drivers and studied cutaways of their cars in my weekly comic. We did not even own a TV then, but somehow the passion was already there.
At age 11, I met my current best friend who also shared my passion, but even more so as his dad was car crazy. We used to attend any Motorsport event that we could manage, stand out watching the RAC Rally etc. He now regularly competes in events like Goodwood FoS and Le Mans Classic, also Historic rallies in GpB cars that he collects.
I was also mad keen on cycling from an early age and once I had passed my cycling proficiency test, I was allowed to cycle pretty much anywhere. Owning and driving a car had the potential to massively expand those horizons and so was an absolute necessity. Car and Car Conversions was essential reading - how else were you to get a bit of extra umph from an 850cc Mini. So by the time that some F1 coverage became available, circa 1977, I had watch a GP at Silverstone and was a ready-made viewer. There is not even a British GP from next year.
I do not know many young folk, but those that I do are not remotely interested in F1. A couple of years ago a friend’s 17-year old grandson visited from France. At that time we had a McLaren garage in town and I took him to see it as it had a West F1 car on display. On the way there, we passed the Tesla garage. I struggled to get him past.
Kids are now driven everywhere in their parent’s VW Tiguan, or similar piece of junk. They are only really interested in the “free” (or pirated) content on their mobile phone. They can visit anyone they want online. Every new car ad seems to concentrate on the car’s connectivity and if you are so engrossed in your Social Media, it has the built-in ability to keep in lane and stop if something obstructs your way - it can even park itself so no skill is required. This is building up to the perfect storm of electric self-driving vehicles.
The government has already legislated to outlaw ICEs from 2040. The next step is to make driving for pleasure to seem as socially unacceptable as blowing smoke in the face of a baby.
I think that Liberty will struggle to make significant money in the medium-long term. There will simply be little, or no, demand, from new enthusiasts in significant numbers.
So yes, I do worry about the future of F1, but the immediate problems of SKY’s monopoly and their inability to communicate just how clever the current cars are are relatively minor concerns for the short term.
I was not brought up in a gender-neutral environment so my dad built me a garage to park all my Dinky toy cars in. My F1 models were my pride and joy. I had read about the drivers and studied cutaways of their cars in my weekly comic. We did not even own a TV then, but somehow the passion was already there.
At age 11, I met my current best friend who also shared my passion, but even more so as his dad was car crazy. We used to attend any Motorsport event that we could manage, stand out watching the RAC Rally etc. He now regularly competes in events like Goodwood FoS and Le Mans Classic, also Historic rallies in GpB cars that he collects.
I was also mad keen on cycling from an early age and once I had passed my cycling proficiency test, I was allowed to cycle pretty much anywhere. Owning and driving a car had the potential to massively expand those horizons and so was an absolute necessity. Car and Car Conversions was essential reading - how else were you to get a bit of extra umph from an 850cc Mini. So by the time that some F1 coverage became available, circa 1977, I had watch a GP at Silverstone and was a ready-made viewer. There is not even a British GP from next year.
I do not know many young folk, but those that I do are not remotely interested in F1. A couple of years ago a friend’s 17-year old grandson visited from France. At that time we had a McLaren garage in town and I took him to see it as it had a West F1 car on display. On the way there, we passed the Tesla garage. I struggled to get him past.
Kids are now driven everywhere in their parent’s VW Tiguan, or similar piece of junk. They are only really interested in the “free” (or pirated) content on their mobile phone. They can visit anyone they want online. Every new car ad seems to concentrate on the car’s connectivity and if you are so engrossed in your Social Media, it has the built-in ability to keep in lane and stop if something obstructs your way - it can even park itself so no skill is required. This is building up to the perfect storm of electric self-driving vehicles.
The government has already legislated to outlaw ICEs from 2040. The next step is to make driving for pleasure to seem as socially unacceptable as blowing smoke in the face of a baby.
I think that Liberty will struggle to make significant money in the medium-long term. There will simply be little, or no, demand, from new enthusiasts in significant numbers.
So yes, I do worry about the future of F1, but the immediate problems of SKY’s monopoly and their inability to communicate just how clever the current cars are are relatively minor concerns for the short term.
On the face of it, to stay relevant, and in the end, acceptable in a post oil-age world, it's easy to worry that F1 would need to change so much that it would no longer be F1.
On the other hand, you have to be careful not to judge the merits of the future by what is lost from the past. As has been mentioned, the clock is tick for ICE's so we it's very hard to imagine the generation after the current 'getting' F1 when ICE road cars will be generally old and considered dirty by the time they're at an age to start to appreciate Motorsport. So in the fullness of time, all motorsport has to start to migrate to electric, there is no other long term destination. So we have to accept the we will lose the engine sound altogether at some point.
But what could the sport gain? In theory, an electric F1 car could do things a current car could not, it could exceed the limits in a number of ways. The centre of gravity can become so low, and the power increased and weight decreased to the point that unbelievable levels of down force can be generated. It also can also be high drag down force, with the dirty air fired upwards, rather than out the back, which would allow for extreme high speed overtaking in the corners. The kids of tomorrow, may grow up in a world where their thrill in motor sport is seeing cars held to the track as if by magnets, and driven by the few people in the world that are gifted with fighter pilot beating quick wits and reflexes. That may all sound crazy, but they could build such a car today and it would quite easily push the abilities of any driver on the grid.. Albeit, it would be out of power after a 1-2 laps.. But with new battery tech on the horizon at last, that could change in in the same time it's going to take to for electric cars to start to out-sell ICE's, so in terms of the future, it's all entirely possible.
The above is just one possible route for the sport to go, the point is that the future isn't crap, just because it may not include what we enjoy today.
But what of Formula E!? How does that fit in if the future of F1 is electric? Well, it doesn't. And it doesn't need too either. It's reason to exist is by its title temporary. In a world where all cars in all racing series are to end up electric, then there is no novelty left for Formula 'E'. But it could well serve a purpose as the transition happens, some ICE committed teams may not continue in F1, and then perhaps some Formula E teams to migrate to F1 at that point, or perhaps various other spheres of motor sport.
As for whether or not Liberty is the able to maintain interest and relevance during the tricky next couple of decades, I think they're as well setup as anyone can be. Some of the changes initiatives they have shown to engage new fans, in new ways are great. The netflix show for instance, is a fantastic way for a casual watcher to understand the world of F1. They have found a modern way to present the true drama of life in F1 to the masses, and knowing the extent of the passion, drama and determination on the sport, makes it far easier for people to understand why the racing matters, and why the teams and drivers seem to complain about apparently minor things. Liberty appear to be thinking along the right lines. I think they are finding several ways of improving the spectacle, not all of which will work but it's clear they're as concerned about the future as any of us are, and are thinking of how to adapt.
On the other hand, you have to be careful not to judge the merits of the future by what is lost from the past. As has been mentioned, the clock is tick for ICE's so we it's very hard to imagine the generation after the current 'getting' F1 when ICE road cars will be generally old and considered dirty by the time they're at an age to start to appreciate Motorsport. So in the fullness of time, all motorsport has to start to migrate to electric, there is no other long term destination. So we have to accept the we will lose the engine sound altogether at some point.
But what could the sport gain? In theory, an electric F1 car could do things a current car could not, it could exceed the limits in a number of ways. The centre of gravity can become so low, and the power increased and weight decreased to the point that unbelievable levels of down force can be generated. It also can also be high drag down force, with the dirty air fired upwards, rather than out the back, which would allow for extreme high speed overtaking in the corners. The kids of tomorrow, may grow up in a world where their thrill in motor sport is seeing cars held to the track as if by magnets, and driven by the few people in the world that are gifted with fighter pilot beating quick wits and reflexes. That may all sound crazy, but they could build such a car today and it would quite easily push the abilities of any driver on the grid.. Albeit, it would be out of power after a 1-2 laps.. But with new battery tech on the horizon at last, that could change in in the same time it's going to take to for electric cars to start to out-sell ICE's, so in terms of the future, it's all entirely possible.
The above is just one possible route for the sport to go, the point is that the future isn't crap, just because it may not include what we enjoy today.
But what of Formula E!? How does that fit in if the future of F1 is electric? Well, it doesn't. And it doesn't need too either. It's reason to exist is by its title temporary. In a world where all cars in all racing series are to end up electric, then there is no novelty left for Formula 'E'. But it could well serve a purpose as the transition happens, some ICE committed teams may not continue in F1, and then perhaps some Formula E teams to migrate to F1 at that point, or perhaps various other spheres of motor sport.
As for whether or not Liberty is the able to maintain interest and relevance during the tricky next couple of decades, I think they're as well setup as anyone can be. Some of the changes initiatives they have shown to engage new fans, in new ways are great. The netflix show for instance, is a fantastic way for a casual watcher to understand the world of F1. They have found a modern way to present the true drama of life in F1 to the masses, and knowing the extent of the passion, drama and determination on the sport, makes it far easier for people to understand why the racing matters, and why the teams and drivers seem to complain about apparently minor things. Liberty appear to be thinking along the right lines. I think they are finding several ways of improving the spectacle, not all of which will work but it's clear they're as concerned about the future as any of us are, and are thinking of how to adapt.
As long as it remains entertaining then motorsport will continue in some form or other. F1's main concern should be that it avoids disappearing up its own a
hole by bringing in some serious cost controls and making it easier for new teams to enter, in preparation for when the current manufacturers inevitably decide to quit.
hole by bringing in some serious cost controls and making it easier for new teams to enter, in preparation for when the current manufacturers inevitably decide to quit.chunder27 said:
Horse racing exists primarly because of betting, it is the driving force behind most of it.
f1 does not have that.
I have no idea why, but F1 is still popular right now. it is beyond me why, but I must be wrong.
Plenty of people betting on F1.f1 does not have that.
I have no idea why, but F1 is still popular right now. it is beyond me why, but I must be wrong.
Aintree and Ascot don't have anything to worry about. It's an event.
rdjohn - I used to think 50 years too but things are changing so much that I honestly worry that petrol could be banned within 10 years. Maybe less.
More of a worry is that F1 is seen as gratuitous, if it doesn't change.
The problem with going electric is that that space is already taken by.....Formula E. they'll be second to the party if F1 decides to adopt 100% electric. It's such a backward step imo - everyone thinks electric is 'free/environmentally friendly/guilt-free' when we all know that this is simply not the case - but just because they don't have an exhaust pipe and the govt is push-push-pushing the message it's suddenly a very very serious threat.
I love F1. love cars. I'm actually afaid that I'm going to run out of time to have a caterham (getting slightly off topic here) as a third car (we've other plans at the moment so can't go there on a third car) but I sat her down over the weekend and said - things have got to change and change quick! I've got to get in one (or something loosely equivalent if I can't get to the budget in time).
I think F1 is sleep walking into disaster - all this talk of tweaking the aero in 2021 - all well and good but I sincerely feel that there are macro forces at work that will make their primary propulsion socially unacceptable far sooner than they imagine. If the manufacturers get a sniff of F1 affecting their PR in any way shape or form - they'll be off before you can spell ghosn.
More of a worry is that F1 is seen as gratuitous, if it doesn't change.
The problem with going electric is that that space is already taken by.....Formula E. they'll be second to the party if F1 decides to adopt 100% electric. It's such a backward step imo - everyone thinks electric is 'free/environmentally friendly/guilt-free' when we all know that this is simply not the case - but just because they don't have an exhaust pipe and the govt is push-push-pushing the message it's suddenly a very very serious threat.
I love F1. love cars. I'm actually afaid that I'm going to run out of time to have a caterham (getting slightly off topic here) as a third car (we've other plans at the moment so can't go there on a third car) but I sat her down over the weekend and said - things have got to change and change quick! I've got to get in one (or something loosely equivalent if I can't get to the budget in time).
I think F1 is sleep walking into disaster - all this talk of tweaking the aero in 2021 - all well and good but I sincerely feel that there are macro forces at work that will make their primary propulsion socially unacceptable far sooner than they imagine. If the manufacturers get a sniff of F1 affecting their PR in any way shape or form - they'll be off before you can spell ghosn.
chunder27 said:
Horse racing exists primarly because of betting, it is the driving force behind most of it.
f1 does not have that.
I have no idea why, but F1 is still popular right now. it is beyond me why, but I must be wrong.
I've held off but I have to ask now...f1 does not have that.
I have no idea why, but F1 is still popular right now. it is beyond me why, but I must be wrong.
Every day you post on these forums questioning why anyone would pay, watch or care about F1. Yet you're posting on an F1 forum still!?
I hate football. Hence, you will not find my views on any forum concerned with football. Are you a militant ex F1 fan!?
More like couldn't care less about F1 these days! I have zero love left for F1 (well done Bernie, what a greedy little git, he ruined what was left of it for the new owners, after years of greed based deals).
Well done F1 on now only having at best 300,000 live UK viewers per event.
Sponsors must just love that 'huge' live audience they now have! 300,000 live viewers, tiddley winks on C4 would get more.
All the years of fake audience figures being quoted are now exposed by the truth behind the Sky live audience.
I think the new owners have a huge amount of work to do in order to build up their fan base, whether new or old its not going to be easy. I'm still watching the highlights (recorded, on fast forward if it gets boring!).
Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:
rdjohn - I used to think 50 years too but things are changing so much that I honestly worry that petrol could be banned within 10 years. Maybe less.
More of a worry is that F1 is seen as gratuitous, if it doesn't change.
The problem with going electric is that that space is already taken by.....Formula E. they'll be second to the party if F1 decides to adopt 100% electric. It's such a backward step imo - everyone thinks electric is 'free/environmentally friendly/guilt-free' when we all know that this is simply not the case - but just because they don't have an exhaust pipe and the govt is push-push-pushing the message it's suddenly a very very serious threat.
I love F1. love cars. I'm actually afaid that I'm going to run out of time to have a caterham (getting slightly off topic here) as a third car (we've other plans at the moment so can't go there on a third car) but I sat her down over the weekend and said - things have got to change and change quick! I've got to get in one (or something loosely equivalent if I can't get to the budget in time).
I think F1 is sleep walking into disaster - all this talk of tweaking the aero in 2021 - all well and good but I sincerely feel that there are macro forces at work that will make their primary propulsion socially unacceptable far sooner than they imagine. If the manufacturers get a sniff of F1 affecting their PR in any way shape or form - they'll be off before you can spell ghosn.
So much of this is fear/uncertainty more than reality.More of a worry is that F1 is seen as gratuitous, if it doesn't change.
The problem with going electric is that that space is already taken by.....Formula E. they'll be second to the party if F1 decides to adopt 100% electric. It's such a backward step imo - everyone thinks electric is 'free/environmentally friendly/guilt-free' when we all know that this is simply not the case - but just because they don't have an exhaust pipe and the govt is push-push-pushing the message it's suddenly a very very serious threat.
I love F1. love cars. I'm actually afaid that I'm going to run out of time to have a caterham (getting slightly off topic here) as a third car (we've other plans at the moment so can't go there on a third car) but I sat her down over the weekend and said - things have got to change and change quick! I've got to get in one (or something loosely equivalent if I can't get to the budget in time).
I think F1 is sleep walking into disaster - all this talk of tweaking the aero in 2021 - all well and good but I sincerely feel that there are macro forces at work that will make their primary propulsion socially unacceptable far sooner than they imagine. If the manufacturers get a sniff of F1 affecting their PR in any way shape or form - they'll be off before you can spell ghosn.
First you have approx 20 years before ICE is phased out in most of Europe, so sales won't be hugely effected first least 10 years. And then you have a situation where used ICE cars that are falling out of fashion become amazing second hand bargains, so people will keep and run them. It's at least 10 years before the swing to mostly electric occurs and then another 10 before ICE becomes a thing of the past. And they will never need to ban petrol cars, ever. The ban on manufacturing and selling will do the job. The rest will happen naturally.
Caterham will be the exception to the rule that will keep going in the same way you can still buy a half timbered Morgan.
Formula E is a precursor to the future of F1. And if I'm wrong about that then.. formula E will become the new F1. Think about what F1 is, it's the highest form of Motorsport. There will always be a highest form of the sport, there can't not be... But in the future when it's all electric they obviously won't need the 'E'. Anymore than current F1 needs a 'P' to remind the world what powers the cars.
As for electric cars being bad for the environment, you're right. Batteries are far from the best solution. But it's the one within reach and is significantly better than ICE overall. Yes that includes production, life running costs and disposal. And the next gen of batteries will quite easily last long enough to serve the life of more than one vehicle.
I've never been an eco warrior. But I do believe that advances in technology can solve problems at a faster rate than it creates them. That's all that's happening here - the same human force that gave you petrol engines is taking them away, and upgrading.
Deuce, why hate football? I don't hate any sports, I just don't watch some.
I grew up watching F1, but it has become such a shadow of itself it is very frustrating to see. The hybrid era has done it in, and as you can see from numerous posters I am not alone, so have a go as them too, dont just check the username, and pick me out, several others do it too
If you think its great, good for you, I am not going to slap you on the back, but I will stick the point in that right now it's not a sport worth watching, the drivers know it, as do a lot of older fans. OK we might be the old school, but surely better t cater for everyone, not just the few
Just an opinion, it's what these things are for.
I grew up watching F1, but it has become such a shadow of itself it is very frustrating to see. The hybrid era has done it in, and as you can see from numerous posters I am not alone, so have a go as them too, dont just check the username, and pick me out, several others do it too
If you think its great, good for you, I am not going to slap you on the back, but I will stick the point in that right now it's not a sport worth watching, the drivers know it, as do a lot of older fans. OK we might be the old school, but surely better t cater for everyone, not just the few
Just an opinion, it's what these things are for.
chunder27 said:
Deuce, why hate football? I don't hate any sports, I just don't watch some.
I grew up watching F1, but it has become such a shadow of itself it is very frustrating to see. The hybrid era has done it in, and as you can see from numerous posters I am not alone, so have a go as them too, dont just check the username, and pick me out, several others do it too
If you think its great, good for you, I am not going to slap you on the back, but I will stick the point in that right now it's not a sport worth watching, the drivers know it, as do a lot of older fans. OK we might be the old school, but surely better t cater for everyone, not just the few
Just an opinion, it's what these things are for.
Fair point, I don't hate football - but I do dislike the fact I'm often expected (I assume, because I am male) to care.I grew up watching F1, but it has become such a shadow of itself it is very frustrating to see. The hybrid era has done it in, and as you can see from numerous posters I am not alone, so have a go as them too, dont just check the username, and pick me out, several others do it too
If you think its great, good for you, I am not going to slap you on the back, but I will stick the point in that right now it's not a sport worth watching, the drivers know it, as do a lot of older fans. OK we might be the old school, but surely better t cater for everyone, not just the few
Just an opinion, it's what these things are for.
I'm really not having a go at you, I doubt the 'others' are either. I don't imagine anyone is that bothered about convincing you it's a great sport either. It's very much your own choice!
Catering to everyone is sadly impossible, in life in general. The sport caters to the biggest majority it can. Billions spent, they are going to take who they cater to pretty seriously to protect that investment. If they get it wrong? Frankly that's their business. I don't like it all myself but I'm aware they may see a world of opportunity that I don't fit into so well as single punter.
All I can do is repeat the as yet unanswered question: If you don't like it anymore, whats with the continued community input on these forums? I'm not saying you shouldn't post, I never would. But every time you do it's a post that is anti the sport that these forums exist to discuss.
TheDeuce said:
. The sport caters to the biggest majority it can. Billions spent, they are going to take who they cater to pretty seriously to protect that investment. If they get it wrong? Frankly that's their business.
This is the key point, I work in Marketing, and sadly F1 has shot itself in the foot. A savvy' sponsor can now see straight through the previous F1 audience figures as nonsense - very few people are watching it live, its lost its TV audience,.
Hence if you are a big brand you will put you advertising dollars somewhere else.
The advertisers can now see past the nonsensical audience viewing figures that used to be claimed (syndicated, repeats etc).
The current F1 model needs TV money to thrive, the teams need sponsor money to survive, but that sponsor money is drying up as the live viewing audiences drop off, sponsors are not stupid - their money flows to where the most viewings or clicks are - and that is not F1....
Eric Mc said:
sparta6 said:
Nothing to worry about.
Plenty of people turning upto, and tuning into, horse racing. This isn't particularly relevant to every day life either.
You do know that there has been a steady decline in interest in horse racing as well?Plenty of people turning upto, and tuning into, horse racing. This isn't particularly relevant to every day life either.
They will be much more relevant to daily life
Maybe when electric vehicles become the norm, there will be no need for F1 to be road car relevant ?
Teams can go a bit more wild with their IC motors but then again the car manufacturers will have no interest in being in F1 either.
Will be interesting to see F1 in 10 years.
Same for Moto GP.
Not a lot of talk about electric bikes ? There are a few about but not really making the headlines.
Teams can go a bit more wild with their IC motors but then again the car manufacturers will have no interest in being in F1 either.
Will be interesting to see F1 in 10 years.
Same for Moto GP.
Not a lot of talk about electric bikes ? There are a few about but not really making the headlines.
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