Job and pay oddities. Any accountants around to help?
Discussion
I may have been naive, I may have just been stupid but I find myself in what could potentially be a sticky situation.
18 months ago I started a job at an engineering company as their first and only employee. I was under the impression I was fully employed, albeit without a contract (mistake #1 but I was out of work and was desperate).
4 months later another employee was hired as self employed for a couple of months as the company was changing and he would be employed properly a couple of months down the line.
My boss is a frequent smoke and mirrors peddler (I don't really want to say liar) but I find myself 18 months later being self employed with no record of pay slips, no account and therefore no tax. From what I can gather, there are fabricated invoices in the office for myself and my colleague.
What can I do here?
I'm looking for another job asap but I fear I'm in hot water.
If anyone wants to email me then feel free, please but advice would be appreciated and certainly needed. Unless you are HMRC, Haha.
Thanks,
Bob, or Tim or whatever my name is
18 months ago I started a job at an engineering company as their first and only employee. I was under the impression I was fully employed, albeit without a contract (mistake #1 but I was out of work and was desperate).
4 months later another employee was hired as self employed for a couple of months as the company was changing and he would be employed properly a couple of months down the line.
My boss is a frequent smoke and mirrors peddler (I don't really want to say liar) but I find myself 18 months later being self employed with no record of pay slips, no account and therefore no tax. From what I can gather, there are fabricated invoices in the office for myself and my colleague.
What can I do here?
I'm looking for another job asap but I fear I'm in hot water.
If anyone wants to email me then feel free, please but advice would be appreciated and certainly needed. Unless you are HMRC, Haha.
Thanks,
Bob, or Tim or whatever my name is
I assume you aren't registered for self employment but effectively that’s what you were/are - register for SE and get an accountant to submit last 2 years tax returns for you.
You will have a tax bill if you earned over the threshold, and you'll have penalties for the 2017/18 year if you started self employment Sep 17. Luckily that makes the self assessment only 3 months late as of now, but daily penalties start next week so I would suggest getting a wiggle on.
You will have a tax bill if you earned over the threshold, and you'll have penalties for the 2017/18 year if you started self employment Sep 17. Luckily that makes the self assessment only 3 months late as of now, but daily penalties start next week so I would suggest getting a wiggle on.
Did you get a P60 at the end of tax year 2017/18? no
Did you get payslips each month? no
If you did not get any of the above, at what point after 5 April 2018 did you challenge your employer and ask him when was he going to give these LEGALLY REQUIRED documents? Well... you see, I/ we didn't. This is where the extreme naivety comes in, it's just not something I noticed not receiving.
I was told nearer that time that payslip were exactly a necessity and that some small businesses don't issue them. This wasn't said to me by my boss by the way
Did you get payslips each month? no
If you did not get any of the above, at what point after 5 April 2018 did you challenge your employer and ask him when was he going to give these LEGALLY REQUIRED documents? Well... you see, I/ we didn't. This is where the extreme naivety comes in, it's just not something I noticed not receiving.
I was told nearer that time that payslip were exactly a necessity and that some small businesses don't issue them. This wasn't said to me by my boss by the way
BigGingerBob said:
I was told nearer that time that payslip were exactly a necessity and that some small businesses don't issue them. This wasn't said to me by my boss by the way
It’s highly unlikely that you have paid any tax or NI since you’ve been employed by him. Your boss is breaking the law. You will get chased for tax at some point.
How did you know you were being paid the right amount?
You probably need help from an accountant but be warned it's posssible that you'll be hit with back tax, NI & late payment charges. I don't know if there are any Citizens Advice centers near you but it would be one place to start.
Your employer could easily end up facing charges if the situation is as bad as you say.
Your employer could easily end up facing charges if the situation is as bad as you say.
And if the OP wants to maintain that he was employed, what is the best course of action? That is what I'd be doing in his situation...
I'm not saying play dumb, but don't go registering as self employed when you weren't, surely? It's not like the OP was invoicing his customer. He was being paid monthly by his employer...
I'm not saying play dumb, but don't go registering as self employed when you weren't, surely? It's not like the OP was invoicing his customer. He was being paid monthly by his employer...
Mr Pointy said:
You probably need help from an accountant but be warned it's posssible that you'll be hit with back tax, NI & late payment charges. I don't know if there are any Citizens Advice centers near you but it would be one place to start.
Your employer could easily end up facing charges if the situation is as bad as you say.
Good shout, I will give them a call. Looks like my motorbike a licence fund will have to be used for tax that I was under the impression I was paying.Your employer could easily end up facing charges if the situation is as bad as you say.
And yes... it is as bad as I say. after doing a little digging he has form for doing dodgy s
t with his businesses.UpTheIron said:
Check your NI record online... any contributions made for the years in question?
OP you can check that here:https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record
You were most definitely NOT self employed. You were hired as an employee, treated as an employee and paid as an employee. The employer has failed to fulfill his side of the deal regarding deducting and paying over the correct taxes and NI due on your salary and has also failed to supply you with legally required documents i.e. payslips and a P60.
Get out of there as soon as you can. The problem is that he is very unlikely to give you a P45 when you leave either - and your new employer may very well want to see this.
Get out of there as soon as you can. The problem is that he is very unlikely to give you a P45 when you leave either - and your new employer may very well want to see this.
Eric Mc said:
You were most definitely NOT self employed. You were hired as an employee, treated as an employee and paid as an employee. The employer has failed to fulfill his side of the deal regarding deducting and paying over the correct taxes and NI due on your salary and has also failed to supply you with legally required documents i.e. payslips and a P60.
Get out of there as soon as you can. The problem is that he is very unlikely to give you a P45 when you leave either - and your new employer may very well want to see this.
What should he do next though Eric? Approach HMRC? Can you possibly suggest an accountant who might be able to assist him?Get out of there as soon as you can. The problem is that he is very unlikely to give you a P45 when you leave either - and your new employer may very well want to see this.
Talking to HMRC is the "correct" thing to do - but from a pragmatic point of view it could backfire if the "employer" finds out and decides to be nasty. Based on what we know so far, the employer does not seem to be the type of chap who goes by any rules.
HMRC can chase both the employer AND the employee for any unpaid taxes - so that too could backfire on the OP if he contacts HMRC.
I think a visit to the Citizen's Advice Bureau might be worthwhile (as suggested above) as there are also legal issues surrounding workers/employee's rights at stake here.
What has the OP done in the past regarding holidays?
Does he know if he is entitled to any unpaid holiday pay?
HMRC can chase both the employer AND the employee for any unpaid taxes - so that too could backfire on the OP if he contacts HMRC.
I think a visit to the Citizen's Advice Bureau might be worthwhile (as suggested above) as there are also legal issues surrounding workers/employee's rights at stake here.
What has the OP done in the past regarding holidays?
Does he know if he is entitled to any unpaid holiday pay?
Thank you for all the replies, things were a bit hectic yesterday so I couldn't reply. I will get in contact with CAB today, they are open 9.30 to 12.30 so I will have to call.
Playing by the rules is not his game, it seems. I am applying for all sorts to get out.
I will also try and find an accountant to speak with for advice.
Thanks again,
Bob
Playing by the rules is not his game, it seems. I am applying for all sorts to get out.
I will also try and find an accountant to speak with for advice.
Thanks again,
Bob
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