Roundabouts - standing traffic - turning right
Discussion
Hello
Just wondering what the consensus is on this situation. Roundabout in question happens to be the A57/A618 junction. It's a three exit roundabout and essentially replaces a t-junction where the A618 would have joined the A57. I'm joining from south turning right from the A618. The traffic on the A57 is standing all across the roundabout heading west to east into exit on right. So I can't get into lane and am stuck in middle of roundabout and no one is moving and no on either is going to let me in.
I decide to continue to the right and into the exit which is wide enough to accommodate the stationary lane and me. Traffic starts moving and still no one letting me in as they think I'm queue jumping. Despite them all having seen my predicament.
Ends in verbals alround.
How would you have dealt with this situation and could I am they have done better?
Cheers
Mike
Just wondering what the consensus is on this situation. Roundabout in question happens to be the A57/A618 junction. It's a three exit roundabout and essentially replaces a t-junction where the A618 would have joined the A57. I'm joining from south turning right from the A618. The traffic on the A57 is standing all across the roundabout heading west to east into exit on right. So I can't get into lane and am stuck in middle of roundabout and no one is moving and no on either is going to let me in.
I decide to continue to the right and into the exit which is wide enough to accommodate the stationary lane and me. Traffic starts moving and still no one letting me in as they think I'm queue jumping. Despite them all having seen my predicament.
Ends in verbals alround.
How would you have dealt with this situation and could I am they have done better?
Cheers
Mike
Edited by mick666 on Saturday 23 March 07:04
Edited by mick666 on Saturday 23 March 07:05
If you were already established on the roundabout from the south then those joining from the west would have to yield to you at the give way markings as soon as the queue started moving. So just a case of you waiting for it to have started moving and firmly asserting your right of way.
Hmmm ... I wasn't already established ... I was the new comer. It was solid traffic across the west-east lane at the top of roundabout and I'm turning right from the south. And it wasn't moving at all. That's why I went round to the east bound exit on top of the hatchings out of the way hoping someone that side would let me in.
Only other alternative would be to stay at the enterance on the south bound side ... in which case no one on he far side is ever going to leave a gap. Or drive to the 9'o'clock position and wait for some one to let me in. Not good either as that's how total roundabout grid lock starts ...
Only other alternative would be to stay at the enterance on the south bound side ... in which case no one on he far side is ever going to leave a gap. Or drive to the 9'o'clock position and wait for some one to let me in. Not good either as that's how total roundabout grid lock starts ...
Edited by mick666 on Saturday 23 March 10:15
Edited by mick666 on Saturday 23 March 10:16
Excuse the crude graphics, but if I'm reading this right, this is basically what happened:
The traffic was nose to tail west to east (black line)
You came round the roundabout (yellow line), took the east exit and drove along the outside of the queuing traffic, beyond the arrow markings on the road that indicate where traffic should merge (red X), and further along the chevron section, that you shouldn't be driving in.
If that is the case, what you should have done is, when you got to the arrow markings, you should have put your left hand indicator on, slowed (or stopped if necessary) at the arrow markings, and waited for someone to let you in (which I appreciate can take a bit of time with today's: "F
k you, I'm not letting you in!" driver attitude).
As soon as you start driving beyond the arrow markings and into the chevron area, you are queue jumping (using the road in contravention of the road markings to make progress).
I suspect that what happens on this roundabout is, when it gets busy (nose to tail to go straight on), a whole lot of drivers travelling west to east, pull out of the queue of cars going straight on, use the right hand lane to drive past the queue, and then either just drive straight on, alongside the queueing cars, or go all the way around the roundabout, and then take the east bound exit, alongside the queueing cars - Queue jumping in a legal way (not morally correct, but not illegal)
Drivers who have been sat queueing for ages in the "straight on" traffic, see a car coming around the outside of them, and either assume the driver is a queue jumper, or they are just so fed up with the traffic, that they are determined not to be delayed by another car in front of them, regardless of whether the driver is a queue jumper or not.
Again, what you should do is merge where the arrows indicate you should - Even if it means coming to a halt to do so (which in today's selfish world, happens more than it should)
The traffic was nose to tail west to east (black line)
You came round the roundabout (yellow line), took the east exit and drove along the outside of the queuing traffic, beyond the arrow markings on the road that indicate where traffic should merge (red X), and further along the chevron section, that you shouldn't be driving in.
If that is the case, what you should have done is, when you got to the arrow markings, you should have put your left hand indicator on, slowed (or stopped if necessary) at the arrow markings, and waited for someone to let you in (which I appreciate can take a bit of time with today's: "F
k you, I'm not letting you in!" driver attitude).As soon as you start driving beyond the arrow markings and into the chevron area, you are queue jumping (using the road in contravention of the road markings to make progress).
I suspect that what happens on this roundabout is, when it gets busy (nose to tail to go straight on), a whole lot of drivers travelling west to east, pull out of the queue of cars going straight on, use the right hand lane to drive past the queue, and then either just drive straight on, alongside the queueing cars, or go all the way around the roundabout, and then take the east bound exit, alongside the queueing cars - Queue jumping in a legal way (not morally correct, but not illegal)
Drivers who have been sat queueing for ages in the "straight on" traffic, see a car coming around the outside of them, and either assume the driver is a queue jumper, or they are just so fed up with the traffic, that they are determined not to be delayed by another car in front of them, regardless of whether the driver is a queue jumper or not.
Again, what you should do is merge where the arrows indicate you should - Even if it means coming to a halt to do so (which in today's selfish world, happens more than it should)
Hello
Thanks for the detailed feedback ... and to previous poster. There are hatchings there, just not so obvious in picture and not as big as on other exits of roundabout.
I 100% agree that continuing along the yellow line would be queue jumping. However, I did in fact stop as soon as I cleared the exit ... so possibly on or before the red X. I did see the merger/move over signs and put my indicator on. I was there a couple of minutes and that's when it was obvious no one was going to let me in as the cars were moving around 1-2mph between stopping altogether. I'd say just about anyone on that roundabout saw what situation was and where I had come from and the position I was in.
That's really why I posted on here ... I thought, well considering I think I've done the sensible thing, am I in fact being a d@ck. if I'd driven on further then I think so ... but I didn't ... I just did what I thought was sensible not to contribute to any further gridlock.
So based on feedback above, I think I wasn't being a d@ck. I can see why people might get brassed off but it's pretty short sighted really.
Cheers
Mike
PS the main guy I got involved with was driving a heap of sh@t and had a horrible grey bushy moustache and brown teeth too!
Thanks for the detailed feedback ... and to previous poster. There are hatchings there, just not so obvious in picture and not as big as on other exits of roundabout.
I 100% agree that continuing along the yellow line would be queue jumping. However, I did in fact stop as soon as I cleared the exit ... so possibly on or before the red X. I did see the merger/move over signs and put my indicator on. I was there a couple of minutes and that's when it was obvious no one was going to let me in as the cars were moving around 1-2mph between stopping altogether. I'd say just about anyone on that roundabout saw what situation was and where I had come from and the position I was in.
That's really why I posted on here ... I thought, well considering I think I've done the sensible thing, am I in fact being a d@ck. if I'd driven on further then I think so ... but I didn't ... I just did what I thought was sensible not to contribute to any further gridlock.
So based on feedback above, I think I wasn't being a d@ck. I can see why people might get brassed off but it's pretty short sighted really.
Cheers
Mike
PS the main guy I got involved with was driving a heap of sh@t and had a horrible grey bushy moustache and brown teeth too!
Edited by mick666 on Saturday 23 March 13:59
Hello
Hmmm ... couldn't say but I think from his verbals he came west east. Didn't help that that part of the country seemed to be traffic melt down. Just south of Sheffield J30/31 M1 closed all lanes. Never seen so much traffic diverted up what amount to posh farms tracks around the locality.
Yes ... one of my pet hates ... merge in turn ... some drivers just don't seem to understand at all. There's one on the A1M at the power station. I've seen drivers slow right down to crawling speed and put their indicators on to move left. This is in the outside lane of a motorway with everyone else doing 90+. Same again at Angel of The Norh southbound.
Mental!
PS Apologies to southern members for the local references!
Hmmm ... couldn't say but I think from his verbals he came west east. Didn't help that that part of the country seemed to be traffic melt down. Just south of Sheffield J30/31 M1 closed all lanes. Never seen so much traffic diverted up what amount to posh farms tracks around the locality.
Yes ... one of my pet hates ... merge in turn ... some drivers just don't seem to understand at all. There's one on the A1M at the power station. I've seen drivers slow right down to crawling speed and put their indicators on to move left. This is in the outside lane of a motorway with everyone else doing 90+. Same again at Angel of The Norh southbound.
Mental!
PS Apologies to southern members for the local references!
Where you could have joined though is in front of the first car that hasn't crossed the white line at the junction of the western section of the A57 & the roundabout - about where the white car is under the black line. Given that he isn't on the roundabout & you are you definately have right of way & can be quite assertive in joining.
Shouldn’t (and I realise this never happens in reality) those going west to east stop and not enter the roundabout instead of queueing on it? In theory the OP is approaching from the right so they should give way to him as he has priority. He’s not pushing in, he’s doing the right thing isn’t he?
Antony Moxey said:
Shouldn’t (and I realise this never happens in reality) those going west to east stop and not enter the roundabout instead of queueing on it? In theory the OP is approaching from the right so they should give way to him as he has priority. He’s not pushing in, he’s doing the right thing isn’t he?
The trouble here is, the west-easters either still believe it should be a junction with ether having priority, or they feel the need to queue nose to tail to maintain their place in their constructed queue. As son as you have entered change indicator immediately to left. Your intentions are the clear early on. Then assertively, but not aggressively, make your path to the eastern exit, with the intention of entering this ‘queue’ as early as possible, preferably while still on the roundabout. It is difficult to comment when the area and ‘local’ practices are unknown. I am just grateful I live where people are not such self-obsessed dockheads.OP, you should really have positioned where the white car that has just joined the roundabout is on the image above. I too would have got the hump with you for passing a load of cars to then try to force your way in further along. I'd have still let you in though. However, all is forgiven if you're not local and genuinely believed the two lanes continued off the roundabout.
donkmeister said:
From looking at the Streetview on GOogle, it looks like the road east of the roundabout is one lane, with no merge point... If so, terrible road design.
Surely the merge point is the roundabout via give way to the right. Why should there need to be another merge point further down the road?herewego said:
donkmeister said:
From looking at the Streetview on GOogle, it looks like the road east of the roundabout is one lane, with no merge point... If so, terrible road design.
Surely the merge point is the roundabout via give way to the right. Why should there need to be another merge point further down the road?Mr Pointy said:
Where you could have joined though is in front of the first car that hasn't crossed the white line at the junction of the western section of the A57 & the roundabout - about where the white car is under the black line. Given that he isn't on the roundabout & you are you definately have right of way & can be quite assertive in joining.
WilliamWoollard said:
OP, you should really have positioned where the white car that has just joined the roundabout is on the image above. I too would have got the hump with you for passing a load of cars to then try to force your way in further along. I'd have still let you in though. However, all is forgiven if you're not local and genuinely believed the two lanes continued off the roundabout.
If that car was in a solid queue of east to west traffic (A57 to A57), as described in the original post, wouldn't he then be blocking east to south traffic (A57 to A618)?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff