HST - still the best UK train?
Discussion
For the 2nd time in a month I'm heading North on an HST and it struck me how nice they are to travel on. Comfy seats, spacious and airy in the coaches, quiet and fast. Compared to modern noisy multiple units with hard seats that stink of toilets (pendolinos) I can't think of a better train.
Venisonpie said:
For the 2nd time in a month I'm heading North on an HST and it struck me how nice they are to travel on. Comfy seats, spacious and airy in the coaches, quiet and fast. Compared to modern noisy multiple units with hard seats that stink of toilets (pendolinos) I can't think of a better train.
It all depends on how you define "better" and also which TOC operates them.We have had HSTs in the West of England for 40 years and they have been refurbished umpteen times, both internally and in the mechanical components. Internally they started off with tables throughout seating 4 (some 2s in first class) and finished up with only a few tables in 2nd class and high-back airline style seating. Whilst I agree they were much more comfortable than their ironing-board-fitted successors, the class 800s, I would argue that they were rather claustrophobic in that layout rather then spacious or airy.
I did travel on an HST operated ny East Midlands between St Pancras and Nottingham last year, and was surprised to see a very spartan-looking interior, although the lower-backed seats were still comfortable and the layout gave the impression of spaciousness and airiness:
I also travelled on a number of Pendalinos operated by Virgin last year, and I am afraid I have to call BS on "hard seats that stink of toilets" as I never came across this at all, and my conk is in very good working order (unlike my eyes which is why I spend so much time on trains these days...)
In fact in all my years of travelling by trains on my own (and that started in 1962) I have never come across a seat honking of toilets unless it was ab old Mk1 coach (or earlier) where someone may have "had an accident" into the horse hair. It's probably best not to elaborate on that last point
Finally, whilst I have already agreed that HSTs are more comfortable than the 800s, it has to be said that the acceleration qualities of the 800s are far superior even when running on diesel. They also use about 40% less fuel, which many people may think was a good thing.
rs1952 said:
It all depends on how you define "better" and also which TOC operates them.
We have had HSTs in the West of England for 40 years and they have been refurbished umpteen times, both internally and in the mechanical components. Internally they started off with tables throughout seating 4 (some 2s in first class) and finished up with only a few tables in 2nd class and high-back airline style seating. Whilst I agree they were much more comfortable than their ironing-board-fitted successors, the class 800s, I would argue that they were rather claustrophobic in that layout rather then spacious or airy.
I did travel on an HST operated ny East Midlands between St Pancras and Nottingham last year, and was surprised to see a very spartan-looking interior, although the lower-backed seats were still comfortable and the layout gave the impression of spaciousness and airiness:
I also travelled on a number of Pendalinos operated by Virgin last year, and I am afraid I have to call BS on "hard seats that stink of toilets" as I never came across this at all, and my conk is in very good working order (unlike my eyes which is why I spend so much time on trains these days...)
In fact in all my years of travelling by trains on my own (and that started in 1962) I have never come across a seat honking of toilets unless it was ab old Mk1 coach (or earlier) where someone may have "had an accident" into the horse hair. It's probably best not to elaborate on that last point
Finally, whilst I have already agreed that HSTs are more comfortable than the 800s, it has to be said that the acceleration qualities of the 800s are far superior even when running on diesel. They also use about 40% less fuel, which many people may think was a good thing.
The Cross Country trains whatever they called absolutely reek.We have had HSTs in the West of England for 40 years and they have been refurbished umpteen times, both internally and in the mechanical components. Internally they started off with tables throughout seating 4 (some 2s in first class) and finished up with only a few tables in 2nd class and high-back airline style seating. Whilst I agree they were much more comfortable than their ironing-board-fitted successors, the class 800s, I would argue that they were rather claustrophobic in that layout rather then spacious or airy.
I did travel on an HST operated ny East Midlands between St Pancras and Nottingham last year, and was surprised to see a very spartan-looking interior, although the lower-backed seats were still comfortable and the layout gave the impression of spaciousness and airiness:
I also travelled on a number of Pendalinos operated by Virgin last year, and I am afraid I have to call BS on "hard seats that stink of toilets" as I never came across this at all, and my conk is in very good working order (unlike my eyes which is why I spend so much time on trains these days...)
In fact in all my years of travelling by trains on my own (and that started in 1962) I have never come across a seat honking of toilets unless it was ab old Mk1 coach (or earlier) where someone may have "had an accident" into the horse hair. It's probably best not to elaborate on that last point
Finally, whilst I have already agreed that HSTs are more comfortable than the 800s, it has to be said that the acceleration qualities of the 800s are far superior even when running on diesel. They also use about 40% less fuel, which many people may think was a good thing.
Correct, I travel a lot on trains and it's definitely the cross country voyagers which are the worst for the toilet smell. Never had the same problem on Pendalinos.
Regarding HST's, the last GWR 1st class seats (now going to Scot rail) are the best on an train in the UK I would say.,
Regarding HST's, the last GWR 1st class seats (now going to Scot rail) are the best on an train in the UK I would say.,
Currently riding on a cross country.
On the outward journey there was a whiff of the loo but I think it was caused by the failure of the loo door which on the cross country units are electrically operated for disabled assistance.
And to whomever commented on the Paxman engine notes I'm guessing hasn't lived next to the line on an incline where the driver has to get them wound up. I should think anyone living next to the line won't miss the piercing scream
They were great trains, I have happy memories of cycling to the local level crossing to watch the first ones in service fly past.
Oh and the smell of the brakes!
On the outward journey there was a whiff of the loo but I think it was caused by the failure of the loo door which on the cross country units are electrically operated for disabled assistance.
And to whomever commented on the Paxman engine notes I'm guessing hasn't lived next to the line on an incline where the driver has to get them wound up. I should think anyone living next to the line won't miss the piercing scream
They were great trains, I have happy memories of cycling to the local level crossing to watch the first ones in service fly past.
Oh and the smell of the brakes!
Flying Phil said:
I Ironically, we may then have a "preserved" HST on the GCR, going over a "refurbed" HST on the MML!
Preservation can throw up some oddities, like at Smallbrook Junction where some of the steam locomotives in use on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway are newer than the ex-LT Northern Line stock that they connect with on the "real" railway They’re lovely trains. Happy childhood memories of travelling on them-I especially like the low backed EMT seats as they seem the most comfortable to me (in standard class anyway) and as previously noted, the carriage seems a lot more spacious. There’s one in service on the East Coast Mainline which has the old Paxman engines too-sounds glorious!
It’s still one of my childhood dreams to drive one but unfortunately I don’t think it’s going to happen-I’ll have to be content with Electrostars and Class 700’s instead!
It’s still one of my childhood dreams to drive one but unfortunately I don’t think it’s going to happen-I’ll have to be content with Electrostars and Class 700’s instead!
Speaking as a driver who has driven one, it was a bucket list thing to do. Clear Acton main line station on the Down Main and give it the beans. Satisfying to watch the speedo climb round to 125mph. It never 'feels' that fast given the four track layout but look out the side and you are motoring.
I will say they nailed it with the upgrade to first. Shame the 800s are the polar opposite. Maybe tjr worst first class ever to exist or in with a shout. Amazing in the driving cabs
That said my usual 387 stock can smoke a HST pretty much all the way to it's max 110mph
I will say they nailed it with the upgrade to first. Shame the 800s are the polar opposite. Maybe tjr worst first class ever to exist or in with a shout. Amazing in the driving cabs
That said my usual 387 stock can smoke a HST pretty much all the way to it's max 110mph
ianrb said:
The Intercity 225s, in 1st at least, are better.
I agree - and I don't think you need the 'in 1st at least' qualifier. HSTs are excellent, and all the more so from coming out of the very nadir of British Rail (and British industry in general) with a hugely effective design which, without too much hyperbole, saved British Rail (certainly InterCity) from being 'managed decline-d' to death. And the HST was only ever a neglected and under-funded Plan B in case (just in case...) the APT didn't work. Of course that neglect and under-funding is exactly why the HST 'just worked' - because it was a sideshow it was largely ignored by BR management and Whitehall civil servants and therefore made it from concept to reality largely unsullied by people sticking a load of pointless high-tech multi-role s
t on it, as happened when DP2 (one of the most reliable and best-performing locomotives ever on British rails in prototype form) became the Class 50 (one the most unreliable diesel locomotives ever and plagued by nonsense like a fast passenger express locomotive being fitted with slow-speed control, unproven rheostatic braking and experimental air intake/filtration systems that filled the engine compartment with oil mist and dust).But the IC225s are just that little bit better - just as comfortable in terms of seats, a better ride quality, a bit quieter and a bit smoother. Plus that untapped speed potential, of course.
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