W&S Blood Bikes - NHS now paying a contractor !!!
Discussion
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=101571...
https://www.wsbb.org/single-post/2019/03/30/PRESS-...
https://www.wsbb.org
So basically, after a 2 year tendering process (which the Warwichshire & Solihull Blood Bikes were excluded from ... didn't even know about) the NHS has paid for a contract for a company to deliver blood products.
PAID FOR.
A service which the charity has provided for years, completely free of service to the NHS, like all the other blood bike groups around the country.
So as of 1st April, their services will be no longer required ... effectively putting the charity, the bikes, the volunteers, all out of a "job" and putting the WSBB at risk.
I'm ... I'm wordless. In a time when the NHS is supposedly struggling for money, it's now paying for something which the charity thinks has saved £700k over the years.
Is it too trite to say "the world's gone mad" ... ?
https://www.wsbb.org/single-post/2019/03/30/PRESS-...
https://www.wsbb.org
So basically, after a 2 year tendering process (which the Warwichshire & Solihull Blood Bikes were excluded from ... didn't even know about) the NHS has paid for a contract for a company to deliver blood products.
PAID FOR.
A service which the charity has provided for years, completely free of service to the NHS, like all the other blood bike groups around the country.
So as of 1st April, their services will be no longer required ... effectively putting the charity, the bikes, the volunteers, all out of a "job" and putting the WSBB at risk.
I'm ... I'm wordless. In a time when the NHS is supposedly struggling for money, it's now paying for something which the charity thinks has saved £700k over the years.
Is it too trite to say "the world's gone mad" ... ?
poo at Paul's said:
bogie said:
Thats crazy. I would really like to understand the logic of the managers in the NHS who made that decision.
When they get back off their recently booked 7 * hugely expensive holiday to the Maldives, you can ask them ….
te!I am really sorry for the volunteer service here. It's hard but, the fact that they didn't know the service was under a tender processes suggest that they're perhaps not "professional" enough to meet the requirements.
From the point of view of the "evil" NHS manager, they have the responsibility to ensure a service that, if it's not there, can literally be life or death. They need to know that the blood WILL be transported when it's needed, and will be delivered EXACTLY as required. If that doesn't happen, people die!
The only way they can have any degree of control over the associated risks is by having a contract in place with a supplier who is obliged to ensure that the service is available, come hell or high water. The manager must ensure the service is not put in the position of being told "I'm sorry, there's no blood today but the volunteer who should be delivering it is at his Mums birthday party". For such a contract to be put in place the NHS manager will have to have gone through a full PUBLIC tender process. Everyone with an interest in providing such a service, and the legally required requisite structure, insurance etc. has the ability to bid on that tender . There are no restrictions.
If, as a professional organisation, you are putting your organisational neck on the line to GUARANTEE a service where non-delivery could result in death then yes, it's only right that you get paid for that.
black-k1 said:
I assume that, due to the lack of smilies, this is meant as a "dig" at NHS Managers. If so, what a pile of stinking, ill informed ste!
I am really sorry for the volunteer service here. It's hard but, the fact that they didn't know the service was under a tender processes suggest that they're perhaps not "professional" enough to meet the requirements.
From the point of view of the "evil" NHS manager, they have the responsibility to ensure a service that, if it's not there, can literally be life or death. They need to know that the blood WILL be transported when it's needed, and will be delivered EXACTLY as required. If that doesn't happen, people die!
The only way they can have any degree of control over the associated risks is by having a contract in place with a supplier who is obliged to ensure that the service is available, come hell or high water. The manager must ensure the service is not put in the position of being told "I'm sorry, there's no blood today but the volunteer who should be delivering it is at his Mums birthday party". For such a contract to be put in place the NHS manager will have to have gone through a full PUBLIC tender process. Everyone with an interest in providing such a service, and the legally required requisite structure, insurance etc. has the ability to bid on that tender . There are no restrictions.
If, as a professional organisation, you are putting your organisational neck on the line to GUARANTEE a service where non-delivery could result in death then yes, it's only right that you get paid for that.
Total ste!I am really sorry for the volunteer service here. It's hard but, the fact that they didn't know the service was under a tender processes suggest that they're perhaps not "professional" enough to meet the requirements.
From the point of view of the "evil" NHS manager, they have the responsibility to ensure a service that, if it's not there, can literally be life or death. They need to know that the blood WILL be transported when it's needed, and will be delivered EXACTLY as required. If that doesn't happen, people die!
The only way they can have any degree of control over the associated risks is by having a contract in place with a supplier who is obliged to ensure that the service is available, come hell or high water. The manager must ensure the service is not put in the position of being told "I'm sorry, there's no blood today but the volunteer who should be delivering it is at his Mums birthday party". For such a contract to be put in place the NHS manager will have to have gone through a full PUBLIC tender process. Everyone with an interest in providing such a service, and the legally required requisite structure, insurance etc. has the ability to bid on that tender . There are no restrictions.
If, as a professional organisation, you are putting your organisational neck on the line to GUARANTEE a service where non-delivery could result in death then yes, it's only right that you get paid for that.
te.Blood bikes have been doing everything you mention above for years. Without pay.
Are you perhaps one of these un-corruptible NHS managers that live in your world.
jamoor said:
I do wonder if you can complain to someone about poor services if they were providing it for free.
What poor services ? Please qualify the poor services you're referring to ?And even if BB were to not deliver, there's a fall back system. Samples would always get delivered, without fail.
Brads67 said:
black-k1 said:
I assume that, due to the lack of smilies, this is meant as a "dig" at NHS Managers. If so, what a pile of stinking, ill informed ste!
I am really sorry for the volunteer service here. It's hard but, the fact that they didn't know the service was under a tender processes suggest that they're perhaps not "professional" enough to meet the requirements.
From the point of view of the "evil" NHS manager, they have the responsibility to ensure a service that, if it's not there, can literally be life or death. They need to know that the blood WILL be transported when it's needed, and will be delivered EXACTLY as required. If that doesn't happen, people die!
The only way they can have any degree of control over the associated risks is by having a contract in place with a supplier who is obliged to ensure that the service is available, come hell or high water. The manager must ensure the service is not put in the position of being told "I'm sorry, there's no blood today but the volunteer who should be delivering it is at his Mums birthday party". For such a contract to be put in place the NHS manager will have to have gone through a full PUBLIC tender process. Everyone with an interest in providing such a service, and the legally required requisite structure, insurance etc. has the ability to bid on that tender . There are no restrictions.
If, as a professional organisation, you are putting your organisational neck on the line to GUARANTEE a service where non-delivery could result in death then yes, it's only right that you get paid for that.
Total ste!I am really sorry for the volunteer service here. It's hard but, the fact that they didn't know the service was under a tender processes suggest that they're perhaps not "professional" enough to meet the requirements.
From the point of view of the "evil" NHS manager, they have the responsibility to ensure a service that, if it's not there, can literally be life or death. They need to know that the blood WILL be transported when it's needed, and will be delivered EXACTLY as required. If that doesn't happen, people die!
The only way they can have any degree of control over the associated risks is by having a contract in place with a supplier who is obliged to ensure that the service is available, come hell or high water. The manager must ensure the service is not put in the position of being told "I'm sorry, there's no blood today but the volunteer who should be delivering it is at his Mums birthday party". For such a contract to be put in place the NHS manager will have to have gone through a full PUBLIC tender process. Everyone with an interest in providing such a service, and the legally required requisite structure, insurance etc. has the ability to bid on that tender . There are no restrictions.
If, as a professional organisation, you are putting your organisational neck on the line to GUARANTEE a service where non-delivery could result in death then yes, it's only right that you get paid for that.
te.Blood bikes have been doing everything you mention above for years. Without pay.
Are you perhaps one of these un-corruptible NHS managers that live in your world.
If the volunteer blood bike services are really up to the task of delivering the required service (and many are) then they can bid to deliver those services. They're low cost base will ensure that they are already ahead of the competition.
There are already a large number of NHS services delivered by charities under contract so the NHS is already set up to utilise such services.
And no, I'm NOT an NHS manager but I do work with the NHS.
evil len said:
black-k1, I would suggest you look up exactly what the blood bikes do, as you're showing a stunning lack of knowledge on what they are there for and the service we provide with your post.
I am very aware of what they do but you are assuming it's a stand alone service. It's not. Hospital services need to be integrated to ensure maximum efficiency and operational assurance. Is the anger here because you don’t get to play dress up as a policeman anymore? Just been stuck in a ridiculous queue because myopic drivers are being conned by motorbike riders dressed up in wannabe police gear, with all the battenburgs, white helmets and hi-viz doing exactly 70mph.
I have to say that being more serious black-k1 has a good point. There would be uproar if someone died because the volunteers didn’t deliver and questions as to why the NHS was entrusting lives to volunteers with no back up or guarantees in place.
I have to say that being more serious black-k1 has a good point. There would be uproar if someone died because the volunteers didn’t deliver and questions as to why the NHS was entrusting lives to volunteers with no back up or guarantees in place.
Engaging a contractor enables contracts. Contracts enable measurable outcomes and accountability. Measurable outcomes and accountability enables ass covering and blame allocation.
If there was issue, the public will not tolerate the failure of a charity or team of volunteers. They will question why such a vital role is not already under the care of their tax money and the government and therefore regulated in some way because they also want someone to blame. In the same way you wouldn't be happy if all the Police people were volunteers.
If there was issue, the public will not tolerate the failure of a charity or team of volunteers. They will question why such a vital role is not already under the care of their tax money and the government and therefore regulated in some way because they also want someone to blame. In the same way you wouldn't be happy if all the Police people were volunteers.
Lindun said:
Is the anger here because you don’t get to play dress up as a policeman anymore? Just been stuck in a ridiculous queue because myopic drivers are being conned by motorbike riders dressed up in wannabe police gear, with all the battenburgs, white helmets and hi-viz doing exactly 70mph.
I have to say that being more serious black-k1 has a good point. There would be uproar if someone died because the volunteers didn’t deliver and questions as to why the NHS was entrusting lives to volunteers with no back up or guarantees in place.
Another fanny with no idea what blood bikers do.I have to say that being more serious black-k1 has a good point. There would be uproar if someone died because the volunteers didn’t deliver and questions as to why the NHS was entrusting lives to volunteers with no back up or guarantees in place.
PenultimateSpiderman said:
Because as has been shown again and again, contractors to the public sector are entirely infallible and errors are never made.
...And a contract will make them far more accountable to the nhs than a volunteer service.There's obviously a big chunk of information missing from both this thread, and the facebook article.
As a public sector manager (not in the nhs) it's fair to say this decision will have been driven by something specific (probably legal advice) rather than just having spare funds burning a hole in their pocket.
Sad for the volunteers, yes. But there's still lots of ways to volunteer their time to help the NHS, but obviously not involving motorbikes.
black-k1 said:
poo at Paul's said:
bogie said:
Thats crazy. I would really like to understand the logic of the managers in the NHS who made that decision.
When they get back off their recently booked 7 * hugely expensive holiday to the Maldives, you can ask them ….te!I am really sorry for the volunteer service here. It's hard but, the fact that they didn't know the service was under a tender processes suggest that they're perhaps not "professional" enough to meet the requirements.
From the point of view of the "evil" NHS manager, they have the responsibility to ensure a service that, if it's not there, can literally be life or death. They need to know that the blood WILL be transported when it's needed, and will be delivered EXACTLY as required. If that doesn't happen, people die!
The only way they can have any degree of control over the associated risks is by having a contract in place with a supplier who is obliged to ensure that the service is available, come hell or high water. The manager must ensure the service is not put in the position of being told "I'm sorry, there's no blood today but the volunteer who should be delivering it is at his Mums birthday party". For such a contract to be put in place the NHS manager will have to have gone through a full PUBLIC tender process. Everyone with an interest in providing such a service, and the legally required requisite structure, insurance etc. has the ability to bid on that tender . There are no restrictions.
If, as a professional organisation, you are putting your organisational neck on the line to GUARANTEE a service where non-delivery could result in death then yes, it's only right that you get paid for that.
If the decision was made for the reasons above then I would be curious to see the analysis leading to its justification. If the analysis showed that using blood bikes did indeed cause delays to treatment then that's fair enough, they can't give targets and hold people accountable in the same way as a contracted service. I'm not sure that the failure of blood bikes to deliver the service has been quantified?
Brads67 said:
Lindun said:
Is the anger here because you don’t get to play dress up as a policeman anymore? Just been stuck in a ridiculous queue because myopic drivers are being conned by motorbike riders dressed up in wannabe police gear, with all the battenburgs, white helmets and hi-viz doing exactly 70mph.
I have to say that being more serious black-k1 has a good point. There would be uproar if someone died because the volunteers didn’t deliver and questions as to why the NHS was entrusting lives to volunteers with no back up or guarantees in place.
Another fanny with no idea what blood bikers do.I have to say that being more serious black-k1 has a good point. There would be uproar if someone died because the volunteers didn’t deliver and questions as to why the NHS was entrusting lives to volunteers with no back up or guarantees in place.
‘Our mission
We aim to provide a totally free, but professional, voluntary service, out of normal working hours for the transportation of Urgent and Emergency items, e.g. blood, platelets, samples, donor breast milk, patient notes, theatre equipment, in fact anything that can be carried by motorcycle, solely for the benefit of the publicly funded emergency services and the patients being treated by them, within the NHS Hospitals.
We will provide this service through the night, and 24 hours per day at weekends and Bank Holidays, to the best of our ability, enabling hospital funding to be better spent on patient care.
We started operating in May 2012 and as the counter shows the number of call outs we are completing is growing exponentially. Your help in doing this is always appreciated”
https://nwbb-lancs.org/
There’s a lot more stuff, but all of it is summed up as above, lots of “aims”, no definitive measures, targets or accountability. However, there are lots of photos of bikes that are as close as you would ever get to a police bike without actually being one, exactly as I said to begin with.
People volunteering is great, but clearly there is a gap here for an organisation that takes accountability for delivering a service and suffers penalties for failure. The fact that that comes at a cost is an unfortunate side effect, but probably a legal requirement.
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