Is the F117 Nighthawk actually dead?
Discussion
I believe the type was officially retired in 2006 or 2008, but there has been some reports of them flying recently, due to being kept in readiness, but this story from the Scramble page on Facebook indicates that there may be more to it than that, and they are actually still in service.
"Our F-117 Nighthawk scoop continues!
(5 minute read)
Following our F-117 report from 2 March 2019, which was published on our social media (Scramble Facebook News, Twitter and Instagram) and went viral all over the world, we can now publish additional information.
But first, see the original Scramble Facebook News (SFN) report in case you need to refresh your mind:
https://www.facebook.com/Scramblemagazine/posts/26...
Although (and of course) we will not reveal our sources, the following information has never been shared before (except for our Scramble magazine hardcopy - issue 479 - that was published yesterday).
Recent years have seen some peculiar facts related to the Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR), the combined operation to defeat ISIS/Daesh, in and over Iraq and Syria. This operation was largely manned and staffed by USAF personnel, but allied nations were invited to join the operation. During the OIR heydays some 36 countries were involved.
Scramble has spoken to former OIR members (people from at least two other countries than USA) and we can reveal that one F-117A made an emergency landing at the airbase of Ali Al Salem (AAS) in Kuwait during Q4/2016 (AAS is known as the nearest allied fixed wing airfield south of Iraq).
Ever since the beginning of its use by the US and allies, Ali Al Salem is renowned because of its concealed spaces and hide-outs. This is evident when seeing the base on Google Earth. The above mentioned facts are (were) possibly the reasons for using AAS as a Nighthawk alternate or emergency landing base.
During the mentioned landing, which occurred during dawn, the unfortunate Nighthawk was accompanied by its wingman. The latter did not land at AAS, but continued its route to its deployment base. This scene was seen by some lucky OIR personnel. One of these personnel managed to make a poor quality long distance iPhone-picture of the (chase) landing of the two birds, followed by the broken aircraft parked at one of the aprons of AAS. Without any doubt, this was at AAS, as infrastructure characteristics and then deployed aircraft to AAS were clearly identified together with the broken F-117A.
We reported earlier about the Small Diameter Bombs (SDB) in combination with the Nighthawk missions. These weapons were possibly used in deliberate (moving) targeting, in that way the US could minimize casualties during its undisclosed missions deep into Syria in which other US aircraft were not selected (not even stealthy F-22s, maybe because it was too sensitive to send an expensive Raptor that deep into Assads territory). As the F-117s possibly returned due to unfinished business, the Nighthawks were also used over the densely populated Mosul area (with narrow streets and fortified bunkers) during the Battle of Mosul.
This sometimes very technical targeting, in combination with stealth (not necessary in Iraq) and slow speed, was something an F-22, F-15, B-1, B-52 and F-16 were not capable of doing.
As for the SDBs ... this is somewhat questionable if the F-117 indeed used this very smart and precise weapon. As far as we know, the One One Seven was never certified for use of this weapon. Maybe that information is incorrect and as it goes... not all brands of Cola are Coca Cola, but many people order it like that. As the SDB was the weapon of choice in OIR, a verdict is made quite quickly. But ... there is also a possibility that the F-117 was certified to use SDBs during its secretive test flights from Tonopah. And that also makes sense, as the stand-off range of an SDB is limited (some sixty miles), the stealth F-117s could fly closer to their targets in Assad territory - heavily guarded by a massive belt of air defense systems - to drop their weapons on a target.
As for the quantity of F-117As deployed we have been told that there were at least four aircraft involved. The deployment base was most probably in Qatar or Saudi Arabia. We can confirm that they flew only during nighttime and strikingly, they used call sign: HELI. This name was most probably chosen as HELI gave less attention in the Air Tasking Order (ATO) of OIR that is observed by many military. As known, several (secretive) helicopter operations also took place throughout the whole OIR area of operations. Strikingly, the F-117 flight through Death Valley used LEHI as call sign.
For now, with the vanishing of most terrorists (ISIS) from Iraqi and Syrian territory, it seems that the USAF found, once again, an opportunity to show the Nighthawk in the open. Flying low and slow buzzing Death Valley, with even a waving pilot in its office, the pilot knew he and his fantastic aircraft were watched and photographed by some very lucky people!
An educated guess of Scramble is that these out-in-the-open flights could possibly mean (again, it is just an educated guess) that the test flights of the F-117s have ended and this was a kind of unofficial farewell flight.
Hopefully, again more information will become available in the near future, and hopefully our educated guess is wrong!
Scramble editorial note: The owner of the iPhone is trustworthy. Unfortunately, he was not allowed to give us the pictures of AAS as scrupulous rules were given to all AAS and OIR personnel about the emergency landing at that time. (but we can assure you, although of poor quality, they looked adrenaline-kicking great!). Following the F-117s flights through Death Valley, the involved person consulted a high ranking OIR commander who gave permission to publish the aforementioned words."
"Our F-117 Nighthawk scoop continues!
(5 minute read)
Following our F-117 report from 2 March 2019, which was published on our social media (Scramble Facebook News, Twitter and Instagram) and went viral all over the world, we can now publish additional information.
But first, see the original Scramble Facebook News (SFN) report in case you need to refresh your mind:
https://www.facebook.com/Scramblemagazine/posts/26...
Although (and of course) we will not reveal our sources, the following information has never been shared before (except for our Scramble magazine hardcopy - issue 479 - that was published yesterday).
Recent years have seen some peculiar facts related to the Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR), the combined operation to defeat ISIS/Daesh, in and over Iraq and Syria. This operation was largely manned and staffed by USAF personnel, but allied nations were invited to join the operation. During the OIR heydays some 36 countries were involved.
Scramble has spoken to former OIR members (people from at least two other countries than USA) and we can reveal that one F-117A made an emergency landing at the airbase of Ali Al Salem (AAS) in Kuwait during Q4/2016 (AAS is known as the nearest allied fixed wing airfield south of Iraq).
Ever since the beginning of its use by the US and allies, Ali Al Salem is renowned because of its concealed spaces and hide-outs. This is evident when seeing the base on Google Earth. The above mentioned facts are (were) possibly the reasons for using AAS as a Nighthawk alternate or emergency landing base.
During the mentioned landing, which occurred during dawn, the unfortunate Nighthawk was accompanied by its wingman. The latter did not land at AAS, but continued its route to its deployment base. This scene was seen by some lucky OIR personnel. One of these personnel managed to make a poor quality long distance iPhone-picture of the (chase) landing of the two birds, followed by the broken aircraft parked at one of the aprons of AAS. Without any doubt, this was at AAS, as infrastructure characteristics and then deployed aircraft to AAS were clearly identified together with the broken F-117A.
We reported earlier about the Small Diameter Bombs (SDB) in combination with the Nighthawk missions. These weapons were possibly used in deliberate (moving) targeting, in that way the US could minimize casualties during its undisclosed missions deep into Syria in which other US aircraft were not selected (not even stealthy F-22s, maybe because it was too sensitive to send an expensive Raptor that deep into Assads territory). As the F-117s possibly returned due to unfinished business, the Nighthawks were also used over the densely populated Mosul area (with narrow streets and fortified bunkers) during the Battle of Mosul.
This sometimes very technical targeting, in combination with stealth (not necessary in Iraq) and slow speed, was something an F-22, F-15, B-1, B-52 and F-16 were not capable of doing.
As for the SDBs ... this is somewhat questionable if the F-117 indeed used this very smart and precise weapon. As far as we know, the One One Seven was never certified for use of this weapon. Maybe that information is incorrect and as it goes... not all brands of Cola are Coca Cola, but many people order it like that. As the SDB was the weapon of choice in OIR, a verdict is made quite quickly. But ... there is also a possibility that the F-117 was certified to use SDBs during its secretive test flights from Tonopah. And that also makes sense, as the stand-off range of an SDB is limited (some sixty miles), the stealth F-117s could fly closer to their targets in Assad territory - heavily guarded by a massive belt of air defense systems - to drop their weapons on a target.
As for the quantity of F-117As deployed we have been told that there were at least four aircraft involved. The deployment base was most probably in Qatar or Saudi Arabia. We can confirm that they flew only during nighttime and strikingly, they used call sign: HELI. This name was most probably chosen as HELI gave less attention in the Air Tasking Order (ATO) of OIR that is observed by many military. As known, several (secretive) helicopter operations also took place throughout the whole OIR area of operations. Strikingly, the F-117 flight through Death Valley used LEHI as call sign.
For now, with the vanishing of most terrorists (ISIS) from Iraqi and Syrian territory, it seems that the USAF found, once again, an opportunity to show the Nighthawk in the open. Flying low and slow buzzing Death Valley, with even a waving pilot in its office, the pilot knew he and his fantastic aircraft were watched and photographed by some very lucky people!
An educated guess of Scramble is that these out-in-the-open flights could possibly mean (again, it is just an educated guess) that the test flights of the F-117s have ended and this was a kind of unofficial farewell flight.
Hopefully, again more information will become available in the near future, and hopefully our educated guess is wrong!
Scramble editorial note: The owner of the iPhone is trustworthy. Unfortunately, he was not allowed to give us the pictures of AAS as scrupulous rules were given to all AAS and OIR personnel about the emergency landing at that time. (but we can assure you, although of poor quality, they looked adrenaline-kicking great!). Following the F-117s flights through Death Valley, the involved person consulted a high ranking OIR commander who gave permission to publish the aforementioned words."
The War Zone have had a series of excellent articles on the F117 and their continued flying:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26728/lets-t...
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26662/behold...
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26728/lets-t...
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/26662/behold...
In about 2006, I am convinced I saw one just briefly manuvering over Northern Ireland on a clear night. My dad was driving and I was looking up at the sky. The moonlight lit up the bottom of a triangular shaped aircraft. Possibly something else but I like to think it might have been one.
mike74 said:
So are the latest stealth aircraft stealthier than the f117?
Even though the latest ones are more of a conventional shape?
By the time the F117 was flying they already knew that you didn't need the faceted design to be stealthy, ironically thanks to some research done in Russia that apparently the Russians hadn't continued far enough to realise the significance of. I'd definitely recommend Ben Rich's book Skunk Works, he worked on the U2 and SR71 and was director of of Lockheed Skunk Works for the F117 programme.Even though the latest ones are more of a conventional shape?
RizzoTheRat said:
mike74 said:
So are the latest stealth aircraft stealthier than the f117?
Even though the latest ones are more of a conventional shape?
By the time the F117 was flying they already knew that you didn't need the faceted design to be stealthy, ironically thanks to some research done in Russia that apparently the Russians hadn't continued far enough to realise the significance of. I'd definitely recommend Ben Rich's book Skunk Works, he worked on the U2 and SR71 and was director of of Lockheed Skunk Works for the F117 programme.Even though the latest ones are more of a conventional shape?
mike74 said:
So are the latest stealth aircraft stealthier than the f117?
Even though the latest ones are more of a conventional shape?
There was an interesting article I read the other day that highlighted the point that the F117A was designed to be stealthy against the particular frequency ranges of radar in use at the time. More modern radars operating at different frequencies were more likely to pick it up.Even though the latest ones are more of a conventional shape?
Newer air-frames were designed to work better against a wider spectrum
It also required canned routing (mentioned in the skunkworks book) around radar sites, whereas the F35 had on the fly routing that could adapt and re-route as new emitters turned on.
The Blue ships were flying in the late 70's I believe.
Interesting that they would keep a few to fly, but not surprising, they kept 71's running for years and the yanks even bought a Tupolev Konkordski for research, so nothing shocks me about the US military in terms of what they say.
The art of cloak and dagger was easy back when people didn't have cell phones and internet, ot so easy now.
What I wonder is what they are doing and using it for? Mapping? Recce? What was that flaying back and forth all about at a certain height? Data gathering maybe
Interesting that they would keep a few to fly, but not surprising, they kept 71's running for years and the yanks even bought a Tupolev Konkordski for research, so nothing shocks me about the US military in terms of what they say.
The art of cloak and dagger was easy back when people didn't have cell phones and internet, ot so easy now.
What I wonder is what they are doing and using it for? Mapping? Recce? What was that flaying back and forth all about at a certain height? Data gathering maybe
My understanding is that the main reason the F117 were retired was because they were such an expensive SOAB to maintain in terms of actually being stealthy. As a gen1 stealth aircraft, all sorts of bodges and fixes were used to keep the airframes RCS low, like special tapes, sealants, paints, and very tightly fitted tolerances between things like landing gear doors etc. As such, minor issues, that have no effect on how the plane actually flies effectively render it visible to radar, which means it looses it's raison d'être ....
From what I remember of the time there was always speculation that they'd get partly used in the Aggressor role for red flag hence them being mothballed at one of the strips near Nellis AFB. Having not seen a single picture of them taking part since retiring I guess it remained speculation.
Z06George said:
From what I remember of the time there was always speculation that they'd get partly used in the Aggressor role for red flag hence them being mothballed at one of the strips near Nellis AFB.
The reason they were "retired" to Tonopah AB was because the dedicated and specialised infrastructure and support was already there for them, as thats where they had all been operated from for over a decade until after GW1.After GW1 they operated from Holloman AFB, but the special F-117 infrastructure was retained at Tonopah, hence the decision to mothball the fleet to there after official retirement.
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