Jallianwallah Bagh Massacre - Anniversary
Discussion
I hadn't realised that today was the 100 year anniversary of the massacre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_mas...
The first time I remember hearing about it was when i watched "Jewel in the Crown" in the early 1980's, also the first time that I realised we weren't always the "Good Guys".....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_mas...
The first time I remember hearing about it was when i watched "Jewel in the Crown" in the early 1980's, also the first time that I realised we weren't always the "Good Guys".....
As the PM said it’s a shameful scar on British history.
However should Britain formally apologise for it as Corbyn and many other MPs have called for? It would open up a massive can of worms as you’d then have to offer countless formal apologies for crimes during the times of the empire.
Also, I think it’s quite ironic that the Indians continue to push for an apology yet if you look at their own recent history their military have been just as barbaric at times when it’s come to quashing internal dissent.
However should Britain formally apologise for it as Corbyn and many other MPs have called for? It would open up a massive can of worms as you’d then have to offer countless formal apologies for crimes during the times of the empire.
Also, I think it’s quite ironic that the Indians continue to push for an apology yet if you look at their own recent history their military have been just as barbaric at times when it’s come to quashing internal dissent.
Funny that the original "Bloody Sunday" massacre at Croke Park in Dublin (1920) was very close in time to this event.
And also, the officer (Reginald Dyer) who ordered the shootings in India was of Irish extraction.
And the governor of Punjab Province at the time - who supported Dyer's actions, Michael O' Dwyer, was actually Irish (Tipperary).
We never learned about this in Irish history I can tell you.
And also, the officer (Reginald Dyer) who ordered the shootings in India was of Irish extraction.
And the governor of Punjab Province at the time - who supported Dyer's actions, Michael O' Dwyer, was actually Irish (Tipperary).
We never learned about this in Irish history I can tell you.
Completely agree with the above in that it is inappropriate for a modern government to appologise for the actions of a mad dog military leader 100 years ago.
However, it is important to acknowledge historical wrongdoings as we have- unlike the Turks who consistently deny responsibility of those Armenian massacres.
However, it is important to acknowledge historical wrongdoings as we have- unlike the Turks who consistently deny responsibility of those Armenian massacres.
For God's sake it was 100 years ago why are they still milking it?. Why are they wanting apologies from people who weren't even born when it happened?
It wasn't as though Dyer's actions were even authorised by the British he was a loose cannon who got court-martialled afterwards.
About 350 Sikhs were killed at the Jallianbagh massacre , over 10,000 were killed in anti-Sikh pogroms in 1984 in which the Indian Government were complicit, but obviously this was Indian killing Indian so keep it quiet as it dosn't fit the anti-colonial narrative.
Nor does the estimated 2 million who died in the Punjab after partition when the Indians and Pakistanis slaughtered each other like goats. Where's their memorial? When's their day of remembrance? Who's saying sorry about that?
It wasn't as though Dyer's actions were even authorised by the British he was a loose cannon who got court-martialled afterwards.
About 350 Sikhs were killed at the Jallianbagh massacre , over 10,000 were killed in anti-Sikh pogroms in 1984 in which the Indian Government were complicit, but obviously this was Indian killing Indian so keep it quiet as it dosn't fit the anti-colonial narrative.
Nor does the estimated 2 million who died in the Punjab after partition when the Indians and Pakistanis slaughtered each other like goats. Where's their memorial? When's their day of remembrance? Who's saying sorry about that?
konark said:
For God's sake it was 100 years ago why are they still milking it?. Why are they wanting apologies from people who weren't even born when it happened?
Because we should learn from history. We should also know that British people commit atrocities - unlike what you are taught.JIMMYJ4ZZ said:
No one today is responsible for the actions of their forefathers, and, by association, nor can they apologise for them. The state cannot repent as it is an intangible entity and any attempt to is effectively worthless; it doesnt change history.
Regardless, every human should make it their business to recognise and learn from historical events, ensuring that mistakes are learnt from, and atrocities are never repeated.
This matters now, more than ever, with the rampant resurfacing of jingoism and the declining acknowledgment of the atrocities of relatively recent history.
Regardless, every human should make it their business to recognise and learn from historical events, ensuring that mistakes are learnt from, and atrocities are never repeated.
This matters now, more than ever, with the rampant resurfacing of jingoism and the declining acknowledgment of the atrocities of relatively recent history.
Tannedbaldhead said:
Wonder how the "it was a hundred years ago ffs" brigade would react if some said "What's all the fuss about" the the centenary of WW1 was being commemorated.
They're all dead... boom...... it don't mean nothing. Forget about it.
Did we ask for apologies from the Germans in 2014 or last year?They're all dead... boom...... it don't mean nothing. Forget about it.
marksx said:
'at the time' are the key words there.
History is important and nations sometimes need to be reminded that their version of history may not be the whole story. That's why I mentioned the Irish aspect of this massacre. The Irish have conveniently buried down a large memory hole the Irish involvement in administering the British Empire. The Irish narrative is that Ireland was a "victim"! of British oppression (which is true up to a point). But it also partook in some of that oppression - both in Ireland and other more far flung corners of the Empire.
History is always more complex and subtle than the history taught to us in school sometimes intimates.
In the big scheme of things, 100 years is not that long ago and there will be people living today who have direct links through parents and grandparents with those alive at that time.
Eric Mc said:
marksx said:
'at the time' are the key words there.
History is important and nations sometimes need to be reminded that their version of history may not be the whole story. That's why I mentioned the Irish aspect of this massacre. The Irish have conveniently buried down a large memory hole the Irish involvement in administering the British Empire. The Irish narrative is that Ireland was a "victim"! of British oppression (which is true up to a point). But it also partook in some of that oppression - both in Ireland and other more far flung corners of the Empire.
History is always more complex and subtle than the history taught to us in school sometimes intimates.
In the big scheme of things, 100 years is not that long ago and there will be people living today who have direct links through parents and grandparents with those alive at that time.
Social attitudes have changed massively in 100 years. I imagine there are relatively few people today who really believe that colonialism was a great thing. Much as everyone loves to castigate the UK for various things, we've generally learnt from our mistakes.
If Britain apologises for this massacre then surely you’d have to apologise for the Bengal Famine too. And we can’t blame that one on a rogue general - the decision making then went right to the top.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1...
Should Turkey apologise for the Ottoman Empire
Should U.K. France and USA apologise for drawing up the country lines of the Middle East
Should the West apologise for creating Israel in another countries land without their prior agreement
What timescale? Is 200 years too much how about 120/150 Boar War?
The definition and who dictates that definition is the challenge.
Lastly what benefit does it give?
Should U.K. France and USA apologise for drawing up the country lines of the Middle East
Should the West apologise for creating Israel in another countries land without their prior agreement
What timescale? Is 200 years too much how about 120/150 Boar War?
The definition and who dictates that definition is the challenge.
Lastly what benefit does it give?
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