Track day advice

[dern]

Morning. I did a track day at Bedford yesterday in the novices which I loved but there's definitely some stuff I could do better. Don't get me wrong, I had a brilliant time but I would like to be quicker.

The bike is a mostly standard cbr1000rr 2007 with any 20k on it. It has a micron exhaust and I had the baffle in. It's well serviced and I changed to fork oil two weeks ago. The tyres are Bridgestone t30 evos which I know aren't track tyres but I really like them and they're used at Ron Haslams school so they can't be total dog st.

The issue is that I'm getting totally blown past going on to the straight. I know I'm being conservative on the throttle as I come out of the corners so I'll have to work on that but I noticed that I'm having difficulty getting full throttle... my wrist just doesn't have that much movement any more. My top speed doesn't seem to match similar bikes even though I'm changing at the red line. I'm hitting 130 at the end of the straight and not even getting in to 6th. I'm guessing a quick action throttle would sort this out, will it have any downsides or is it a no brainer?

In the slower to medium corners, despite the tyres, the bike feels comparable to everything else. It feels really good and even (very) small slides are not too alarming. I hold the same speed as most other stuff. In the faster corners I just lack the bottle at the moment but that'll come.

I know I need to improve my body strength but my lines feel great. Looking ahead around the corner and moving on the bike feels really good although improving my fitness will help with all of this.

Any advice on how to improve? Can't wait until the next one.

Cheers.

[DuraAce]

QA throttle made a lot of difference for me. A combination of old age and a bike with a wide throttle movement meant it was 2 distinct movements to go from trailing to full throttle.

[Garybee]

A couple of things in your OP don't add up:-

dern said:

My top speed doesn't seem to match similar bikes even though I'm changing at the red line. I'm hitting 130 at the end of the straight and not even getting in to 6th.

I've only done a handful of track days and am not an experienced biker, but I can't see how this can be the case. I have an '09 blade (so probably similarish gearing) and I wouldn't be in 5th at that speed. It's borderline for getting in to 4th I think.

[dern]

Garybee said:

I've only done a handful of track days and am not an experienced biker, but I can't see how this can be the case. I have an '09 blade (so probably similarish gearing) and I wouldn't be in 5th at that speed. It's borderline for getting in to 4th I think.

I think you're right and I'm probably short shifting to 4th and 5th as I'm so unused to physically being at that speed.

[seveb]

Get some training. Forget the bike - it's way faster than you are right now, even a bone stock cbr600rr with touring tyres will get you well into the fast group so focus on you. It's a massive subject but do some training, it'll be well worth the money and the best upgrade you can do.

[knitware]

dern said:

The issue is that I'm getting totally blown past going on to the straight. I know I'm being conservative on the throttle as I come out of the corners

Forget the bike, it's the rider.

What are you looking at going into the corners, the road directly in front of your wheel or the turn in then up at the apex onto corner exit? What gear are you in going into the corners, tight corners 1st gear, especially on a fireblade, all others 2nd. and when you see the corner opening up, pin the throttle. : )

My 1st track day all photos showed my eyes looking at the road directly in front of the front wheel, I was braking way before anyone else into a corner, I was in too high a gear and gently easing out, every one wizzed passed. I had an S1000RR and I was being overtaken by supermotos' so forget what bike you're on. My mate was on a BMW GS1200 giving some sports bikes hassle in the fast group, bonkers, I should be the fast man, no way, too terrified, no training.

The difference I made was getting some skills, I'm no way near a fast rider but I have more confidence thanks to California Superbike school and Silverstone masterclass and loads of track time, look up! I'm back on track next month on a KTM 1290 GT, I'll be on track with superbikes, nakeds, tourers etc.

[dern]

Thanks for the advice. Got another day at Bedford booked in three weeks and have booked some tuition for a session. I did a days track training with the IAM (don't laugh, it was very useful) and have another one at Thruxton with them in six weeks so I think I'm looking the right way. Admittedly I'm not doing that *all* the time and it does feel much more natural when I am looking where I want to go...

Edited by dern on Sunday 14th April 22:48

[CaptainSlow]

I ride Bedford a fair bit. That last corner before the straight is quite tight (go easy on cold tyres) so you need to open up on the throttle hard when out of it. I can do 145 on my 600 on the straight...a Fireblade should be over 160. There's lots of time to brake at the end.

[dern]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think so, I'm getting in to second on the way in which I was happy with. I guess there's a good chance everyone who was faster was in first but that felt uncomfortable to me at this time.

On the plus side, with the benefit of another night's sleep and some perspective. Out of a group of about 25 (guess) there were probably about 7 or 8 bikes that came past me, a bit less that I regularly went past and the rest were I assume circulating at more or less the same speed. Certainly I was able to comfortable hang on to people who looked like they were going at a pace I'd be happy with if that makes sense.

Anyway, first of the year and first full proper track day so loads to be happy about and loads to build on. Loved it.

[Slipperywang]

Go get training at ron haslam school! If you are loosing out on the straights chances are you aren't getting on the throttle early enough, which could be the lines you take through corners are keeping you at full lean for longer then needed. Also make sure you are in the right gear!

[CAPP0]

seveb said:

Get some training. Forget the bike - it's way faster than you are right now, even a bone stock cbr600rr with touring tyres will get you well into the fast group so focus on you. It's a massive subject but do some training, it'll be well worth the money and the best upgrade you can do.

This all day. If we were all honest with ourselves, there's probably just a small handful of BBers who can completely outride a modern 1000cc road sportsbike (and I'm not one of them!).

Similarly to a poster above, I'm no expert either, and I'm looking to get back on track this year after about 10 years off, but I've had a fair bit of coaching in the past and would offer a couple of comments:

- in the pic you posted, your body position is not great. You look very stiff, not relaxed (understandable but needs fixing!), and you're both very upright, and not hung off much. None of the above is going to help your corner speed, in or out.

- once you get more relaxed you can start picking the bike up (ie getting the bike more upright while you're still hanging off) as you exit the corner which means you can get a better drive onto the straights and ergo higher top speeds.

IME Haslam will help you build confidence (easily my fastest lap ever around Donny was tagging my instructor and trusting him when he said "stay with me, I know you can ride at the pace I'm going to set) but you need something like California Superbike School for building actual skills and understanding why you're doing certain things, such as the thing I mentioned above about picking the bike up. Do Haslam first then start working through the CSS schedules.

[Dakkon]

Not to add anything of any value, but let me know which trackdays you are doing and I will try to pop along too, work / family permitting.

[dern]

CAPP0 said:

This all day. If we were all honest with ourselves, there's probably just a small handful of BBers who can completely outride a modern 1000cc road sportsbike (and I'm not one of them!).

Similarly to a poster above, I'm no expert either, and I'm looking to get back on track this year after about 10 years off, but I've had a fair bit of coaching in the past and would offer a couple of comments:

- in the pic you posted, your body position is not great. You look very stiff, not relaxed (understandable but needs fixing!), and you're both very upright, and not hung off much. None of the above is going to help your corner speed, in or out.

- once you get more relaxed you can start picking the bike up (ie getting the bike more upright while you're still hanging off) as you exit the corner which means you can get a better drive onto the straights and ergo higher top speeds.

IME Haslam will help you build confidence (easily my fastest lap ever around Donny was tagging my instructor and trusting him when he said "stay with me, I know you can ride at the pace I'm going to set) but you need something like California Superbike School for building actual skills and understanding why you're doing certain things, such as the thing I mentioned above about picking the bike up. Do Haslam first then start working through the CSS schedules.

Good advice, thanks. Yes, felt very stiff on the day, need to work on my fitness and flexibility and get the movement working better. Hopefully next time I'll be wearing less in the way of thermals too

[dern]

Dakkon said:

Not to add anything of any value, but let me know which trackdays you are doing and I will try to pop along too, work / family permitting.

Hi, I'm next booked in to the road only day and Bedford run by MSV on Saturday 4th May...

https://www.msvtrackdays.com/bike/calendar/2019/ma...

I've booked myself in to the novice 2 group.

[robinh73]

See if you can book onto a James Whitham track day. They are normally small groups with much more track time and also dedicated instructors, most of whom race at BSB level.
The other thing I would say is don't overthink it all. It does take time to build up pace, but thinking about it or worrying about it when on track will only slow you down. Tyres are the most crucial thing, as they are what keeps you upright, followed by suspension. Get some pure track tyres (not Pirellis as they are useless for life) and get the suspension set up for your weight, then head out and see how the bike feels. Speak to an instructor and explain how you find the bike under power and braking, let them do the physics of it.
You have a good bike, I did my first track day on my 2005 Blade back in 2006 and started racing a few months later as a result. The Blade is a very solid performer, decent power (but not too much), a good chassis and dependable.

[Dakkon]

Don't do a Hopp Rider day, they are not great if you want specific feedback for your riding.

[dern]

Back at Bedford again. Fitted a QA throttle and it's helping me a lot. Also did some tuition which helped with body positioning. I'm right out in the wind apparently in the straights and tucking in a bit combined with the QA is showing me 150 on the straights. Clearly a lot more to come.

Cornering is also getting much better.