First Porsche - 996 or Cayman?
Discussion
The only Porsche I have ever owned were a wide arched 914 and a 924 Lux, both of which were many moons ago. More recently I have been looking at 996 (as always fancied a 911 and missed the boat on anything air cooled), specifically a manual, non sunroof, LSD equipped 996 in silver, for circa £12 - 15K.
I've also noticed that the same budget could get me a tidy Cayman, although I know very little about them other than they look good in white.
So what would you buy for a £15K maximum? Would you buy privately or opt for a dealer with a warranty?
Something like this...
https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/listings/porsch...
Thanks in advance.
I've also noticed that the same budget could get me a tidy Cayman, although I know very little about them other than they look good in white.
So what would you buy for a £15K maximum? Would you buy privately or opt for a dealer with a warranty?
Something like this...
https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/listings/porsch...
Thanks in advance.
If you're seriously considering a 996 please, please please buy one which has already had a Hartech rebuild. The engines are made of chocolate and I'm fairly confident that eventually they all will need rebuilding so it's best to have one that the previous owner has spent £10K on stuff.
I can't speak with any great authority on Caymans but from what I've read but they <certainly the early ones> have suffered similar engine issues.
If you're hoping for the reliability that you were used to with the 914 and 924 I suspect you'll be sorely disappointed.
Sorry to urinate on your french fries.
I can't speak with any great authority on Caymans but from what I've read but they <certainly the early ones> have suffered similar engine issues.
If you're hoping for the reliability that you were used to with the 914 and 924 I suspect you'll be sorely disappointed.
Sorry to urinate on your french fries.
Both are great cars, go drive at least one of each to get a feel for which you prefer.
You can read all day on various forums about the engine issues suffered with both these cars and I'd suggest you do so. Statistically, I suspect the early Cayman S is the most likely to have a major engine issue, with a 2.7 being a safer, if rather slower bet. With 996's, a 3.4 is probably a slightly better bet than a 3.6. Equally there are plenty of both cars out there on high mileages which have never suffered an IMS failure or cylinder scoring.
I'd suggest these cars are rather cheap for what they are, and the known engine issues have probably helped keep the prices low. Go in with eyes open - whether you pay more for a car with a rebuilt engine or less for one without is of course your choice, just make it with as much knowledge as you can.
Personally, I would (and did) go for a 996.
You can read all day on various forums about the engine issues suffered with both these cars and I'd suggest you do so. Statistically, I suspect the early Cayman S is the most likely to have a major engine issue, with a 2.7 being a safer, if rather slower bet. With 996's, a 3.4 is probably a slightly better bet than a 3.6. Equally there are plenty of both cars out there on high mileages which have never suffered an IMS failure or cylinder scoring.
I'd suggest these cars are rather cheap for what they are, and the known engine issues have probably helped keep the prices low. Go in with eyes open - whether you pay more for a car with a rebuilt engine or less for one without is of course your choice, just make it with as much knowledge as you can.
Personally, I would (and did) go for a 996.
If I was in your position, I would try to find a nice privately owned 996, which has had no expense spared. The issue with the prices on the 996 is that they are still a circa 70-80k+ car to maintain and you do not want an example that has be run on the cheap..
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Something like this?
G
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Something like this?
G
Thanks for the response guys.
It's a 911 that I've always wanted, so it's probably the 996 I should go for. I just like the looks of the Cayman, especially in white, but am starting to think buying one would be a mistake on my part.
I'm coming from a running M3's (possibly) so know the potential running costs for older performance cars, hence my questions here.
It's a 911 that I've always wanted, so it's probably the 996 I should go for. I just like the looks of the Cayman, especially in white, but am starting to think buying one would be a mistake on my part.
I'm coming from a running M3's (possibly) so know the potential running costs for older performance cars, hence my questions here.
The Cayman vs 911 thing is a purely personal choice. I've never been able to overcome my aversion to the 911 rear engine layout so opted for the Cayman. Having owned two 987 Gen 1 S cars over a number of years and read just about everything on the internet about them on a daily basis for 10 years or more, I would be happy to own another. I actually prefer them to the 981S I have at the moment but that's another story.
However, I'd be careful to either make sure I was buying one that wasn't already bore scored, or came with a warranty that covered that scenario. In the latter case, there are very limited options as there are very few sold by the OPC network nowadays and most aftermarket warranties won't cover it. A few independents offer a decent in-house warranty but you'd need to be lucky finding the car you want at such a dealer. I'd prefer a private sale from a long term enthusiast owner who could convince me about the oil consumption rate and trend and how it had been treated. I also would not take for granted that a rebuilt motor is guaranteed to be sound without digging into the nature of the rebuild and subsequent owner history/usage.
I know there are people who have suffered bore scoring, Cmoose amongst them, but I honestly believe that if you start off with a good one, understand the risk factors and treat them correctly, you shouldn't have a problem. Whilst some will say, why expose yourself to any risk, I'd say that at £12-15k, there's nothing else that comes close.
However, I'd be careful to either make sure I was buying one that wasn't already bore scored, or came with a warranty that covered that scenario. In the latter case, there are very limited options as there are very few sold by the OPC network nowadays and most aftermarket warranties won't cover it. A few independents offer a decent in-house warranty but you'd need to be lucky finding the car you want at such a dealer. I'd prefer a private sale from a long term enthusiast owner who could convince me about the oil consumption rate and trend and how it had been treated. I also would not take for granted that a rebuilt motor is guaranteed to be sound without digging into the nature of the rebuild and subsequent owner history/usage.
I know there are people who have suffered bore scoring, Cmoose amongst them, but I honestly believe that if you start off with a good one, understand the risk factors and treat them correctly, you shouldn't have a problem. Whilst some will say, why expose yourself to any risk, I'd say that at £12-15k, there's nothing else that comes close.
Whilst I haven’t had a Cayman, I’ve a good friend whose had one for 2-3 yrs as a second car & he’s now looking to get back into a 911 (albeit an early 997). You’re comparing possibly early 911s that are 7 yrs older than the earliest Caymans & hence the extra 7 or so years can ultimately generate greater maintenance bills on wear and tear parts.
It’s already been alluded that you should ideally buy a car from an enthusiast whose maintained it to the manufacturers’ service intervals regardless of how little miles the car has covered. If buying a 996, I’d suggest you either buy from a proper enthusiast whose got piles on invoices for the work carried out to support their ownership or from a proper Porsche specialist whose not afraid to spend some proper £s on sales prep including possibly full brakes, clutch RMS etc. etc. & to back it with their own in-house warranty such as the likes of Northway, 911V, Portiacraft & RPM Technik as an example.
To give a balanced approach on early 996 reliability, my current car is having an engine rebuild necessitated by a worn gudgeon pin on an engine that’s done 80k miles (bought with 75k & FSH) & yet I’ve 2 friends with a 3.4 & 3.6 respectively & they’ve been reliable other than items such as water pumps etc & normal maintenance/upgrading with the . I’ve taken the opportunity whilst my engine is out to do other work to negate in man maths the cost of the engine work by saving labour on items that could be due in the next 3-4 yrs I.e. replacement clutch/flywheel, brake pipes over the engine, RMS & IMS & low temperature thermostat etc. etc.
I think the 996 market values softened slightly late last year BTW. IMO you should look for an owner/specialist whose not been shy on spending on their car to get it ready to sell (who doesn’t try & run it on a Fiesta sized budget) & whose happy to have a detailed PPI including a proper borescope test. Good luck with your decision/search.
It’s already been alluded that you should ideally buy a car from an enthusiast whose maintained it to the manufacturers’ service intervals regardless of how little miles the car has covered. If buying a 996, I’d suggest you either buy from a proper enthusiast whose got piles on invoices for the work carried out to support their ownership or from a proper Porsche specialist whose not afraid to spend some proper £s on sales prep including possibly full brakes, clutch RMS etc. etc. & to back it with their own in-house warranty such as the likes of Northway, 911V, Portiacraft & RPM Technik as an example.
To give a balanced approach on early 996 reliability, my current car is having an engine rebuild necessitated by a worn gudgeon pin on an engine that’s done 80k miles (bought with 75k & FSH) & yet I’ve 2 friends with a 3.4 & 3.6 respectively & they’ve been reliable other than items such as water pumps etc & normal maintenance/upgrading with the . I’ve taken the opportunity whilst my engine is out to do other work to negate in man maths the cost of the engine work by saving labour on items that could be due in the next 3-4 yrs I.e. replacement clutch/flywheel, brake pipes over the engine, RMS & IMS & low temperature thermostat etc. etc.
I think the 996 market values softened slightly late last year BTW. IMO you should look for an owner/specialist whose not been shy on spending on their car to get it ready to sell (who doesn’t try & run it on a Fiesta sized budget) & whose happy to have a detailed PPI including a proper borescope test. Good luck with your decision/search.
You’ll be very lucky to find a 996 and sort any issues (there will be issues) for £15k. Prevailing wisdom is it’s a £20k car. You’d be amazingly lucky to find one in your preferred spec, sorted, within budget. Don’t let that stop you looking - they are incredible value (I should know, I’ve just sold mine and am struggling to find something different to replace it) but be realistic about the market, what’s available and your requirements.
If its a 996 you really want then go for it.
However you will get a much newer and possibly better spec Cayman for similar/less money.
Im selling my Cayman at the moment as 2 seats no longer works for me.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Its over your budget but its very well looked after, has had a lot of money spent on it. There were much cheaper options when i got this but you generally get what you pay for.
However you will get a much newer and possibly better spec Cayman for similar/less money.
Im selling my Cayman at the moment as 2 seats no longer works for me.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Its over your budget but its very well looked after, has had a lot of money spent on it. There were much cheaper options when i got this but you generally get what you pay for.
I had the same thoughts six months ago. Cayman, Boxster or 911. Same budget too. I knew that if I brought a younger Cayman or Boxster I would always want a 911. Having had plenty of different sports cars as weekend toys over the years I thought I would go for the 996 and pay £15000.
I looked privately and via the few (and there are just a few) decent Independent Porsche dealers that not just sell but also have a good reputation for servicing etc of Porsche cars like the 996.
Mine cost £15000 and came with 6 months warranty. It has a massive history file and 60k on the clock. It is a 2000 C2 manual with sunroof. The Independent and I went right through it before I brought it and it is immaculate. I have done 3000 miles no oil leaks no dramas.
Do I worry about the engine blowing up. I little bit but check the oil and look at the real stats rather than the fear factor ones and enjoy what is a great car. My Independant has an identical one for sale at the moment and they prepared mine with real detail.
Buy a 996 as if you don’t you will always want one.
Steve
I looked privately and via the few (and there are just a few) decent Independent Porsche dealers that not just sell but also have a good reputation for servicing etc of Porsche cars like the 996.
Mine cost £15000 and came with 6 months warranty. It has a massive history file and 60k on the clock. It is a 2000 C2 manual with sunroof. The Independent and I went right through it before I brought it and it is immaculate. I have done 3000 miles no oil leaks no dramas.
Do I worry about the engine blowing up. I little bit but check the oil and look at the real stats rather than the fear factor ones and enjoy what is a great car. My Independant has an identical one for sale at the moment and they prepared mine with real detail.
Buy a 996 as if you don’t you will always want one.
Steve
e46m3Mark said:
The only Porsche I have ever owned were a wide arched 914 and a 924 Lux, both of which were many moons ago. More recently I have been looking at 996 (as always fancied a 911 and missed the boat on anything air cooled), specifically a manual, non sunroof, LSD equipped 996 in silver, for circa £12 - 15K.
I've also noticed that the same budget could get me a tidy Cayman, although I know very little about them other than they look good in white.
So what would you buy for a £15K maximum? Would you buy privately or opt for a dealer with a warranty?
Something like this...
https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/listings/porsch...
Thanks in advance.
Having owned every version of Cayman, and every version of water cooled 911, I would buy a 996. I currently have a 2002 C2 tip, and a 2003 TT manual. I love using them, and they've been superbly reliable during my ownership. Both have a detailed a meticulous service history.I've also noticed that the same budget could get me a tidy Cayman, although I know very little about them other than they look good in white.
So what would you buy for a £15K maximum? Would you buy privately or opt for a dealer with a warranty?
Something like this...
https://www.williamscrawford.co.uk/listings/porsch...
Thanks in advance.
The internet would have you believe you're buying a ticking time bomb, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest some models of both 996 and Cayman are more prone to various failures than others. Pre facelift 996.1 3.4 engines are the safest bet. I've never suffered a major engine failure.
Personally, I'd suggest buying privately - that way you'll get a good idea by judging the seller if the car you're buying has been well maintained. You can always get an inspection done by an inspector you trust, and you can purchase your own insurance backed warranty after buying.
A worthwhile question is what you would do if the engine did let go. Are you happy with a £10k bill from somewhere like Hartech?
Reading your M3 threads, it is clear that you like to look after your cars and I could imagine you doing a lot more work in the worst case too.
I’d go with a high mile 987.2 S if you can stretch to it. I think I have seen them dip under £20k. Yes you will be working through suspension bushes etc but the worst case is much less likely.
Reading your M3 threads, it is clear that you like to look after your cars and I could imagine you doing a lot more work in the worst case too.
I’d go with a high mile 987.2 S if you can stretch to it. I think I have seen them dip under £20k. Yes you will be working through suspension bushes etc but the worst case is much less likely.
If honest, I've come to the conclusion that I need to save till I have a bigger budget. Much as I like the look of the Cayman, it's a 911 that I've always wanted so am better to take that route.
I'm also nervous about moving away from BMW, as I've owned and driven them for the majority of my life. I know what I'm getting into when I buy an M3 or whatever, whereas I know bugger all about owning and maintaining Porsche.
I guess I'm just not ready to make a decision yet and whilst I realise £15K+ isn't a huge amount, I've worked hard to save it and want to be sure I spend wisely. Well as wisely as anyone spending their savings on an old performance car anyway.
I'm also nervous about moving away from BMW, as I've owned and driven them for the majority of my life. I know what I'm getting into when I buy an M3 or whatever, whereas I know bugger all about owning and maintaining Porsche.
I guess I'm just not ready to make a decision yet and whilst I realise £15K+ isn't a huge amount, I've worked hard to save it and want to be sure I spend wisely. Well as wisely as anyone spending their savings on an old performance car anyway.
e46m3Mark said:
Much as I like the look of the Cayman, it's a 911 that I've always wanted so am better to take that route.
I was the same I couldn't look past a 911 without drooling all over it, that was till I saw a Cayman, it having two seats and a mid-engined configuration instantly wiped out my lust for a 911, after seven years with mine I still have no longing for a 911 to sit in my garage...even though they are faster.The arse of 911's just looks too big these days, the massive overhang does it no favours in the looks department.
BrotherMouzone said:
Where’s the advert please? Couldn’t find it.
Cheers
Here you go: http://www.911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=8983Cheers
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