buying first caterham - advice greatly appreciated
Discussion
Hi Guys
New to PH, looking to buy my first caterham, hoping I could get some tips? Part time car buff, no good at the oily bits though. Know a little about caterhams but don't want to get stung.
Last 'toy' was an elise S2 and only experience of driving caterhams are the four pilgrimages I have made to the Palmer days in Bedford. They claim their cars are R300s, but run on gas and did seem especially twitchy (and battered!).
Budgeting myself around £12k which seems to get an early K? Looking through earlier posts, you all seem to imply that a 6 speed is more important than engine? Should I steer away from ex race? Have found what looks like a nice '01 car with sensible mods. Any advice would be HUGELY appreciated?
Cheers Jon
New to PH, looking to buy my first caterham, hoping I could get some tips? Part time car buff, no good at the oily bits though. Know a little about caterhams but don't want to get stung.
Last 'toy' was an elise S2 and only experience of driving caterhams are the four pilgrimages I have made to the Palmer days in Bedford. They claim their cars are R300s, but run on gas and did seem especially twitchy (and battered!).
Budgeting myself around £12k which seems to get an early K? Looking through earlier posts, you all seem to imply that a 6 speed is more important than engine? Should I steer away from ex race? Have found what looks like a nice '01 car with sensible mods. Any advice would be HUGELY appreciated?
Cheers Jon
Man you guys are quick....
Mainly for road, but could be tempted to do a few track days....
Have a look at this...what do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18308&item=4551393039&rd=1
Cheers Jon
Mainly for road, but could be tempted to do a few track days....
Have a look at this...what do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18308&item=4551393039&rd=1
Cheers Jon
With a K you either need the 6 speed, or a well modified 5 speed (different ratios by one of the respected builders (BGH, Road Race Transmissions etc).
I'd personally avoid ex-race cars unless it was (a) very cheap and/or (b) was going to be used predominantly for track work (or even taken back racing). Not because the cars will necessarily be worse (quite often race cars are better maintained), but selling them later can be a pain in the backside.
The money you're looking at should be sufficient for a 1600 6 speed K car as a starter. And the beauty of these cars is you can add other nice bits as and when funds allow.
If you don't track the car, you'll be missing out on a massive amount of the fun of ownership. To that end, try to make sure any car you get has the FIA rollover bar. It's much safer and the club insist on it for their track days (I think others might now too).
You should also check out Blatchat. You won't be able to post any more without joining the club, but you can search the archives I think, and there's a lot of info on there.
I'd personally avoid ex-race cars unless it was (a) very cheap and/or (b) was going to be used predominantly for track work (or even taken back racing). Not because the cars will necessarily be worse (quite often race cars are better maintained), but selling them later can be a pain in the backside.
The money you're looking at should be sufficient for a 1600 6 speed K car as a starter. And the beauty of these cars is you can add other nice bits as and when funds allow.
If you don't track the car, you'll be missing out on a massive amount of the fun of ownership. To that end, try to make sure any car you get has the FIA rollover bar. It's much safer and the club insist on it for their track days (I think others might now too).
You should also check out Blatchat. You won't be able to post any more without joining the club, but you can search the archives I think, and there's a lot of info on there.
PS That car doesn't look too bad. It's got a lot of the bits you'd want on it, and the engineis probably somewhere around Supersport spec (read 140bhp or so).
It doesn't mention if it has any racing history at all, so I'd ask what it did before this guy bought it.
Note that if you're of heavier build than a racing snake, Tillets can be very uncomfortable. Some people swear by them, but personally I think they're one of the most uncomfortable seats I've sat in (I am on the large side though at 6'4" and over 16st).
It doesn't mention if it has any racing history at all, so I'd ask what it did before this guy bought it.
Note that if you're of heavier build than a racing snake, Tillets can be very uncomfortable. Some people swear by them, but personally I think they're one of the most uncomfortable seats I've sat in (I am on the large side though at 6'4" and over 16st).
Sorry for the delay in my response, I had to pop out for a bit.
That yellow K series does look like a nice car with a good spec
It does have a lot of the bits you should look for in a 7 so could be worth a look
The 1800cc engine is a good lump (I had an 1800 Supersport engine in one of my Superlights) with a useful amount of torque low down in the rev range and a wee bit more comfortable when 'cruising' on the motorway!
As Murph said do check if there is any race history with this car although personally I think this is very unlikely. I say that because it has the spare wheel carrier whereas the majority of race 7's have the race chassis which does without the carrier.
Oh and thanks for the compliment on L100NYY
more pics here
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=177455&f=124&h=o
That yellow K series does look like a nice car with a good spec
It does have a lot of the bits you should look for in a 7 so could be worth a look
The 1800cc engine is a good lump (I had an 1800 Supersport engine in one of my Superlights) with a useful amount of torque low down in the rev range and a wee bit more comfortable when 'cruising' on the motorway!
As Murph said do check if there is any race history with this car although personally I think this is very unlikely. I say that because it has the spare wheel carrier whereas the majority of race 7's have the race chassis which does without the carrier.
Oh and thanks for the compliment on L100NYY
more pics here
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=177455&f=124&h=o
Thanks Guys....
Spoken to the guy selling the Yellow one, seems it was an academy car, he bought it 5000mls ago and claims to have converted it to 1800???? Must say I am quite nervous about buying an ex racer but you do seem to get a lot more for your money. Is £12k fair 'cos seems it 'may' be negotiable. Am I better throwing more money in and buying a newer 'road' car? The idea was to start low and as the bug takes over my life (as I have a suspiction it will!!) upgrade to a sweeter model.
The guy selling the racer 'seems' like a genuine bloke who is not too happy about having to part with his pride and joy. Am I likely to be stuck with it though or do they sell ok? (price permitting) My thoughts are try and knock him down a bit and give it a go?? Also, can you trim the interior out as it is a basic ali cockpit? or is this just throwing good money at bad?
Sorry for all the questions, but really want to do this right!!
Thanks for your responses
Cheers Jon
Spoken to the guy selling the Yellow one, seems it was an academy car, he bought it 5000mls ago and claims to have converted it to 1800???? Must say I am quite nervous about buying an ex racer but you do seem to get a lot more for your money. Is £12k fair 'cos seems it 'may' be negotiable. Am I better throwing more money in and buying a newer 'road' car? The idea was to start low and as the bug takes over my life (as I have a suspiction it will!!) upgrade to a sweeter model.
The guy selling the racer 'seems' like a genuine bloke who is not too happy about having to part with his pride and joy. Am I likely to be stuck with it though or do they sell ok? (price permitting) My thoughts are try and knock him down a bit and give it a go?? Also, can you trim the interior out as it is a basic ali cockpit? or is this just throwing good money at bad?
Sorry for all the questions, but really want to do this right!!
Thanks for your responses
Cheers Jon
I personally wouldn't get involved in retrimming the interior but that's just me!
If I had £12k to spend I would seriously consider the yellow one on e-bay or try and find a 1600k series Supersport with the 6 speed gearbox. I owned a Maclaren Orange one of these and absolutely loved it, plenty quick enough and made a great noise
To be totally honest though whatever Caterham you end up buying I think you will be more than happy.
If I had £12k to spend I would seriously consider the yellow one on e-bay or try and find a 1600k series Supersport with the 6 speed gearbox. I owned a Maclaren Orange one of these and absolutely loved it, plenty quick enough and made a great noise
To be totally honest though whatever Caterham you end up buying I think you will be more than happy.
It all depends how the suspension has been set up, but that's true if any 7.
I always have my cars set up biased towards oversteer ie with the front riding slightly lower than the rear. It is very easy to have the suspension set up exactly how you want it and is well worth the time, effort and expenditure.
Obviously it is in theory much easier to buy a car already set up as to how you would want it but unfortunately it rarely works out that way!
Oh and don't worry about asking lots of questions, that's the joy of being a Pistonheader!
I always have my cars set up biased towards oversteer ie with the front riding slightly lower than the rear. It is very easy to have the suspension set up exactly how you want it and is well worth the time, effort and expenditure.
Obviously it is in theory much easier to buy a car already set up as to how you would want it but unfortunately it rarely works out that way!
Oh and don't worry about asking lots of questions, that's the joy of being a Pistonheader!
Cheers will let you know how I get on. As you offered, another question!! Where would be the best specialist insurance? Tried Tesco, quoted me £2400!!!! only pay a fraction of that on my 330(d!) can't be right I'm thirty bloody two!!! do you have a good specialist???
ps PH is well and truely logged in my favoutites now.
ps PH is well and truely logged in my favoutites now.
I highly recommend Dave Spragg at MSM. I doubt you'll get a better quote from anyone else if comparing like for like. Only thing to note is that he doesn't cover track days.
Suspension - as Loony mentioned, they can all be tweaked to drive as you prefer (understeer, oversteer, neutral etc). In fact, it doesn't matter what sort of car you buy, it's always worth getting it set up just so for yourself.
To do this you need a car with decent dampers and springs (the factory ones aren't bad, so as long as these aren't shot or haven;t been fiddled with you'll be OK). You also need adjustable platforms on the car to allow it to be flat floored and the ride height to be set properly. So ask if the car has this. If not, I think it's a couple of hundred quid to add (maybe more now).
One of the pleasures of owning a 7 is learning how a car reacts to different set ups. Suspension and tyres are amongst the biggest factors here, and playing with these easily and cheaply can reap big rewards in terms of point to point pace.
Resale values are tricky these days. Caterhams used to be rock solid, but this isn't as definite these days. I suspect this may have been down to Caterham upping the ante every 5mins with the latest and greatest specs, and also a lot of people getting into them who weren't really sure what ownership involved. As a result, there was a glut of cars for sale, and a lot of them high spec. When they didn't shift, prices dropped and it affected the whole market.
This effect may well have lightened up a fair bit now, but these are very specialist cars and have a correspondingly small market. The key, as with everything, is to buy well.
This either means at a suitably low price (lots of people are always after trying a 7, but don't want to shell out too much in case they don't like it) or buying a desirable model.
The yellow car looks OK, but would need to be aggressively priced to shift (now or later).
If you have access to a few more k, a good model to look for would be one of the original Superlights. These are well respected in 7 circles and I'm sure a good one will be considered a proper classic in time. You used to be able to get these for sub-15k a year or two ago, but I don't recall seeing any for sale recently...it'd be worth hunting one out if you have the cash and patience though as they come with all the nice parts and are a very nice complete package.
Of course, compared to the vast majority of cars, their residuals are still pretty good in general!
Suspension - as Loony mentioned, they can all be tweaked to drive as you prefer (understeer, oversteer, neutral etc). In fact, it doesn't matter what sort of car you buy, it's always worth getting it set up just so for yourself.
To do this you need a car with decent dampers and springs (the factory ones aren't bad, so as long as these aren't shot or haven;t been fiddled with you'll be OK). You also need adjustable platforms on the car to allow it to be flat floored and the ride height to be set properly. So ask if the car has this. If not, I think it's a couple of hundred quid to add (maybe more now).
One of the pleasures of owning a 7 is learning how a car reacts to different set ups. Suspension and tyres are amongst the biggest factors here, and playing with these easily and cheaply can reap big rewards in terms of point to point pace.
Resale values are tricky these days. Caterhams used to be rock solid, but this isn't as definite these days. I suspect this may have been down to Caterham upping the ante every 5mins with the latest and greatest specs, and also a lot of people getting into them who weren't really sure what ownership involved. As a result, there was a glut of cars for sale, and a lot of them high spec. When they didn't shift, prices dropped and it affected the whole market.
This effect may well have lightened up a fair bit now, but these are very specialist cars and have a correspondingly small market. The key, as with everything, is to buy well.
This either means at a suitably low price (lots of people are always after trying a 7, but don't want to shell out too much in case they don't like it) or buying a desirable model.
The yellow car looks OK, but would need to be aggressively priced to shift (now or later).
If you have access to a few more k, a good model to look for would be one of the original Superlights. These are well respected in 7 circles and I'm sure a good one will be considered a proper classic in time. You used to be able to get these for sub-15k a year or two ago, but I don't recall seeing any for sale recently...it'd be worth hunting one out if you have the cash and patience though as they come with all the nice parts and are a very nice complete package.
Of course, compared to the vast majority of cars, their residuals are still pretty good in general!
A few specific points
IIRC adjustable platforms only became standard on recent accademy cars, before that I think they were an option. It would be worth checking which ones the car has
If they are adjustable then, as everyone else has said, just set it up yourself. It's all part of the fun
Also there are 2 positions for the rear trailing arms, the lower one is the one used for racing, you may want to change this if it's going to predominantly used on the road (look under the arch in front of the rear wheel)
IIRC adjustable platforms only became standard on recent accademy cars, before that I think they were an option. It would be worth checking which ones the car has
If they are adjustable then, as everyone else has said, just set it up yourself. It's all part of the fun
Also there are 2 positions for the rear trailing arms, the lower one is the one used for racing, you may want to change this if it's going to predominantly used on the road (look under the arch in front of the rear wheel)
Incorrigible said:
A few specific points
Also there are 2 positions for the rear trailing arms, the lower one is the one used for racing, you may want to change this if it's going to predominantly used on the road (look under the arch in front of the rear wheel)
Forgive my ignorance, but are there really trailing arms fitted to Caterhams?
It was going so well....
Insurance lined up (can't believe how cheap) final negotiations on the yellow eBay car and someone jumps in with a buy it now!!
Back to the drawing board, can't seem to find anything decent local to me (South Wales). Tried my nearest dealer, but 'official' dealer prices do seem a little strong. £17k for a 2000 1.6 supersport? Don't mind up'ing the budget but £17k seems to get me in a superlight?
Thought this was gonnna be easy....arhhhhhh!!!!!!
Insurance lined up (can't believe how cheap) final negotiations on the yellow eBay car and someone jumps in with a buy it now!!
Back to the drawing board, can't seem to find anything decent local to me (South Wales). Tried my nearest dealer, but 'official' dealer prices do seem a little strong. £17k for a 2000 1.6 supersport? Don't mind up'ing the budget but £17k seems to get me in a superlight?
Thought this was gonnna be easy....arhhhhhh!!!!!!
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