UK Hawker Typhoon project need last £3.5k of £50k in 5 days
Discussion
The Hawker Typhoon Preservation Group need the last little bit of the £50k, just 5 days left to raise the last £3,500 to begin the restoration of the rear fuselage at renowned Spitfire restorers Airframe Assemblies on the IoW.
This is a project to get Hawker Typhoon RB396 airworthy, more info here https://hawkertyphoon.com/
Donations of £10 and up on the Crowdfunder page, which is a good read about the project even if you can't afford to donate.
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/rb396
Edit, fixed the link
This is a project to get Hawker Typhoon RB396 airworthy, more info here https://hawkertyphoon.com/
Donations of £10 and up on the Crowdfunder page, which is a good read about the project even if you can't afford to donate.
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/rb396
Edit, fixed the link
Edited by Total loss on Monday 22 April 15:48
T-bagger said:
Great project this and have already donated. Sam one of the trustees (who’s grandfather flew these beasts) was one of my flying instructors down at Goodwood. Great guy, very talented pilot and absolutely devoted to this project, he’ll likely be flying it when complete.
That's brave.Yertis said:
T-bagger said:
Great project this and have already donated. Sam one of the trustees (who’s grandfather flew these beasts) was one of my flying instructors down at Goodwood. Great guy, very talented pilot and absolutely devoted to this project, he’ll likely be flying it when complete.
That's brave.If I was heavily involved in that project, *if* it does get close to the actual first flight stage, only a very experienced warbird TP would be allowed anywhere near the cockpit!
And that's a very small group of pilots at the moment, (half a dozen come to mind) let alone by the time this comes to fly at the end of the next decade, when those pilots will be close to 70 odd!!
aeropilot said:
Not what I'd call it.....
If I was heavily involved in that project, *if* it does get close to the actual first flight stage, only a very experienced warbird TP would be allowed anywhere near the cockpit!
And that's a very small group of pilots at the moment, (half a dozen come to mind) let alone by the time this comes to fly at the end of the next decade, when those pilots will be close to 70 odd!!
I'm a fan of the Typhoon/Tempest series, so I'd love to see one fly, and have also donated. But they were only marginally airworthy during the war with a complete infrastructure and a lot of experience behind them. So I think it would be just as great to have a Typhoon that is complete and actually runs – a bit like the Jets at Bruntingthorpe – and save themselves a whole heap of pain trying to get the thing airworthy and flying. If I was heavily involved in that project, *if* it does get close to the actual first flight stage, only a very experienced warbird TP would be allowed anywhere near the cockpit!
And that's a very small group of pilots at the moment, (half a dozen come to mind) let alone by the time this comes to fly at the end of the next decade, when those pilots will be close to 70 odd!!
Yertis said:
I'm a fan of the Typhoon/Tempest series, so I'd love to see one fly, and have also donated. But they were only marginally airworthy during the war with a complete infrastructure and a lot of experience behind them. So I think it would be just as great to have a Typhoon that is complete and actually runs – a bit like the Jets at Bruntingthorpe – and save themselves a whole heap of pain trying to get the thing airworthy and flying.
Its finding a shop willing to put their name to an airworthy rebuild of a super rare engine that no one has rebuilt or even run for 70 odd years...........!I know Kermit had one of his down at Ricardo for a long time back in the 90's for investigation, but I think its back in the USA now, but I'm a bit out of touch with who/where any possible airworthy engine build on a Sabre has or has not been contracted out to?
The airframe (and possibly systems as well) side of it is a relatively simple task, being a Hawker product sitting in between the Hurricane and Fury/Sea Fury in tech and construction.
That monster Sabre is still the elephant in the room though to one actually ever flying.
aeropilot said:
Its finding a shop willing to put their name to an airworthy rebuild of a super rare engine that no one has rebuilt or even run for 70 odd years...........!
I know Kermit had one of his down at Ricardo for a long time back in the 90's for investigation, but I think its back in the USA now, but I'm a bit out of touch with who/where any possible airworthy engine build on a Sabre has or has not been contracted out to?
The airframe (and possibly systems as well) side of it is a relatively simple task, being a Hawker product sitting in between the Hurricane and Fury/Sea Fury in tech and construction.
That monster Sabre is still the elephant in the room though to one actually ever flying.
It was the Sabre I was thinking about. Well, that and the tail units coming off. And the general handling and management of the thing.I know Kermit had one of his down at Ricardo for a long time back in the 90's for investigation, but I think its back in the USA now, but I'm a bit out of touch with who/where any possible airworthy engine build on a Sabre has or has not been contracted out to?
The airframe (and possibly systems as well) side of it is a relatively simple task, being a Hawker product sitting in between the Hurricane and Fury/Sea Fury in tech and construction.
That monster Sabre is still the elephant in the room though to one actually ever flying.
I'm quite happy to stick with Sea Furies but even they are getting even more difficult to keep up, from what I've read.
Yertis said:
I'm quite happy to stick with Sea Furies but even they are getting even more difficult to keep up, from what I've read.
Its the Bristol Centaurus sleeve valve engine that is the issue now, spares availability being one problem, but the main one as I remember is the very special grade Aeroshell 100 U oil designed for it, which hasn't been made for quite a while. It's this oil that is neccessary for the sleeve lubrication in the engine, and back in the 70's and 80's Rolls Royce had arranged for quantities to be made by Shell as there were still some commericial operators of the engine (Nord Noratlas etc as well as RNHF) Shell would only agree to make large quantities however, which if all the civie warbird owners had chipped in, its likely that it might still be available.However, I believe that most/all of the civilian US/UK warbird operators chose to ignore the advice from RR and believed that other oils would work, eventually leading to engine failures and some crashes and losses. But it was the engines fault, not the operation, and why many US operators chose to re-engine with US radials.
I believe that there's now none of the oil left, and not much chance of it being made now by Shell and why more and more are being re-engined to US radials.
Yertis said:
It was the Sabre I was thinking about. Well, that and the tail units coming off. And the general handling and management of the thing.
I'm quite happy to stick with Sea Furies but even they are getting even more difficult to keep up, from what I've read.
The build is of a late model Typhoon with the modification to stop the tail coming off, and the builders reckon the initial issues with the Napier engine are now well understood and can be avoided.. I'm quite happy to stick with Sea Furies but even they are getting even more difficult to keep up, from what I've read.
Dr Jekyll said:
The build is of a late model Typhoon with the modification to stop the tail coming off, and the builders reckon the initial issues with the Napier engine are now well understood and can be avoided..
That maybe so in theory, but a certified engine shop still has to strip, rebuild and certify for flight an engine that no-one has built for flight for 70+ years. Hell, no-one has heard one run since the late 40's when the last Tempest V's flew!aeropilot said:
Its finding a shop willing to put their name to an airworthy rebuild of a super rare engine that no one has rebuilt or even run for 70 odd years...........!
I know Kermit had one of his down at Ricardo for a long time back in the 90's for investigation, but I think its back in the USA now, but I'm a bit out of touch with who/where any possible airworthy engine build on a Sabre has or has not been contracted out to?
Both Tempest V (Sabre) and Tempest II (Centaurus) are at Fantasy of Flight now - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7QJ8AmjmAgI know Kermit had one of his down at Ricardo for a long time back in the 90's for investigation, but I think its back in the USA now, but I'm a bit out of touch with who/where any possible airworthy engine build on a Sabre has or has not been contracted out to?
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The build is of a late model Typhoon with the modification to stop the tail coming off, and the builders reckon the initial issues with the Napier engine are now well understood and can be avoided..
That maybe so in theory, but a certified engine shop still has to strip, rebuild and certify for flight an engine that no-one has built for flight for 70+ years. Hell, no-one has heard one run since the late 40's when the last Tempest V's flew!aeropilot said:
Its the Bristol Centaurus sleeve valve engine that is the issue now, spares availability being one problem, but the main one as I remember is the very special grade Aeroshell 100 U oil designed for it, which hasn't been made for quite a while. It's this oil that is neccessary for the sleeve lubrication in the engine, and back in the 70's and 80's Rolls Royce had arranged for quantities to be made by Shell as there were still some commericial operators of the engine (Nord Noratlas etc as well as RNHF) Shell would only agree to make large quantities however, which if all the civie warbird owners had chipped in, its likely that it might still be available.
However, I believe that most/all of the civilian US/UK warbird operators chose to ignore the advice from RR and believed that other oils would work, eventually leading to engine failures and some crashes and losses. But it was the engines fault, not the operation, and why many US operators chose to re-engine with US radials.
I believe that there's now none of the oil left, and not much chance of it being made now by Shell and why more and more are being re-engined to US radials.
The oil has a specification, therefore it can be made. It might be be fabulously expensive to order it but that's a financial matter not a practical one. If anything the ability of oil blenders to churn out niche products to manufacturer's particular needs has dramatically improved in the last couple of decades. The only tricky bit I can foresee is prying the recipe out of Shell.However, I believe that most/all of the civilian US/UK warbird operators chose to ignore the advice from RR and believed that other oils would work, eventually leading to engine failures and some crashes and losses. But it was the engines fault, not the operation, and why many US operators chose to re-engine with US radials.
I believe that there's now none of the oil left, and not much chance of it being made now by Shell and why more and more are being re-engined to US radials.
Certainly sleeve valves are extraordinarily sensitive to lubricant quality and not using the right stuff pretty much guarantees disastrous failures through seizure. Without the right stuff any proposal for this thing flying is a very bad idea.
There are 6 Tempest restorations to flight going on around the world (4 USA, 1 UK, 1 Canada) and 5 of them are Centaurus engined MK IIs and 1 of them is Napier Sabre engined (Kermit Weeks MK V). I wonder if Vintage V12s might get involved at some stage, certainly with the US restorations, they have already expanded onto Centaurus engines this year. http://www.vintagev12s.com Plus of course the 1 Napier Sabre powered Typhoon RB396 in the UK above being restored.
There are around 30 Napier Sabre engines around the world, engines on display in museums, in aircraft and from crash recovered examples.
Obviously they won't be quick restorations but combined knowledge will be valuable.
There are around 30 Napier Sabre engines around the world, engines on display in museums, in aircraft and from crash recovered examples.
Obviously they won't be quick restorations but combined knowledge will be valuable.
hidetheelephants said:
aeropilot said:
Its the Bristol Centaurus sleeve valve engine that is the issue now, spares availability being one problem, but the main one as I remember is the very special grade Aeroshell 100 U oil designed for it, which hasn't been made for quite a while. It's this oil that is neccessary for the sleeve lubrication in the engine, and back in the 70's and 80's Rolls Royce had arranged for quantities to be made by Shell as there were still some commericial operators of the engine (Nord Noratlas etc as well as RNHF) Shell would only agree to make large quantities however, which if all the civie warbird owners had chipped in, its likely that it might still be available.
However, I believe that most/all of the civilian US/UK warbird operators chose to ignore the advice from RR and believed that other oils would work, eventually leading to engine failures and some crashes and losses. But it was the engines fault, not the operation, and why many US operators chose to re-engine with US radials.
I believe that there's now none of the oil left, and not much chance of it being made now by Shell and why more and more are being re-engined to US radials.
The oil has a specification, therefore it can be made. It might be be fabulously expensive to order it but that's a financial matter not a practical one. If anything the ability of oil blenders to churn out niche products to manufacturer's particular needs has dramatically improved in the last couple of decades. The only tricky bit I can foresee is prying the recipe out of Shell.However, I believe that most/all of the civilian US/UK warbird operators chose to ignore the advice from RR and believed that other oils would work, eventually leading to engine failures and some crashes and losses. But it was the engines fault, not the operation, and why many US operators chose to re-engine with US radials.
I believe that there's now none of the oil left, and not much chance of it being made now by Shell and why more and more are being re-engined to US radials.
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