Artillery shell propellant casing
Discussion
Years ago we were walking the rally classification stage at Arras, bulldozed on a vacant plot in an industrial estate outside the city. I noticed a cylindrical object d'art at the side of the track and approached it with caution. It was a very muddy shell propellant casing.
Appears to be steel or iron.
Aluminium ring about the base with castellations.
11. 5 inch long and about 3.25 inch diameter.
Quite heavy and thick walls.
No discernable markings.
Any ideas what it was from?
The propellant casings I've seen always were brass or similar alloy.
Appears to be steel or iron.
Aluminium ring about the base with castellations.
11. 5 inch long and about 3.25 inch diameter.
Quite heavy and thick walls.
No discernable markings.
Any ideas what it was from?
The propellant casings I've seen always were brass or similar alloy.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=introduction-...
No idea really, but it looks a bit like a Shrapnel shell halfway down this page.
No idea really, but it looks a bit like a Shrapnel shell halfway down this page.
It's a shell, not a propellant holder, and I concur that it could be a shrapnel shell. Artillery shells tend to have a longer ogive (radius) on the nose.
You are correct in saying that the Case (to give it the correct title) is almost always brass - until fairly recently anyway - and the shell itself is a carefully-chosen steel with characteristics to suit its purpose; as a shrapnel shell, this would have been designed to shatter into predictable sizes. Others, like a high-explosive squash-head, are high-tensile steel to contain and direct the detonation in order to defeat armour plate.
The castellations are from the rifling in the gun barrel - that part starts life as a smooth copper band which is pressed into a recess on the shell body. It acts both as a 'gasket' to seal the explosive gasses behind it, and to impart the spin on the shell when it is fired.
You are correct in saying that the Case (to give it the correct title) is almost always brass - until fairly recently anyway - and the shell itself is a carefully-chosen steel with characteristics to suit its purpose; as a shrapnel shell, this would have been designed to shatter into predictable sizes. Others, like a high-explosive squash-head, are high-tensile steel to contain and direct the detonation in order to defeat armour plate.
The castellations are from the rifling in the gun barrel - that part starts life as a smooth copper band which is pressed into a recess on the shell body. It acts both as a 'gasket' to seal the explosive gasses behind it, and to impart the spin on the shell when it is fired.
100SRV said:
Interesting.
If it is a shell does that mean it is the projectile part of a two-piece round?
Yes - without doubt. The shell case stays at the gun location, the shell will be some distance away (sorry if that sounds obvious).If it is a shell does that mean it is the projectile part of a two-piece round?
The case has some interesting characteristics too. Made of brass (usually) as it deforms easily at the 'mouth' when heat-treated properly (the rest of the case is left work-hardened after manufacture). This means that it can be pressed into the cut-outs at the base of the shell to hold the two together, and to form a seal for the explosive charge, and also that when the charge ignites, it bells outwards to form a seal against the gun breech to minimise the explosive gasses going backwards into the breech mechanism.
littleredrooster said:
It's a shell, not a propellant holder, and I concur that it could be a shrapnel shell. Artillery shells tend to have a longer ogive (radius) on the nose.
You are correct in saying that the Case (to give it the correct title) is almost always brass - until fairly recently anyway - and the shell itself is a carefully-chosen steel with characteristics to suit its purpose; as a shrapnel shell, this would have been designed to shatter into predictable sizes. Others, like a high-explosive squash-head, are high-tensile steel to contain and direct the detonation in order to defeat armour plate.
The castellations are from the rifling in the gun barrel - that part starts life as a smooth copper band which is pressed into a recess on the shell body. It acts both as a 'gasket' to seal the explosive gasses behind it, and to impart the spin on the shell when it is fired.
You done GCC littleredrooster?You are correct in saying that the Case (to give it the correct title) is almost always brass - until fairly recently anyway - and the shell itself is a carefully-chosen steel with characteristics to suit its purpose; as a shrapnel shell, this would have been designed to shatter into predictable sizes. Others, like a high-explosive squash-head, are high-tensile steel to contain and direct the detonation in order to defeat armour plate.
The castellations are from the rifling in the gun barrel - that part starts life as a smooth copper band which is pressed into a recess on the shell body. It acts both as a 'gasket' to seal the explosive gasses behind it, and to impart the spin on the shell when it is fired.
Sound very much like a SMIG from RSA
Check me out with my Artillery acronyms!
Your dimension suggests it might be a British 18 pounder shrapnel shell.
British field gun calibres at the time were given as weight of projectile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_18-pounder_gun
British field gun calibres at the time were given as weight of projectile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_18-pounder_gun
littleredrooster said:
piecost76 said:
You done GCC littleredrooster?
Er...no. Wassat?piecost76 said:
Sound very much like a SMIG from RSA
Not with this Geordie accent, I don't!Never fired them, but I made them for about twenty years.
GCC = Gunnery Careers Course learning all about artillery before becoming (amongst other posts) a Sergeant Major Instructor Gunnery at the Royal School of Artillery in Larkhill!
Seems like no harm in asking, as this thread seems to contain few people in the know. We’ve just bought a house with some historic military history, and am trying to locate and buy a shell. As big as possible, to,use as a convo piece, have the house name on, and be heavy enough to be tricky to steal. Any pointers?
Propelling band? Driving Band? Tom-ay-to/Tom-ahh-to... http://www.ammunitionpages.com/download/253/Drivin...
Purpose to seal the propellant gases behind the shell, and to impart a gyroscopic stabilising spin to the inherently unstable projectile, thereby improving accuracy and providing a reasonably reliable and consistent range to said projectile.
Lots of factors combine to affect accuracy and range, among them inconsistencies in the amount of propellant fill, and temperature changes which alter the gap between the shell and the barrel. Rifling the barrel and using a soft(er) driving (rotating) band is an attempt to reduce any fluctuations due to temperature and barrel wear, so to achieve consistency and accuracy with each and every shot.
The humble rifle bullet is sealed in a similar way, but there is no separate driving band to fill the rifling, and the grooves on a fired and recovered round will be on the body of the round itself.
Prior to this, cannonballs were not able to be sealed in the gun barrels, because they would never have rolled to the breach end from the muzzle when loading. The loose ball was prevented from falling out of the barrel and sealed to make effective use of the propellant powder by use of wadding between the charge and the ball, and in front of the ball. A better explanation with pictures here... http://www.sa-cannon.com/loading_and_firing.html#....
ETA:
This is the cannonball I have in my garden. Best guess, given it's weight and diameter, are that it's a 24lb solid shot with a diameter of 5.55 inches. although if the bumpy bits on the outside are a corroded layer of metal coming off (and not, as I suspect, soil compacted and hardened onto the ball when it landed), then it may have weighed more and been larger so there's an outside chance it's a 32 lb (6.1 inch). Whether it's a 24 lb or 36 lb ball, I suspect it was fired by a piece of naval artillery. The cannon used to fire even a 24 lb ball weighed 2.5 tonnes, so less likely that it was filed artillery, although naval guns were used as siege weapons.
It was recovered on a range clearance task when we were actually checking for WW1 and WW2 munitions to see that none remained on site before handing a former firing range back to public access. We also found thousands of fragments of shell in the ground, and all had to be removed to be sure that the detectors were not missing dangerous unexploded stuff beneath the splinters. Many of the pieces of shell included parts of twisted driving bands. The cannonball used to be used as a doorstop, sat in a metal hoop to stop it rolling away but was given to me when I retired from the army.
Purpose to seal the propellant gases behind the shell, and to impart a gyroscopic stabilising spin to the inherently unstable projectile, thereby improving accuracy and providing a reasonably reliable and consistent range to said projectile.
Lots of factors combine to affect accuracy and range, among them inconsistencies in the amount of propellant fill, and temperature changes which alter the gap between the shell and the barrel. Rifling the barrel and using a soft(er) driving (rotating) band is an attempt to reduce any fluctuations due to temperature and barrel wear, so to achieve consistency and accuracy with each and every shot.
The humble rifle bullet is sealed in a similar way, but there is no separate driving band to fill the rifling, and the grooves on a fired and recovered round will be on the body of the round itself.
Prior to this, cannonballs were not able to be sealed in the gun barrels, because they would never have rolled to the breach end from the muzzle when loading. The loose ball was prevented from falling out of the barrel and sealed to make effective use of the propellant powder by use of wadding between the charge and the ball, and in front of the ball. A better explanation with pictures here... http://www.sa-cannon.com/loading_and_firing.html#....
ETA:
This is the cannonball I have in my garden. Best guess, given it's weight and diameter, are that it's a 24lb solid shot with a diameter of 5.55 inches. although if the bumpy bits on the outside are a corroded layer of metal coming off (and not, as I suspect, soil compacted and hardened onto the ball when it landed), then it may have weighed more and been larger so there's an outside chance it's a 32 lb (6.1 inch). Whether it's a 24 lb or 36 lb ball, I suspect it was fired by a piece of naval artillery. The cannon used to fire even a 24 lb ball weighed 2.5 tonnes, so less likely that it was filed artillery, although naval guns were used as siege weapons.
It was recovered on a range clearance task when we were actually checking for WW1 and WW2 munitions to see that none remained on site before handing a former firing range back to public access. We also found thousands of fragments of shell in the ground, and all had to be removed to be sure that the detectors were not missing dangerous unexploded stuff beneath the splinters. Many of the pieces of shell included parts of twisted driving bands. The cannonball used to be used as a doorstop, sat in a metal hoop to stop it rolling away but was given to me when I retired from the army.
Edited by yellowjack on Wednesday 8th May 17:51
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