Employer let down.
Discussion
Good evening all. Wondering if anyone could help with this issue? I have been trying to advance myself at work, a year ago I had a meeting with our MD and head of HR. They were of the opinion that I had to enrol on an NVQ through work to gain the necessary skills to advance. I work in the aviation industry.
They paid for the course, which I duly undertook and passed. Having gained the qualification, they are now saying I have to do a Btec in addition to the NVQ that I have already passed. They claim they made a mistake, and put me on the wrong course?!
The qualification was gained working on my aero engine program, and according to the NVQ awarding body, "you are either competent, or not yet competent" I have the qualification and certificate, proof positive that I am indeed competent.
I have said that the original arrangement was to complete an NVQ, thereby gaining elevated status and a pay increase. This I have in the form of emails / correspondence etc. In addition, the new HR manager has profusely apologised for the companies behaviour, errors, and mishandling of me. Please note that these issues have been carrying on throughout my near 9 years with this company.
The company has admitted to mishandling me. Can anyone advise of any recourse / action I can take? I am a good worker, reliable, good quality of work, I have improved work processes, quality, I train apprentices, fellow workers, charity work etc. I am considered to be friendly and helpful, and according to the company "go above and beyond" I don't brown nose or crawl, I like my work to speak for itself. I am popular with my colleagues, and do what I can to help them if needed.
Others at work are now less qualified than myself, have less time with the company, yet are paid considerably more. Double standards are rife, and I am suitably upset with the whole situation. Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
They paid for the course, which I duly undertook and passed. Having gained the qualification, they are now saying I have to do a Btec in addition to the NVQ that I have already passed. They claim they made a mistake, and put me on the wrong course?!
The qualification was gained working on my aero engine program, and according to the NVQ awarding body, "you are either competent, or not yet competent" I have the qualification and certificate, proof positive that I am indeed competent.
I have said that the original arrangement was to complete an NVQ, thereby gaining elevated status and a pay increase. This I have in the form of emails / correspondence etc. In addition, the new HR manager has profusely apologised for the companies behaviour, errors, and mishandling of me. Please note that these issues have been carrying on throughout my near 9 years with this company.
The company has admitted to mishandling me. Can anyone advise of any recourse / action I can take? I am a good worker, reliable, good quality of work, I have improved work processes, quality, I train apprentices, fellow workers, charity work etc. I am considered to be friendly and helpful, and according to the company "go above and beyond" I don't brown nose or crawl, I like my work to speak for itself. I am popular with my colleagues, and do what I can to help them if needed.
Others at work are now less qualified than myself, have less time with the company, yet are paid considerably more. Double standards are rife, and I am suitably upset with the whole situation. Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
Well you won’t like this advice...
You’ve been at a company 9 years and say they have mismanaged YOU? It’s your career and your life. Get a different job, or are you of the opinion you join a company and stay there for life?
They have messed you about, get a new job and see what they say. If they ask you to stay and offer a pay rise great. If not then you and your 9 years meant nothing and the good news is you have a new job.
Although that probably isn’t what you wanted to hear.
You’ve been at a company 9 years and say they have mismanaged YOU? It’s your career and your life. Get a different job, or are you of the opinion you join a company and stay there for life?
They have messed you about, get a new job and see what they say. If they ask you to stay and offer a pay rise great. If not then you and your 9 years meant nothing and the good news is you have a new job.
Although that probably isn’t what you wanted to hear.
No a new job is almost certainly the answer, my wife works for the same company, is also training for her corporate accountancy, so hoping my decision will not affect her progression. I currently am the only person within the company who holds relevant approvals on my engine program too. So should I leave, it will impact them significantly. But the MD is of the belief he doesn't like the tail wagging the dog. I did point out that I don't know too many dogs who like to keep biting their own tails. Advice he failed to appreciate. And he has little issue with biting his nose to spite his face. Very odd way of working.
Flumpo said:
Well you won’t like this advice...
You’ve been at a company 9 years and say they have mismanaged YOU? It’s your career and your life. Get a different job, or are you of the opinion you join a company and stay there for life?
They have messed you about, get a new job and see what they say. If they ask you to stay and offer a pay rise great. If not then you and your 9 years meant nothing and the good news is you have a new job.
Although that probably isn’t what you wanted to hear.
You’ve been at a company 9 years and say they have mismanaged YOU? It’s your career and your life. Get a different job, or are you of the opinion you join a company and stay there for life?
They have messed you about, get a new job and see what they say. If they ask you to stay and offer a pay rise great. If not then you and your 9 years meant nothing and the good news is you have a new job.
Although that probably isn’t what you wanted to hear.
supermanraf said:
No a new job is almost certainly the answer, my wife works for the same company, is also training for her corporate accountancy, so hoping my decision will not affect her progression. I currently am the only person within the company who holds relevant approvals on my engine program too. So should I leave, it will impact them significantly. But the MD is of the belief he doesn't like the tail wagging the dog. I did point out that I don't know too many dogs who like to keep biting their own tails. Advice he failed to appreciate. And he has little issue with biting his nose to spite his face. Very odd way of working.
I'm sorry, but he's right. Clearly there's a screw up here - but what do you want them to do?Give you a pay rise for a qualification that isn't useful?
Or do you think it's deliberate, and that road blocks are being added after the fact? If so the trust is broken - you probably can't fix that and need to move on.
You still have the qualification, and didn't have to pay for it. That's something no matter what you do next.
I do believe it to be deliberate. As stated, an NVQ can only be gained by proving your competency. But they have a pattern of doing what is needed if it puts them out. It's fairly black and white in that regard. Just a shame really, as it's not the circumstances I would choose to leave under, but hey ho I guess. I certainly don't feel that I owe them anything, especially after this debacle.
I’ve been in aviation, turning spanners for most of it, for nearly forty years. Companies vary, and priorities change. Some bosses are caring and decent, some are run by tyrants sailing very close to the wind.
One constant: everyone is disposable. Including you, me and the bloke at the top.
Ask your QA department which qualifications are required by the regulatory authorities and customers for you to be promoted. Ask to see those requirements. Take it from there.
Your wife is also disposable.
One constant: everyone is disposable. Including you, me and the bloke at the top.
Ask your QA department which qualifications are required by the regulatory authorities and customers for you to be promoted. Ask to see those requirements. Take it from there.
Your wife is also disposable.
Think of work as a 2 way exploitation.
If you could get a better job, more money, closer to home, easier work, more holidays, more long term security, a better structured career progression, you'd have applied and taken it, So at this point in time you are exploiting them.
If they could get someone faster, neater, more flexible. For less money, who was happy to take more s
t for longer, they'd have them. At present they think that person is you..
So it works well if both parties are happy with the arrangement.
What's basically happened here is that they've taken away 2 things that you were exploiting them for. Better career progression leading to more money.
Now you think you are being exploited.
In my opinion I think an NVQ is only useful to the company. It says to customers you can do the job that you are doing. It ticks a box. They have ba training plan and they test people.
If they are offering a BTEC that's much more transportable.
Long term it would allow you to move to other companies easier.
However, if you start looking outside now you might find more money, now.
No harm in looking.
If you could get a better job, more money, closer to home, easier work, more holidays, more long term security, a better structured career progression, you'd have applied and taken it, So at this point in time you are exploiting them.
If they could get someone faster, neater, more flexible. For less money, who was happy to take more s
t for longer, they'd have them. At present they think that person is you..So it works well if both parties are happy with the arrangement.
What's basically happened here is that they've taken away 2 things that you were exploiting them for. Better career progression leading to more money.
Now you think you are being exploited.
In my opinion I think an NVQ is only useful to the company. It says to customers you can do the job that you are doing. It ticks a box. They have ba training plan and they test people.
If they are offering a BTEC that's much more transportable.
Long term it would allow you to move to other companies easier.
However, if you start looking outside now you might find more money, now.
No harm in looking.
Have no fear, I'm well ąware of my disposable status there. The MD is a bit bloodthirsty in that regard. He's adopted a mantra of BUOFO. "Buck up or f*** off" being that the company is failing to attract much new talent, he seems quite content on shooting himself in the foot.
We are in the process of being sold, and I'm not sure he'll survive the change. We had a previous MD brought in for a consultation, who was very critical of him in his report. Asking why the shopfloor was lacking in people, and advised him that he needed to improve the environment, and look after the staff he has got. But he seems to have gone the other way with it.
His managers clearly have to live and breathe the job, it's all consuming for them, and they are all strung out. Not enough people or resources, and it's an aging workforce. An unfortunate legacy of the previous management, who, as was pointed out to him, have all been sent packing. The people on the shop floor are great, we all do the best we can given the circumstances, but this guy would argue White was black if he could. Real shame.
We are in the process of being sold, and I'm not sure he'll survive the change. We had a previous MD brought in for a consultation, who was very critical of him in his report. Asking why the shopfloor was lacking in people, and advised him that he needed to improve the environment, and look after the staff he has got. But he seems to have gone the other way with it.
His managers clearly have to live and breathe the job, it's all consuming for them, and they are all strung out. Not enough people or resources, and it's an aging workforce. An unfortunate legacy of the previous management, who, as was pointed out to him, have all been sent packing. The people on the shop floor are great, we all do the best we can given the circumstances, but this guy would argue White was black if he could. Real shame.
Career progression and being in a company for extended periods don't tend to go hand-in-hand. Yes, there are always exceptions but this doesn't sound like one of those. I have always lived by the rule of changing roles (which invariably means companies) every 5 years.
Usually a new company is more likely to appoint a person to a more senior role (given demonstration of aptitude) than your existing one. However there are always folks that convince themselves that staying with an existing company regardless of "the experience" is best..... Nobody else would employ me, I'd let people down, I'd lose seniority, I'd be less secure, my wife/brother/father works there too.... The reason doesn't much matter, the result is the same and companies rely on this behaviour to maintain a core staff when conditions are poor. In motoring terms it's akin to those folks that just renew their insurance policy ever year with the same company whilst complaining the costs are rising inexplicably.
Usually a new company is more likely to appoint a person to a more senior role (given demonstration of aptitude) than your existing one. However there are always folks that convince themselves that staying with an existing company regardless of "the experience" is best..... Nobody else would employ me, I'd let people down, I'd lose seniority, I'd be less secure, my wife/brother/father works there too.... The reason doesn't much matter, the result is the same and companies rely on this behaviour to maintain a core staff when conditions are poor. In motoring terms it's akin to those folks that just renew their insurance policy ever year with the same company whilst complaining the costs are rising inexplicably.
I'd say walk, but you are not going to do that.
2 things:
Company for sale
New HR manager
Have a chat with HR, they see on the surface to be on your side.
Get them to agree when you pass the BTEC your wage will be adjusted upwards and backdated too, due to error on their side.
By the time that's done company should be sold and old MD out of the way
2 things:
Company for sale
New HR manager
Have a chat with HR, they see on the surface to be on your side.
Get them to agree when you pass the BTEC your wage will be adjusted upwards and backdated too, due to error on their side.
By the time that's done company should be sold and old MD out of the way
If HR agree error, I'd call them on it.
Ask to get put on BTEC course.
Ask to get raise as if you'd passed it.
If you fail course/don't pass in n months, salary drops back to current level.
Commit to work extra hours to get your BTEC
This way they have a motivated & happy worker who is looking for progression and being flexible wheb company makes mistakes.
It would be a very reasonable thing to propose IMO, but sounds like the MD may need some persuasion, I'd do it through your manager /HR first to take pulse of the idea & advocate on your behalf. Ensure this isn't put as an ultimatum, threatening to leave will do no good here IMO. If you want to go, go, but if you want them to do things for you, ask them to do it on a positive. Id be speaking with HR about a 5year plan to show commitment etc...
Can't harm trying & no bad thing to look at local market to see what you're worth. As long as you're not a dick, what you do don't effect your wife at all. But if you try throwing in spurious claims, threatening misconduct etc... Then you're a troublemaker. Be a positive, pragmatic and solution orientated chap. If there is no meeting ground with the company, move on and wish them well, and they should appreciate what you did for them and wish you well!
Ask to get put on BTEC course.
Ask to get raise as if you'd passed it.
If you fail course/don't pass in n months, salary drops back to current level.
Commit to work extra hours to get your BTEC
This way they have a motivated & happy worker who is looking for progression and being flexible wheb company makes mistakes.
It would be a very reasonable thing to propose IMO, but sounds like the MD may need some persuasion, I'd do it through your manager /HR first to take pulse of the idea & advocate on your behalf. Ensure this isn't put as an ultimatum, threatening to leave will do no good here IMO. If you want to go, go, but if you want them to do things for you, ask them to do it on a positive. Id be speaking with HR about a 5year plan to show commitment etc...
Can't harm trying & no bad thing to look at local market to see what you're worth. As long as you're not a dick, what you do don't effect your wife at all. But if you try throwing in spurious claims, threatening misconduct etc... Then you're a troublemaker. Be a positive, pragmatic and solution orientated chap. If there is no meeting ground with the company, move on and wish them well, and they should appreciate what you did for them and wish you well!
stuthe said:
said: If HR agree error, I'd call them on it.
Ask to get put on BTEC course.
Ask to get raise as if you'd passed it.
If you fail course/don't pass in n months, salary drops back to current level.
Commit to work extra hours to get your BTEC
This way they have a motivated & happy worker who is looking for progression and being flexible wheb company makes mistakes.
It would be a very reasonable thing to propose IMO, but sounds like the MD may need some persuasion, I'd do it through your manager /HR first to take pulse of the idea & advocate on your behalf. Ensure this isn't put as an ultimatum, threatening to leave will do no good here IMO. If you want to go, go, but if you want them to do things for you, ask them to do it on a positive. Id be speaking with HR about a 5year plan to show commitment etc...
Can't harm trying & no bad thing to look at local market to see what you're worth. As long as you're not a dick, what you do don't effect your wife at all. But if you try throwing in spurious claims, threatening misconduct etc... Then you're a troublemaker. Be a positive, pragmatic and solution orientated chap. If there is no meeting ground with the company, move on and wish them well, and they should appreciate what you did for them and wish you well!
They have admitted error, and apologised for the mistake. I've had a look around and there does seem to be a few opportunities out there at the moment. I have a young son, so just upping and going is not really an option.Ask to get put on BTEC course.
Ask to get raise as if you'd passed it.
If you fail course/don't pass in n months, salary drops back to current level.
Commit to work extra hours to get your BTEC
This way they have a motivated & happy worker who is looking for progression and being flexible wheb company makes mistakes.
It would be a very reasonable thing to propose IMO, but sounds like the MD may need some persuasion, I'd do it through your manager /HR first to take pulse of the idea & advocate on your behalf. Ensure this isn't put as an ultimatum, threatening to leave will do no good here IMO. If you want to go, go, but if you want them to do things for you, ask them to do it on a positive. Id be speaking with HR about a 5year plan to show commitment etc...
Can't harm trying & no bad thing to look at local market to see what you're worth. As long as you're not a dick, what you do don't effect your wife at all. But if you try throwing in spurious claims, threatening misconduct etc... Then you're a troublemaker. Be a positive, pragmatic and solution orientated chap. If there is no meeting ground with the company, move on and wish them well, and they should appreciate what you did for them and wish you well!
And I've been very polite and professional in my dealings with HR. New to the position, I did point out that it would be monumentally unfair to shoot the messenger. My immediate manager has also been helpful and understanding, and has tried to sort something, but it's a flat no from the MD. I am returning to work tomorrow, so will update if anything changes. I do appreciate the advice.
I’d sit tight and see what the sale/takeover brings. MD may go, shake up may bring redundancies or new opportunities.
I was at the same company for 31 years though lots of wide ranging opportunities in different divisions. It was how you got on with your manager that determined how good your life at work was. Sounds like you have a challenging time with the current MD.
The other angle is that two of you working for the same company is a risk in itself. I would factor this into any decisions you make.
I was at the same company for 31 years though lots of wide ranging opportunities in different divisions. It was how you got on with your manager that determined how good your life at work was. Sounds like you have a challenging time with the current MD.
The other angle is that two of you working for the same company is a risk in itself. I would factor this into any decisions you make.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff