Hot Start Problem maybe??

[Relayer]

I know this has been asked I thousand times before and I'm aware of what causes the problem but my issue sounds a little different to everything else I read.....so here goes.

Warm car, engine restarts if you immediately try to restart. If you leave for 5/10 mins car will not start. Return to car when cool about an hour or so later, everything fine, she starts and engine runs beautifully.
Also on one occasion she had just been sitting in hot sun for a few hours (without be started) and would not start.
Fuel pump always primes, battery is good, starter and alternator both less than 12 months old.

My immediate thought was to replace alarm but initially decided to fit Modwise/Clarion hot start kit to check things out. Ordered last week and it arrived slightly differently to what I was expecting in that it had a manual switch added into the circuit. Had not seen this on any photos of the kit. David is not back till Tuesday for me to check with him.
Fitted kit as per instructions and it made no difference to starting unless I used the new switch in the circuit with ignition in position one and pump primed.

Removed kit and car has returned to original issue. Starts from cold not from warm.

Any thoughts??

[bobfather]

I certainly sounds like normal hot start problem, ability to hot restart quickly after turning the engine off is normal. It is easy to get the wiring wrong, as I remember there is a choice that you need to make between two similar wires. Are you sure you got it wired correctly? I have no idea why a manual switch has been added

[Belle427]

Perhaps the added switch is bypassing the immobiliser contact altogether if the problem disappears, difficult to tell without seeing the kit.

[Classic Chim]

Sounds like the sticky relay syndrome on the starter motor circuit side of the immobiliser.
Mine was exactly the same as in fuel pump always primed but no starter motor turning over, always after it had been run then left for 5-10 minutes which seemed enough heat to make the rely on the starter circuit stick.
Maybe contact CHIMPONGAS via PM as he has a solution which is very easy to do and eliminates this issue once and for all.

[Loubaruch]

When you say it fails to restart when warm do you mean that:

The starter motor turns the engine but it fails to fire or

That the starter motor fails to turn the engine?

[Relayer]

Loubaruch said:

When you say it fails to restart when warm do you mean that:

The starter motor turns the engine but it fails to fire or

That the starter motor fails to turn the engine?

Starter does nothing , no click no nothing. Fuel pump always primes.

[Relayer]

Belle427 said:

Perhaps the added switch is bypassing the immobiliser contact altogether if the problem disappears, difficult to tell without seeing the kit.

I believe it does bypass the immobiliser because if you press it the starter engages even with ignition off.

[Relayer]

bobfather said:

I certainly sounds like normal hot start problem, ability to hot restart quickly after turning the engine off is normal. It is easy to get the wiring wrong, as I remember there is a choice that you need to make between two similar wires. Are you sure you got it wired correctly? I have no idea why a manual switch has been added

Have tried the wires both ways and appeared to make no difference.

[Classic Chim]

So it’s a mod that takes a wire past the relay rather than through it via a switch by the sound of it so bypassing that part of the immobiliser circuit that causes the issue.

[ianwayne]

Classic symptoms that I had on my last Chimaera. If you stop the engine when hot, it will immediately restart. But not afterwards. This is because of heat soak into all the engine ancillaries. Being a GRP body, it cannot quickly dissipate. Extremely embarrassing at petrol stations.

Even with a new immobiliser mine did it (replaced because the fuel pump wouldn't prime unless I squeezed the immobiliser box!), so I took it to be excessive resistance in the starter solenoid circuit when hot. And the starter was nearly new because that had failed separately.

Bypassing the immobiliser will eliminate it as the source of the fault but you may have a breaking down or damaged cable to the starter from the battery, or a starter motor on the way out too.

[David Beer]

Relayer said:

Have tried the wires both ways and appeared to make no difference.

The switch is for testing, it shows the problem is the immobiliser. Not normally there but I had an idea it was the case.

[Relayer]

David Beer said:

The switch is for testing, it shows the problem is the immobiliser. Not normally there but I had an idea it was the case.

Thanks David. Thought that was the case, I shan't bother you on the phone tomorrow now.

[Relayer]

David Beer said:

The switch is for testing, it shows the problem is the immobiliser. Not normally there but I had an idea it was the case.

Thanks David. Thought that was the case, I shan't bother you on the phone tomorrow now.

[Classic Chim]

Relayer said:

I believe it does bypass the immobiliser because if you press it the starter engages even with ignition off.

Yes this is correct.

[David Beer]

Relayer said:

Thanks David. Thought that was the case, I shan't bother you on the phone tomorrow now.

Find a round push switch , “engine start” !

[Penelope Stopit]

I don't wish to break your heart or cause the supplier of this kit any grief but....Is this what you have fitted and wired


If it is, you are going to benefit by binning all that wiring that came with it, by using that wiring you are going to have more problems than what it's worth, the wiring should be terminated with professional crimped or soldered terminals that have been insulated with special heat-shrink that contains adhesive to waterproof the cable to terminal joints
There is nothing wrong with fitting and wiring a starter relay as they do take the load off the ignition switch
What you needed to do first was to find the fault

I am guessing that when the starter solenoid gets hot its plunger is sticking in its core tube due to lack of good grease, if this is the case the solenoid will be drawing high pull-in rather than low hold-in current for too long a period and will be overloading the crank circuit including the ignition switch and immobiliser relay contacts

If the solenoid is not causing the problem there is also the possibility that the starter motor brushes and or armature commutator are worn, this gives the same symptoms as a sticking solenoid

All the above information is posted in good faith and assuming that you have already proven the main starter positive and earth cables are good

[David Beer]

Penelope Stopit said:

I don't wish to break your heart or cause the supplier of this kit any grief but....Is this what you have fitted and wired


If it is, you are going to benefit by binning all that wiring that came with it, by using that wiring you are going to have more problems than what it's worth, the wiring should be terminated with professional crimped or soldered terminals that have been insulated with special heat-shrink that contains adhesive to waterproof the cable to terminal joints
There is nothing wrong with fitting and wiring a starter relay as they do take the load off the ignition switch
What you needed to do first was to find the fault

I am guessing that when the starter solenoid gets hot its plunger is sticking in its core tube due to lack of good grease, if this is the case the solenoid will be drawing high pull-in rather than low hold-in current for too long a period and will be overloading the crank circuit including the ignition switch and immobiliser relay contacts

If the solenoid is not causing the problem there is also the possibility that the starter motor brushes and or armature commutator are worn, this gives the same symptoms as a sticking solenoid

All the above information is posted in good faith and assuming that you have already proven the main starter positive and earth cables are good

[Relayer]

Penelope Stopit said:

I don't wish to break your heart or cause the supplier of this kit any grief but....Is this what you have fitted and wired


If it is, you are going to benefit by binning all that wiring that came with it, by using that wiring you are going to have more problems than what it's worth, the wiring should be terminated with professional crimped or soldered terminals that have been insulated with special heat-shrink that contains adhesive to waterproof the cable to terminal joints
There is nothing wrong with fitting and wiring a starter relay as they do take the load off the ignition switch
What you needed to do first was to find the fault

I am guessing that when the starter solenoid gets hot its plunger is sticking in its core tube due to lack of good grease, if this is the case the solenoid will be drawing high pull-in rather than low hold-in current for too long a period and will be overloading the crank circuit including the ignition switch and immobiliser relay contacts

If the solenoid is not causing the problem there is also the possibility that the starter motor brushes and or armature commutator are worn, this gives the same symptoms as a sticking solenoid

All the above information is posted in good faith and assuming that you have already proven the main starter positive and earth cables are good

I can confirm that everything is soldered and heat shrunk.

[Penelope Stopit]

David Beer said:

Penelope Stopit said:

I don't wish to break your heart or cause the supplier of this kit any grief but....Is this what you have fitted and wired


If it is, you are going to benefit by binning all that wiring that came with it, by using that wiring you are going to have more problems than what it's worth, the wiring should be terminated with professional crimped or soldered terminals that have been insulated with special heat-shrink that contains adhesive to waterproof the cable to terminal joints
There is nothing wrong with fitting and wiring a starter relay as they do take the load off the ignition switch
What you needed to do first was to find the fault

I am guessing that when the starter solenoid gets hot its plunger is sticking in its core tube due to lack of good grease, if this is the case the solenoid will be drawing high pull-in rather than low hold-in current for too long a period and will be overloading the crank circuit including the ignition switch and immobiliser relay contacts

If the solenoid is not causing the problem there is also the possibility that the starter motor brushes and or armature commutator are worn, this gives the same symptoms as a sticking solenoid

All the above information is posted in good faith and assuming that you have already proven the main starter positive and earth cables are good

[Penelope Stopit]

Relayer said:

Penelope Stopit said:

I don't wish to break your heart or cause the supplier of this kit any grief but....Is this what you have fitted and wired


If it is, you are going to benefit by binning all that wiring that came with it, by using that wiring you are going to have more problems than what it's worth, the wiring should be terminated with professional crimped or soldered terminals that have been insulated with special heat-shrink that contains adhesive to waterproof the cable to terminal joints
There is nothing wrong with fitting and wiring a starter relay as they do take the load off the ignition switch
What you needed to do first was to find the fault

I am guessing that when the starter solenoid gets hot its plunger is sticking in its core tube due to lack of good grease, if this is the case the solenoid will be drawing high pull-in rather than low hold-in current for too long a period and will be overloading the crank circuit including the ignition switch and immobiliser relay contacts

If the solenoid is not causing the problem there is also the possibility that the starter motor brushes and or armature commutator are worn, this gives the same symptoms as a sticking solenoid

All the above information is posted in good faith and assuming that you have already proven the main starter positive and earth cables are good

I can confirm that everything is soldered and heat shrunk.

This is great news, the supplier has obviously modified the kit for the better
You have no need to throw away a kit that has been properly built, the kit as shown in the above image is not of a good enough standard

You will need to check the solenoid etc as I have mentioned above