Redundancy - 3 months notice
Discussion
I wonder if anyone here has advice for a friend of mine
He's been told his position is redundant due to a downturn in business. He's been with the company for 18 months so isn't entitled to any redundancy but is on a 3 months notice period (and that's both ways, so if he had resigned it was 3 months also)
He has been asked to work his 3 months notice in case the business turns around but is free to go to other interviews. If he gets offered another job will he have to stick to the 3 months notice, or would it be realistic to offer a months notice instead as he has already been told he is being made redundant?
He's been told his position is redundant due to a downturn in business. He's been with the company for 18 months so isn't entitled to any redundancy but is on a 3 months notice period (and that's both ways, so if he had resigned it was 3 months also)
He has been asked to work his 3 months notice in case the business turns around but is free to go to other interviews. If he gets offered another job will he have to stick to the 3 months notice, or would it be realistic to offer a months notice instead as he has already been told he is being made redundant?
It's all up for negotiation. It is possible to serve a "counter notice" but they can hold you to the contractual period.
Most normal employers would consider it pretty silly to hold an employee to their notice period, since by definition they are redundant and while you can force them to turn up to work you can't really force them to do anything while they are there, so there's not much to gain.
Don't forget they have to try to find you alternative employment within the firm, so if there are other roles you could fill and you want to stay then see about getting one of them.
Most normal employers would consider it pretty silly to hold an employee to their notice period, since by definition they are redundant and while you can force them to turn up to work you can't really force them to do anything while they are there, so there's not much to gain.
Don't forget they have to try to find you alternative employment within the firm, so if there are other roles you could fill and you want to stay then see about getting one of them.
Depends on the industry and how well the management get on with him and if there are any bridges to burn.
If there is little value in his role and there are no deliverables or such like that could be proven as a loss if he was to walk then it can be difficult for the business to prove any loss thus have any recourse.
On the flip side if he is managing a project with easily proven losses for example then that could be a problem.
Personally I would say *nothing* to the management at this stage and start seeking alternative employment today.
You are generally looking at 2-3 weeks for an interview. A few days for an offer letter and most companies are ready for 4 weeks for starting. So easily a couple of months. For now I would do nothing about the notice period. Then later if interviews come start to look at how to exit and maybe have a chat with the manager about getting it down to a month but by that time you might be 2 months into it...
Also normally I would say you should stand by your contract but if the ship really is sinking then its every man for himself. I have been in this position and IME once one company has a wobble so do others and all of a sudden it can be difficult to get a new job so time really is not on your side.
If there is little value in his role and there are no deliverables or such like that could be proven as a loss if he was to walk then it can be difficult for the business to prove any loss thus have any recourse.
On the flip side if he is managing a project with easily proven losses for example then that could be a problem.
Personally I would say *nothing* to the management at this stage and start seeking alternative employment today.
You are generally looking at 2-3 weeks for an interview. A few days for an offer letter and most companies are ready for 4 weeks for starting. So easily a couple of months. For now I would do nothing about the notice period. Then later if interviews come start to look at how to exit and maybe have a chat with the manager about getting it down to a month but by that time you might be 2 months into it...
Also normally I would say you should stand by your contract but if the ship really is sinking then its every man for himself. I have been in this position and IME once one company has a wobble so do others and all of a sudden it can be difficult to get a new job so time really is not on your side.
Maverick007 said:
If he gets offered another job will he have to stick to the 3 months notice, or would it be realistic to offer a months notice instead as he has already been told he is being made redundant?
I've seen redundancy offers/agreements in the past where it is made clear that if you find alternative employment during the notice period, you walk with no redundancy settlement. I guess that particularly applies if you want to shorten that notice period, as you are seen as leaving whilst still employed? I don't know whether that is legal/enforceable, but check it, and advise your friend to keep schtum if he gets another offer until the redundancy payment is in his or her account.CAPP0 said:
I've seen redundancy offers/agreements in the past where it is made clear that if you find alternative employment during the notice period, you walk with no redundancy settlement. I guess that particularly applies if you want to shorten that notice period, as you are seen as leaving whilst still employed? I don't know whether that is legal/enforceable, but check it, and advise your friend to keep schtum if he gets another offer until the redundancy payment is in his or her account.
Great advice, especially as the OP makes it clear his friend is getting no redundancy payment al all. Lindun said:
CAPP0 said:
I've seen redundancy offers/agreements in the past where it is made clear that if you find alternative employment during the notice period, you walk with no redundancy settlement. I guess that particularly applies if you want to shorten that notice period, as you are seen as leaving whilst still employed? I don't know whether that is legal/enforceable, but check it, and advise your friend to keep schtum if he gets another offer until the redundancy payment is in his or her account.
Great advice, especially as the OP makes it clear his friend is getting no redundancy payment al all. Please accept my profuse apologies for the massive inconvenience and distress which my post, as quoted so succinctly by you, must have caused. I sincerely regret the considerable inconvenience which led to you having to take the time to point this out, an inconvenience and irritation clearly so great that you felt it you had no alternative other than to post an aggressive and mildly confrontational response. Whilst it is clearly of no comfort to you, I was unfortunately bound by the time constraints of my working day and failed to observe that salient point. I will endeavour to ensure that my actions do not cause you any further issues in future.
Yours sincerely
Cappo
(PS: Instead of being a tw@t, consider this as an alternative:
"Hey Cappo, good point but the OP said there was no redundancy payment involved, so he doesn't need to worry about that
"Spot the difference. No, I didn't think you'd be able to...)
CAPP0 said:
Lindun said:
CAPP0 said:
I've seen redundancy offers/agreements in the past where it is made clear that if you find alternative employment during the notice period, you walk with no redundancy settlement. I guess that particularly applies if you want to shorten that notice period, as you are seen as leaving whilst still employed? I don't know whether that is legal/enforceable, but check it, and advise your friend to keep schtum if he gets another offer until the redundancy payment is in his or her account.
Great advice, especially as the OP makes it clear his friend is getting no redundancy payment al all. Please accept my profuse apologies for the massive inconvenience and distress which my post, as quoted so succinctly by you, must have caused. I sincerely regret the considerable inconvenience which led to you having to take the time to point this out, an inconvenience and irritation clearly so great that you felt it you had no alternative other than to post an aggressive and mildly confrontational response. Whilst it is clearly of no comfort to you, I was unfortunately bound by the time constraints of my working day and failed to observe that salient point. I will endeavour to ensure that my actions do not cause you any further issues in future.
Yours sincerely
Cappo
(PS: Instead of being a tw@t, consider this as an alternative:
"Hey Cappo, good point but the OP said there was no redundancy payment involved, so he doesn't need to worry about that
"Spot the difference. No, I didn't think you'd be able to...)
Being held to his notice period, if he has another job then try and negotiate leaving early with the company, he is being let go anyway (does help if he can say all his work is done). Lastly he should let the new employer know his availability and he will try and improve it. Best outcome would be them letting him go early but paying the full 3 month notice period. By all means he can walk away if he wishes but does he want a future reference from them?
Having been through this recently, forcing people to work a 3 month notice as part of redundancy is tough on people and unlikely to get the best out of them, get much done and can be corrosive on other employees who are staying.
Having been through this recently, forcing people to work a 3 month notice as part of redundancy is tough on people and unlikely to get the best out of them, get much done and can be corrosive on other employees who are staying.
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