2020 bikes with Euro 5
Discussion
Year 2020 even more emission reductions than euro 4 , there is of course a route through for euro 4 bikes to be sold for a couple of years but is this year possibly the best year to experience a new super bike purchase ?
I guess everything after 2019 on a new model will be heavily restricted and compromised ,
Its not going to affect the commuter bikes but maybe stop development and the introduction of new models coming in the near future ?
I guess everything after 2019 on a new model will be heavily restricted and compromised ,
Its not going to affect the commuter bikes but maybe stop development and the introduction of new models coming in the near future ?
MrGman said:
Will manufacturers make them to pass euro5 but also have in mind a way where the consumer can easily unleash the full potential with a few mods/software changes?
From what ive read, my rough understanding is that the euro5 legislation makes it much more difficult to alter the engine from standard and any tampering will throw up fault codes which will mean a trip to the dealer..Im sure in time people will find their way around it but it'll only add to the cost I guess.Its a fair question OP and one that I had at the back of my mind as my 2018 bikes PCP deal will be up in 2020 and if Euro 5 seems to add a lot more in complexity(and price) I may be more likely to keep my current bike...
I am not sure if my 2019 MT10 is Euro 4 or Euro 5, but I've just had a bench remap, removing Exup motor, decatting it, removing fuel cutoff on decel, going closed loop to open loop fuelling by blanking off O2 sensors etc. It's way more powerful and rides so much better.
Post re-map I had 12 ECU faults (on a 5 month old 400 mile bike
) but with OBD2 reader, I was able to read and clear them all myself.
Aside from the extra power, revs, torque, speed limiter disabling etc the primary motivation was to improve throttle feel as it was digital as hell. Way better to ride. If Euro 5 bikes are like this and worse I can see continued business in removing all the gubbins and re-maps that make the throttles actually work.
The only annoying thing is my warranty is toast, but it's worth it as basically I wasn't gelling with the bike in stock form due to the throttle - made worse by extra leanness following the de-cat without a remap.
Post re-map I had 12 ECU faults (on a 5 month old 400 mile bike
) but with OBD2 reader, I was able to read and clear them all myself.Aside from the extra power, revs, torque, speed limiter disabling etc the primary motivation was to improve throttle feel as it was digital as hell. Way better to ride. If Euro 5 bikes are like this and worse I can see continued business in removing all the gubbins and re-maps that make the throttles actually work.
The only annoying thing is my warranty is toast, but it's worth it as basically I wasn't gelling with the bike in stock form due to the throttle - made worse by extra leanness following the de-cat without a remap.
3DP said:
....
The only annoying thing is my warranty is toast, but it's worth it as basically I wasn't gelling with the bike in stock form due to the throttle - made worse by extra leanness following the de-cat without a remap.
Same for me, I had to flash my GSXR1000R, it has terribly snatchy low-rev throttle otherwise. Warranty is toast but I am keeping the bike so no big deal.The only annoying thing is my warranty is toast, but it's worth it as basically I wasn't gelling with the bike in stock form due to the throttle - made worse by extra leanness following the de-cat without a remap.
I was thinking of treating myself at the end of the year to a new bike , I was told by a ktm dealer that ktm are working on a 2020 1290r but it will be nothing like the euro 4 bike and may not even happen.
The 2019 Tuono is a strange one, its a Euro 4 bike so I guess they can only make that bike until the end of the year at most .
Is there any super bike being sold at the moment that's Euro 5? My guess is we are going to see existing models sold with all sorts of crap bolted to them .
The 2019 Tuono is a strange one, its a Euro 4 bike so I guess they can only make that bike until the end of the year at most .
Is there any super bike being sold at the moment that's Euro 5? My guess is we are going to see existing models sold with all sorts of crap bolted to them .
3DP said:
I am not sure if my 2019 MT10 is Euro 4 or Euro 5, but I've just had a bench remap, removing Exup motor, decatting it, removing fuel cutoff on decel, going closed loop to open loop fuelling by blanking off O2 sensors etc. It's way more powerful and rides so much better.
Post re-map I had 12 ECU faults (on a 5 month old 400 mile bike ) but with OBD2 reader, I was able to read and clear them all myself.
Aside from the extra power, revs, torque, speed limiter disabling etc the primary motivation was to improve throttle feel as it was digital as hell. Way better to ride. If Euro 5 bikes are like this and worse I can see continued business in removing all the gubbins and re-maps that make the throttles actually work.
The only annoying thing is my warranty is toast, but it's worth it as basically I wasn't gelling with the bike in stock form due to the throttle - made worse by extra leanness following the de-cat without a remap.
+1Post re-map I had 12 ECU faults (on a 5 month old 400 mile bike
) but with OBD2 reader, I was able to read and clear them all myself.Aside from the extra power, revs, torque, speed limiter disabling etc the primary motivation was to improve throttle feel as it was digital as hell. Way better to ride. If Euro 5 bikes are like this and worse I can see continued business in removing all the gubbins and re-maps that make the throttles actually work.
The only annoying thing is my warranty is toast, but it's worth it as basically I wasn't gelling with the bike in stock form due to the throttle - made worse by extra leanness following the de-cat without a remap.
I had an early 2013 BMW GS1200 (when the liquid cooled version came out) and it had it's 'lean cruise' circuit set so lean for emissions purposes that whilst in cruise mode (i.e. 5-10% throttle) on the motorway, the thing was constantly surging. Open loop is the way forward with a decent map (i.e. to include lots of throttle & load sites). Unfortunately, no one could unlock the BMW OEM ECU at the time, so the bike got sold.
A good interview with a chap at Ricardo engineering: https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-vie...
Basically, some bikes that don't sell well will go to the wall, flagships will be updated, and the ones that are long in the tooth (e.g. Honda/Yamaha litre bikes) will get fresh engines.
As ever with an emissions change there will be a bit of fuss, but ultimately the clever engineers will make it work. The 1290 KTM will inevitably be sorted - they've got plenty of money and a relatively low-revving and torquey engine will be a lot easier to get through than a screamer with lots of valve overlap.
The biggest change will be having to fudge around when decatting or changing exhausts - chances are you'll have twin lambda and fussy sensors etc that will need mapping out or ignoring.
Basically, some bikes that don't sell well will go to the wall, flagships will be updated, and the ones that are long in the tooth (e.g. Honda/Yamaha litre bikes) will get fresh engines.
As ever with an emissions change there will be a bit of fuss, but ultimately the clever engineers will make it work. The 1290 KTM will inevitably be sorted - they've got plenty of money and a relatively low-revving and torquey engine will be a lot easier to get through than a screamer with lots of valve overlap.
The biggest change will be having to fudge around when decatting or changing exhausts - chances are you'll have twin lambda and fussy sensors etc that will need mapping out or ignoring.
mak said:
I was thinking of treating myself at the end of the year to a new bike , I was told by a ktm dealer that ktm are working on a 2020 1290r but it will be nothing like the euro 4 bike and may not even happen.
The 2019 Tuono is a strange one, its a Euro 4 bike so I guess they can only make that bike until the end of the year at most .
Is there any super bike being sold at the moment that's Euro 5? My guess is we are going to see existing models sold with all sorts of crap bolted to them .
I think BMW S1000RR is Euro5-ready.The 2019 Tuono is a strange one, its a Euro 4 bike so I guess they can only make that bike until the end of the year at most .
Is there any super bike being sold at the moment that's Euro 5? My guess is we are going to see existing models sold with all sorts of crap bolted to them .
morebeanz said:
I suspect that it won't be long until the sort of modifications that you're talking about and doing will make the bike unroadworthy in legal terms. That is the likely next step beyond Warranty voiding. It's a sad state of affairs, but there you go...
this is already soKrikkit said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
I think BMW S1000RR is Euro5-ready.
Yep, the variable lift and timing make it relatively easy for them.Krikkit said:
A good interview with a chap at Ricardo engineering: https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-vie...
Basically, some bikes that don't sell well will go to the wall, flagships will be updated, and the ones that are long in the tooth (e.g. Honda/Yamaha litre bikes) will get fresh engines.
As ever with an emissions change there will be a bit of fuss, but ultimately the clever engineers will make it work. The 1290 KTM will inevitably be sorted - they've got plenty of money and a relatively low-revving and torquey engine will be a lot easier to get through than a screamer with lots of valve overlap.
The biggest change will be having to fudge around when decatting or changing exhausts - chances are you'll have twin lambda and fussy sensors etc that will need mapping out or ignoring.
Great article, pretty much sums up manufacturers ongoing development.Basically, some bikes that don't sell well will go to the wall, flagships will be updated, and the ones that are long in the tooth (e.g. Honda/Yamaha litre bikes) will get fresh engines.
As ever with an emissions change there will be a bit of fuss, but ultimately the clever engineers will make it work. The 1290 KTM will inevitably be sorted - they've got plenty of money and a relatively low-revving and torquey engine will be a lot easier to get through than a screamer with lots of valve overlap.
The biggest change will be having to fudge around when decatting or changing exhausts - chances are you'll have twin lambda and fussy sensors etc that will need mapping out or ignoring.
Thanks for the link KK
Very informative that link, it would seem reading between the lines and the secrecy euro 5 is more than a pain in the arse for bike manufactures , As far as Aprilia go there new rsv4 1100 is still only euro 4 as is the tuono , does that mean they cannot manufacture that bike after 2019 without either a total redesign or sticking stuff on it to comply ?
It will be interesting to see what new bikes will be revealed at the shows towards the end of the year ,
It will be interesting to see what new bikes will be revealed at the shows towards the end of the year ,
Andy XRV said:
3DP said:
I am not sure if my 2019 MT10 is Euro 4 or Euro 5, but I've just had a bench remap, removing Exup motor, decatting it, removing fuel cutoff on decel, going closed loop to open loop fuelling by blanking off O2 sensors etc.
Not too many modifications then..
Mods:
Remove Euro 4 side reflectors
Remove cat and mid system
Remove 2 x O2 sensors and unplug from loom
Remove EXUP cables x 2
Remove EXUP motor
Remove charcoal evap canister
Remove rear mudguard
Re-map ECU with Woolich software
Fit Leo Vince Decat mid section
Fit O2 sensor blanking plugs
Fit O2 sensor loom blanking connectors
Fit EvoTec tail tidy
Fit breather rubber hose to tank (replacing short hose to charcoal canister)
Remap/woolich software includes:
Remove top speed limiter
Raise rev limiter
Remove decel fuel cut off
Change fuel map to fuel correctly appropriate for mods and for performance rather than emmissions (part throttle leaness is up to 17:1 AF ratio as standard!)
Change electronic Throttle valve maps is mode 1 and mode 2 (mode 1 made 1:1 to give pseudo quick action throttle).
Reduce fan operating temps (95deg on 90deg off)
Disable Exhaust valve (allows removal)
Disable O2 sensors (allows removal and open loop fuel mapping)
Disable PAIRS (optional - I kept enabled as increases flames and crackles).
So yeah - a few mods and hence warranty is toast
Did I mention the 4th gear off the throttle wheelies now??
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