Rest periods and being 'on call'
Discussion
Hopefully this is the right section, it's employment law after all.
My brother has recently started a new job. This week they've told him it's his turn to be on call, he knew he'd have to do it at some point but how his company does it doesn't sound right to me.
He works during the day normally, start 8ish and finishes at 6ish normally. He's been told he's then on call until he starts work at 8:30am the next day? So through the whole night between two normal day shifts? The first night he got two callouts in the early hours, ended up just going straight to his first job of the second day rather than go home he was exhausted by the time he finished.
He's just called me, tonight he's finishing now, he's on call till the 8am start of his regular shift tomorrow, finishes at 1pm in the afternoon and is then on call through the whole weekend till when he starts his day shift monday morning?!
I have no experience of being on call but surely that's not right? He's allowed to go home while on call so I know he doesn't have to be paid unless he gets called out etc but he must be entitled to some kinda period of rest each day/24 hour period?
He spoke to his immediate manager saying he was knackered, they said he can sleep until he gets called out and the other guy has no issues.
My brother has recently started a new job. This week they've told him it's his turn to be on call, he knew he'd have to do it at some point but how his company does it doesn't sound right to me.
He works during the day normally, start 8ish and finishes at 6ish normally. He's been told he's then on call until he starts work at 8:30am the next day? So through the whole night between two normal day shifts? The first night he got two callouts in the early hours, ended up just going straight to his first job of the second day rather than go home he was exhausted by the time he finished.
He's just called me, tonight he's finishing now, he's on call till the 8am start of his regular shift tomorrow, finishes at 1pm in the afternoon and is then on call through the whole weekend till when he starts his day shift monday morning?!
I have no experience of being on call but surely that's not right? He's allowed to go home while on call so I know he doesn't have to be paid unless he gets called out etc but he must be entitled to some kinda period of rest each day/24 hour period?
He spoke to his immediate manager saying he was knackered, they said he can sleep until he gets called out and the other guy has no issues.
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
No idea if this is relevant. There may be workarounds employers use in some circumstances.
I know (as a nurse), if I'm going from a late (9pm) finish to an early (7am) start it breaches the rules and I get a WTD payment in my wages each month to reflect these breaches.
No idea if this is relevant. There may be workarounds employers use in some circumstances.
I know (as a nurse), if I'm going from a late (9pm) finish to an early (7am) start it breaches the rules and I get a WTD payment in my wages each month to reflect these breaches.
CaptainMorgan said:
Hopefully this is the right section, it's employment law after all.
My brother has recently started a new job. This week they've told him it's his turn to be on call, he knew he'd have to do it at some point but how his company does it doesn't sound right to me.
He works during the day normally, start 8ish and finishes at 6ish normally. He's been told he's then on call until he starts work at 8:30am the next day? So through the whole night between two normal day shifts? The first night he got two callouts in the early hours, ended up just going straight to his first job of the second day rather than go home he was exhausted by the time he finished.
He's just called me, tonight he's finishing now, he's on call till the 8am start of his regular shift tomorrow, finishes at 1pm in the afternoon and is then on call through the whole weekend till when he starts his day shift monday morning?!
I have no experience of being on call but surely that's not right? He's allowed to go home while on call so I know he doesn't have to be paid unless he gets called out etc but he must be entitled to some kinda period of rest each day/24 hour period?
He spoke to his immediate manager saying he was knackered, they said he can sleep until he gets called out and the other guy has no issues.
That's not unusual for an on call system. If called out you then normally get a sensible rest period before coming in the next day. My brother has recently started a new job. This week they've told him it's his turn to be on call, he knew he'd have to do it at some point but how his company does it doesn't sound right to me.
He works during the day normally, start 8ish and finishes at 6ish normally. He's been told he's then on call until he starts work at 8:30am the next day? So through the whole night between two normal day shifts? The first night he got two callouts in the early hours, ended up just going straight to his first job of the second day rather than go home he was exhausted by the time he finished.
He's just called me, tonight he's finishing now, he's on call till the 8am start of his regular shift tomorrow, finishes at 1pm in the afternoon and is then on call through the whole weekend till when he starts his day shift monday morning?!
I have no experience of being on call but surely that's not right? He's allowed to go home while on call so I know he doesn't have to be paid unless he gets called out etc but he must be entitled to some kinda period of rest each day/24 hour period?
He spoke to his immediate manager saying he was knackered, they said he can sleep until he gets called out and the other guy has no issues.
In return they generally pay you reasonably well for the privelage of ruining your social life :-)
Assume he asked how often the Rota was and the payments before accepting job. It's nothing out of the ordinary.
200Plus Club said:
That's not unusual for an on call system. If called out you then normally get a sensible rest period before coming in the next day.
In return they generally pay you reasonably well for the privelage of ruining your social life :-)
Assume he asked how often the Rota was and the payments before accepting job. It's nothing out of the ordinary.
He gets a small allowance for being on call then a certain amount for each call out, the money is crap but he's a tyre fitter and it is what it is, that's not the issue though. In return they generally pay you reasonably well for the privelage of ruining your social life :-)
Assume he asked how often the Rota was and the payments before accepting job. It's nothing out of the ordinary.
It's the lack of rest periods that surprise me, to expect someone to work for example Thursday 0800-1800 on their normal shift, then be on call as soon as they finishes at 1800, do call outs through the night and then be back at work for 0800 on the Friday working through till 1800 again seems mad. I'm surprised people can function for 34 hours surviving on naps let alone for it to be classed as ordinary!
Thank christ I dont do this stuff
andy118run said:
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
No idea if this is relevant. There may be workarounds employers use in some circumstances.
I know (as a nurse), if I'm going from a late (9pm) finish to an early (7am) start it breaches the rules and I get a WTD payment in my wages each month to reflect these breaches.
Our (driving) hours are only minimum 10 hours between shifts (which can be reduced further with our agreement) No idea if this is relevant. There may be workarounds employers use in some circumstances.
I know (as a nurse), if I'm going from a late (9pm) finish to an early (7am) start it breaches the rules and I get a WTD payment in my wages each month to reflect these breaches.
Very strange.
Thesprucegoose said:
does he drive a van, if so he should be covered under eu drivers law for rest and hours worked.
I assumed driving rules only applied to 3.5 tonne + vehicles, I'll have to look into it. Thesprucegoose said:
only 2 times a week, to 9 i think. bit rusty.
Almost, 8.5 hours min, twice a week. yes sorry gb rules apply less than 3.5 tonnes.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules
if you driver over 4 hours.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules
if you driver over 4 hours.
CaptainMorgan said:
He gets a small allowance for being on call then a certain amount for each call out, the money is crap but he's a tyre fitter and it is what it is, that's not the issue though.
It's the lack of rest periods that surprise me, to expect someone to work for example Thursday 0800-1800 on their normal shift, then be on call as soon as they finishes at 1800, do call outs through the night and then be back at work for 0800 on the Friday working through till 1800 again seems mad. I'm surprised people can function for 34 hours surviving on naps let alone for it to be classed as ordinary!
Thank christ I dont do this stuff
The Rota etc isn't unusual, and it's upto him if he accepts the pay or not, he'll move on if not I guess.It's the lack of rest periods that surprise me, to expect someone to work for example Thursday 0800-1800 on their normal shift, then be on call as soon as they finishes at 1800, do call outs through the night and then be back at work for 0800 on the Friday working through till 1800 again seems mad. I'm surprised people can function for 34 hours surviving on naps let alone for it to be classed as ordinary!
Thank christ I dont do this stuff
Ilovejapcrap said:
nothing out of the norm, how due you think people like utilities work who need to cont work 24/7 every day of the year. They would get a sleep time of some description if out all night mind.
I understand that, most industries are 24/7 now, that wasn't really my point though lol. 200Plus Club said:
The Rota etc isn't unusual, and it's upto him if he accepts the pay or not, he'll move on if not I guess.
Fair enough, I've been very lucky then in my work life then, I struggled with a 'double' 16 hour shift and could barely keep my eyes open, let alone double that again. Hats off to the guys that can do that and still function properly. As I said, the money wasn't what I was questioning, he's aware of what he gets paid. Thanks for all the replies anyway, certainly opened my eyes a bit. I'm gonna check with my union next week but at least for now I can let him know it's normal to work 4 days and 3 nights in a row without any time off. It's just him on call and he seems to be getting 3 or 4 call outs a night so he's in for a long old weekend.
If he doesn't get called out he gets his rest break plus the Rota payment though. Swings and roundabouts. Some places do a week of on call, some do 3 nights, some people work a week of night shifts then 4 days off as long as rest breaks are averaged over a 13 week period it can be legally covered is my understanding
Mobile commercial tyre fitter the job has ever been thus and will continue to be hence I got out it’s a young mans game too.
Should usually be one week a month on call and can make a fair bit of money doing call outs.
Some companies do allow a later start if you’ve been called out at zero dark thirty.
If he kicks up too much of a stink he’ll end up out of a job as truck fitters aren’t hard to find or train.
Good ones are very hard to find
It’s physically demanding mentally draining and very dangerous as most folk don’t realise.
nothing worse than doing a days graft just dropping off to sleep and the phone rings for a call out.
Or 4 am banging with rain in middle of winter on hard shoulder of m62 swinging a 14lb sledgehammer
I have a lot of mates who are in the trade and have huge amounts of respect for them. But the hours can be a killer. So can the job very easily
Just my experience from a past life I did enjoy it was good for a laugh
Should usually be one week a month on call and can make a fair bit of money doing call outs.
Some companies do allow a later start if you’ve been called out at zero dark thirty.
If he kicks up too much of a stink he’ll end up out of a job as truck fitters aren’t hard to find or train.
Good ones are very hard to find
It’s physically demanding mentally draining and very dangerous as most folk don’t realise.
nothing worse than doing a days graft just dropping off to sleep and the phone rings for a call out.
Or 4 am banging with rain in middle of winter on hard shoulder of m62 swinging a 14lb sledgehammer
I have a lot of mates who are in the trade and have huge amounts of respect for them. But the hours can be a killer. So can the job very easily
Just my experience from a past life I did enjoy it was good for a laugh
If he doesn't get called out, those shifts are legal. If he does, they're simply not. If he works 8 till 6 and then gets called out until,say, 3am, he has the legal right not to turn up until 2pm the next day. 11 hours between shifts, it's not a difficult concept.
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
Mrs fumbles mcstupid doesn’t care about the rules or the man trying to make a living and get reasonable rest and sleep.
when her powered unicorn horn that helps with her chin lift won’t arrive on time as it’s sat on a truck with a flat tyre instead of being delivered to her in a timely fashion.
It is a much discussed topic within the trade that has connotations for every household as most freight is moved on trucks in the uk.
I understand and agree the law around working hours is the law but out of hours commercial tyre fitting amongst others operate in a grey area regarding hours and such like.
I will reiterate be careful on how much noise you or he makes regarding the subject at work as he will end up out of a job
when her powered unicorn horn that helps with her chin lift won’t arrive on time as it’s sat on a truck with a flat tyre instead of being delivered to her in a timely fashion.
It is a much discussed topic within the trade that has connotations for every household as most freight is moved on trucks in the uk.
I understand and agree the law around working hours is the law but out of hours commercial tyre fitting amongst others operate in a grey area regarding hours and such like.
I will reiterate be careful on how much noise you or he makes regarding the subject at work as he will end up out of a job
There are no grey hours about this, it's a minimum11 hours rest in twenty four hour period. The driving to and from a job is also classed as working time. Regardless of any regulations and you drive when your tired and cause an accident or death the employer will not support you. It is up to the individual to decide if they are fit to work. I did 25 years working on a call out system where management tried to argue otherwise many times but never provided evidence to the contrary.
speedyman said:
There are no grey hours about this, it's a minimum11 hours rest in twenty four hour period. The driving to and from a job is also classed as working time. Regardless of any regulations and you drive when your tired and cause an accident or death the employer will not support you. It is up to the individual to decide if they are fit to work. I did 25 years working on a call out system where management tried to argue otherwise many times but never provided evidence to the contrary.
I do agree with you completely I’m sharing my knowledge and experience of the industry.
Not everyone is a company director
The industry is rife with this sort of behaviour.
Imagine if you can that you’ve been earning minimum wage and end up with a job where basic isn’t the best but better than minimum wage then on top with call out can earn 40k plus a year.
To achieve that sort of money means putting up with crap conditions doing call outs for a week once a month or going back to minimum wage. Most of the folk I know in the industry choose to put up with it as it’s seen as the norm.
It is wrong and is dangerous I agree but it will continue ever thus as the ones who kick up a stink end up out of a job and the industry.
I have seen it happen wrong or right and chose to get out of the industry.
Lawful or not I doubt anything will change as ultimately it would cost every household.
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