A car to give bike like freedom
Discussion
This is PH so the answer will be an MX5... tbh i will do this in the z4 from time to time (costs me next to nothing to run: tax and insurance is less than £500): it’s not too bad a place to be, right wheel drive and enough pace from a 3L NA straight 6 for overtakes as required. not quite the same as being on a bike, but you certainly feel connected to the outside world, and with the roof down, the right road and a bit of space 
Took my daughter (6 - at her request) out for a drive and went to a pub down by the river for something to eat last Sunday or like tonight when I finally get off of this train i’ll just take a longer route home to take advantage of some nice weather and country roads.
On the image side of things you are always going to look a bit of a cock in a convertible, at least you can retain some anonymity wearing a lid on a bike
Took my daughter (6 - at her request) out for a drive and went to a pub down by the river for something to eat last Sunday or like tonight when I finally get off of this train i’ll just take a longer route home to take advantage of some nice weather and country roads.
On the image side of things you are always going to look a bit of a cock in a convertible, at least you can retain some anonymity wearing a lid on a bike
A500leroy said:
Does such a car exist?
Its not about speed, its about the thrill of going somewhere for no reason, being out in the fresh air etc etc, i guess it would be a convertible?
Its subjective. You can get that feeling in a Nissan Micra under the right circumstance. You take a sunny Friday night and an open road with the right tunes and could be driving anything at all. As long as you're driving. Its not about speed, its about the thrill of going somewhere for no reason, being out in the fresh air etc etc, i guess it would be a convertible?
I guess that is a matter of preferences.
I've had a number of cars, manual and PDK, NA and turbocharged, tuned and stock.
The 982 Boxster S (exhibition car from Zuffenhausen, 80k CHF car + 80k CHF options, so fully optioned but TV, importantly sport suspension, sport exhaust, ceramic brakes, PDK) was close to the feel of bike but I was too scared to drive it aggressively, it was too beautiful.
Currently I am on my second manual E86 Z4 3.0Si.
I had a coupe before, now I have a convertible, with M seats, M steering wheel, and 255 section rear tires.
The car has no LSD, but the traction from the rear tires in dry is very strong.
For me, this Z4 convertible is the closest I came to a bike in a car so far:
- it is not particularly heavy (1400kg)
- it is not turbocharged and not overpowered but enough-powered (265hp, 315nm) so I can keep the engine spinning without fear of losing traction and I get relatively good forward propulsion (unlike, say, MX-5), plus it is an I-6, very smooth with a creamy sound
- it is absolutely tiny, outside and inside, I sit over back wheel so I know exactly where the rear is, and I have very good idea where the front is as well, but it is also very narrow, so open the roof, lower the windows, and I can place it on the curb with millimeter precision, so I can drive the mountain hairpins very precisely and as fast as I can ride a bike.
I still think a bike is more fun, even though I am very risk-averse and my skills are limited to say the least.
And when you hit traffic/queues, there is no car that gives you bike freedom. I can overtake very fast in my modded 997 Turbo, but I cannot filter in it.
(not showing off, just love to look at these cars myself. I love 911.)
I've had a number of cars, manual and PDK, NA and turbocharged, tuned and stock.
The 982 Boxster S (exhibition car from Zuffenhausen, 80k CHF car + 80k CHF options, so fully optioned but TV, importantly sport suspension, sport exhaust, ceramic brakes, PDK) was close to the feel of bike but I was too scared to drive it aggressively, it was too beautiful.
Currently I am on my second manual E86 Z4 3.0Si.
I had a coupe before, now I have a convertible, with M seats, M steering wheel, and 255 section rear tires.
The car has no LSD, but the traction from the rear tires in dry is very strong.
For me, this Z4 convertible is the closest I came to a bike in a car so far:
- it is not particularly heavy (1400kg)
- it is not turbocharged and not overpowered but enough-powered (265hp, 315nm) so I can keep the engine spinning without fear of losing traction and I get relatively good forward propulsion (unlike, say, MX-5), plus it is an I-6, very smooth with a creamy sound
- it is absolutely tiny, outside and inside, I sit over back wheel so I know exactly where the rear is, and I have very good idea where the front is as well, but it is also very narrow, so open the roof, lower the windows, and I can place it on the curb with millimeter precision, so I can drive the mountain hairpins very precisely and as fast as I can ride a bike.
I still think a bike is more fun, even though I am very risk-averse and my skills are limited to say the least.
And when you hit traffic/queues, there is no car that gives you bike freedom. I can overtake very fast in my modded 997 Turbo, but I cannot filter in it.
(not showing off, just love to look at these cars myself. I love 911.)
Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Thursday 16th May 20:06
Well it is subjective and budget comes into it. I had a mac1 type 9r with a blade engine, similar to a mk or mnr. There are Westfields with busa lumps
The performance upto 120 is fairly good for what it is and the noise makes it feel quicker
With decent tyres, suspension etc they don't hang about on the twisties
The performance upto 120 is fairly good for what it is and the noise makes it feel quicker
With decent tyres, suspension etc they don't hang about on the twisties
MDUBZ said:
This is PH so the answer will be an MX5... tbh i will do this in the z4 from time to time (costs me next to nothing to run: tax and insurance is less than £500): it’s not too bad a place to be, right wheel drive and enough pace from a 3L NA straight 6 for overtakes as required. not quite the same as being on a bike, but you certainly feel connected to the outside world, and with the roof down, the right road and a bit of space
Took my daughter (6 - at her request) out for a drive and went to a pub down by the river for something to eat last Sunday or like tonight when I finally get off of this train i’ll just take a longer route home to take advantage of some nice weather and country roads.
On the image side of things you are always going to look a bit of a cock in a convertible, at least you can retain some anonymity wearing a lid on a bike
kindred soul, I see! Took my daughter (6 - at her request) out for a drive and went to a pub down by the river for something to eat last Sunday or like tonight when I finally get off of this train i’ll just take a longer route home to take advantage of some nice weather and country roads.
On the image side of things you are always going to look a bit of a cock in a convertible, at least you can retain some anonymity wearing a lid on a bike
E85/E86 Z4 are magnficent, and as you rightly noticed very cheap to run.
Interior materials are not the best but they are very nicely screwed together, nothing creaks and nothing breaks (except for rear springs, the car suspension is freaking hard!)
Maybe this is a good alternative to a bike, IF you have the skills, that is!
S1000RR engine spinning at 12k all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9IkdY7fvs
S1000RR engine spinning at 12k all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di9IkdY7fvs
308mate said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
Z4 3.0 or Z3 M Roadster? 
I havent driven the Z4 3.0, I have driven the Z4 MCoupe and Z3 M roadster. For me the Z3m Roadster has it but it could be the roof-down factor.
I also drove Z4M convertible. Now these are fine cars! Besides the iconic engine they have LSD. I did not buy it because my gf did not warm up to it for some reason (but she loved the Boxster we bought later from the first sight!). She liked the Z4 3.0Si Coupe, go figure, even though she side bolsters of the sport seats were in her way (she is not particularly tall at 5.5).
I now bought this E86 Z4 3.0Si convertible, also with M seats, and she loves it (women...).
I think Z4 coupes look better than convertibles, but convertibles have better "bike" feeling when one lowers the roof and the windows. Roof-down-factor is very important!
In the end, imho, Z4 design remains and will remain fresh, while Z3s have aged quite a bit. Only Z3M coupes are still exciting to look at, as they look so weird. All is imho.
Ho Lee Kau said:
kindred soul, I see!
E85/E86 Z4 are magnficent, and as you rightly noticed very cheap to run.
Interior materials are not the best but they are very nicely screwed together, nothing creaks and nothing breaks (except for rear springs, the car suspension is freaking hard!)
I wouldn't mind your car history. E85/E86 Z4 are magnficent, and as you rightly noticed very cheap to run.
Interior materials are not the best but they are very nicely screwed together, nothing creaks and nothing breaks (except for rear springs, the car suspension is freaking hard!)
I have changed the suspension (b12 pro kit), poly bushed it and ditched the run flats ( still rides very hard): it certainly doesn't like it when it's bumpy but it has loads of grip. I will probably get round to sorting the exhaust at some point as stock is heavy and doesn't do the engine justice imho
You can picky up leggy 3.0si for about 4 or 5K in the UK. I bought mine 5 years ago and cant see me selling it tbh: If I wanted to replace it with something, I fancy an f type, it would cost me north of 40K and I dont think I'd see much increase in fun. So I could spend the money on another bike
I had a modified Lotus Elise for the years I lived down South with no garage. I used to love driving that just for fun, lots of club activities, track stuff etc. roof off on a sunny day its not quite the same as a bike but as close to it gets on 4 wheels. A Caterham or Ariel offer a similar experience, an Elise is the slightly more practical of these cars for daily use or holidays.
The only thing is none of these are cheap any longer as they are really weekend toys that are in continued demand by enthusiasts. However if you have the cash to invest in well looked after earlier model, they are pretty much depreciation proof.
The only thing is none of these are cheap any longer as they are really weekend toys that are in continued demand by enthusiasts. However if you have the cash to invest in well looked after earlier model, they are pretty much depreciation proof.
I'd suggest a really chavvy Honda Civic with a turbo as being similar to a bike in many way:
- Cheap relative to the straight line performance
- Revvy
- No front plate
- Antisocially loud
- Police will assume you're up to no good
- Wife will refuse to have anything to do with it
- Other people owning similar models will think you're their mate even if you want nothing to do with them.
- Knobheads will keep trying to race you
- Probably going to get stolen and stripped for parts, if you manage not to write it off first
- Cheap relative to the straight line performance
- Revvy
- No front plate
- Antisocially loud
- Police will assume you're up to no good
- Wife will refuse to have anything to do with it
- Other people owning similar models will think you're their mate even if you want nothing to do with them.
- Knobheads will keep trying to race you
- Probably going to get stolen and stripped for parts, if you manage not to write it off first
A500leroy said:
Does such a car exist?
Its not about speed, its about the thrill of going somewhere for no reason, being out in the fresh air etc etc, i guess it would be a convertible?
Apart from the obvious Caterham, Ariel type cars one can approach the same question from the opposite end i.e. what bikes are more like a car. Its not about speed, its about the thrill of going somewhere for no reason, being out in the fresh air etc etc, i guess it would be a convertible?
Quadro 4 wheeled scooter for example:
https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/four-whee...
Then there are the 3 wheeler scooters with two front wheels, very popular in the cities like the Piaggio MP3 or at the other end of that tricycle scale back more towards car like was stuff like the Morgan 3 wheelers and the Grinnall scorpion.
Honestly though if its not about speed, if you're someone like me who got their car licence back in the 90s, just take the CBT and pick up a 125 and have some fun. It's what I will be doing soon, just can't find the time to do a direct conversion course and with no motorways near me just cross country and villages/small towns it should work OK.
I lost interest in fast cars when I got my first bike at 23, it’s a 75 bhp 600cc Kawasaki GPZ, made in 1985.
I still have it 19 years on (along with 3 others) , and have spent the last couple of years getting it back up to spec.
It’s relatively slow, uncomfortable, handles interestingly and the brakes suck compared to modern stuff.
But I still took a 40 mile detour on the way home from work the other night because it was so much fun.
I have a car I really like but it’s a cosseting thing for lazy overtakes. And I generally keep my detours to about 10 miles.
My friends have had some scary machinery over the years but I’ve never found anything close to bikes for sheer immersion. You never forget the visceral rush the first time you really go for it on a powerful bike.
So essentially, you can buy whatever you like, it may be fast and harsh but it’s still nowhere near bikes as an experience as far as I’m concerned.
I still have it 19 years on (along with 3 others) , and have spent the last couple of years getting it back up to spec.
It’s relatively slow, uncomfortable, handles interestingly and the brakes suck compared to modern stuff.
But I still took a 40 mile detour on the way home from work the other night because it was so much fun.
I have a car I really like but it’s a cosseting thing for lazy overtakes. And I generally keep my detours to about 10 miles.
My friends have had some scary machinery over the years but I’ve never found anything close to bikes for sheer immersion. You never forget the visceral rush the first time you really go for it on a powerful bike.
So essentially, you can buy whatever you like, it may be fast and harsh but it’s still nowhere near bikes as an experience as far as I’m concerned.
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