Discussion
Good day to all reading this.
(Long post incoming - apologies)
My Mother in law has a 1958 Austin A35. Some of you may know this already or have read elsewhere on the forums.
This car was given to her by her father, a chap called Billy Owen, who served his apprenticeship at the old Austin motor works in Longbridge, that later merged with Morris, Jaguar etc to form British Motor Holdings, that later became part of British Leyland.
When the war effort got more severe towards the end of his apprenticeship he joined the Royal Engineers and was one of many who took part in the D-Day landings. He was one of the lucky ones that somehow managed to survive (god rest in peace all that suffered that terrible end)
After the war he set up a garage in Leek in Staffordshire, mainly working on and dealing BMH/BLMC cars of the era (i don't have any photos unfortunately, although I'll ask around in the family to see if there are any). During his life he had several A30/A35s. Two that remained were a black 2 door A35, and a Palm green 2 door A35.
The black one (3537E) was given to my MIL when she passed her test around the age of 18/19 and has remained with her ever since. It has been up/down to brighton a lot and was used extensively for many years. It still has its original Staffordshire number plate. It has been off the road for about 18 years now, although over the last 5 years it has been (very slowly) being nursed back to life with a "only do it if it needs it" mentality. It must've been in the family for around 50years now.
Its steering is vague to say the least, its brakes are less than great, it did overheat and it whines. Add in to this its lived outside its entire life. It's had new sills about 8years ago, but I think if you looked around it a bit more and poked it a bit, there's lots more welding that could be done.
Here are some pictures of it 3 years ago at our wedding, it made it 250yard to the village hall under it's own steam... just. Our main wedding car was (i believe) a Humber 9/20. I stand to be corrected on the model, that was kindly offered by a chap in the village.
The Palm green one stayed with Billy and his wife (Eileen) up to the late 90s, when it was sold. Billy died in the early 2000s and Eileen followed in 2015. Here's some pictures we believe was taken in the mid/late 90s. The car is still about somewhere as it is taxed and is on the club register, although the current owner is not known.
3537E was originally taken off the road because it overheated and needed some welding. The seats were removed and retrimmed and didn't go back in until last year. A new headlining has been fitted. New front cylinders were bought and fitted and the master cylinder was overhauled, meaning the brakes now work as well as they ever did (not very).
Now comes to the tricky bit. Within the next year or so when I have freed up a space in the garage it will be coming to live with us. This is a car that will not be sold.
I have a dilemma. My MIL is of the opinion that it needs to be 100% original and shouldn't be "messed about with". My argument is that it was originally designed for much smaller, slower roads with much less traffic.
Driving it with its 948cc 34bhp engine, small drums on the front and rod actuated rear brakes and vague steering is frankly dangerous in modern times. As such it won't be driven as much and wont be enjoyed and will likely continue to languish as it has done for years. Lets not forget that overheating and whining was one of the reasons why it was pulled from the road in the first place.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've started collecting parts to make it a much more usable classic car, with period choice upgrades. I already have a midget rear axle with hydraulic rear brakes, a 3.7 tall diff, and all the parts required to do a midget disc brake conversion at the front too. I now have the opportunity to buy a 1275 A-series and a matching ribbed gearbox. I'm also on the hunt for an A40 mk2 steering box as that's supposed to be about the best steering upgrade.
I could probably get away with the steering and brake mods as a matter of "critical safety", but with a 1275 engine I'd want to upgrade the radiator, lower the ride height and fit some ARBs. Which probably wouldn't go down too well and is a "visible" mod.
If the legacy is to continue, then the car should be enjoyed and turned into a proper family heirloom. Its never going to be worth a fortune.
My worry is that I don't want it turned into Triggers Broom, or upset my in-laws by making it a usable car in modern traffic.
What are the thoughts of the collective?!
(Long post incoming - apologies)
My Mother in law has a 1958 Austin A35. Some of you may know this already or have read elsewhere on the forums.
This car was given to her by her father, a chap called Billy Owen, who served his apprenticeship at the old Austin motor works in Longbridge, that later merged with Morris, Jaguar etc to form British Motor Holdings, that later became part of British Leyland.
When the war effort got more severe towards the end of his apprenticeship he joined the Royal Engineers and was one of many who took part in the D-Day landings. He was one of the lucky ones that somehow managed to survive (god rest in peace all that suffered that terrible end)
After the war he set up a garage in Leek in Staffordshire, mainly working on and dealing BMH/BLMC cars of the era (i don't have any photos unfortunately, although I'll ask around in the family to see if there are any). During his life he had several A30/A35s. Two that remained were a black 2 door A35, and a Palm green 2 door A35.
The black one (3537E) was given to my MIL when she passed her test around the age of 18/19 and has remained with her ever since. It has been up/down to brighton a lot and was used extensively for many years. It still has its original Staffordshire number plate. It has been off the road for about 18 years now, although over the last 5 years it has been (very slowly) being nursed back to life with a "only do it if it needs it" mentality. It must've been in the family for around 50years now.
Its steering is vague to say the least, its brakes are less than great, it did overheat and it whines. Add in to this its lived outside its entire life. It's had new sills about 8years ago, but I think if you looked around it a bit more and poked it a bit, there's lots more welding that could be done.
Here are some pictures of it 3 years ago at our wedding, it made it 250yard to the village hall under it's own steam... just. Our main wedding car was (i believe) a Humber 9/20. I stand to be corrected on the model, that was kindly offered by a chap in the village.
The Palm green one stayed with Billy and his wife (Eileen) up to the late 90s, when it was sold. Billy died in the early 2000s and Eileen followed in 2015. Here's some pictures we believe was taken in the mid/late 90s. The car is still about somewhere as it is taxed and is on the club register, although the current owner is not known.
3537E was originally taken off the road because it overheated and needed some welding. The seats were removed and retrimmed and didn't go back in until last year. A new headlining has been fitted. New front cylinders were bought and fitted and the master cylinder was overhauled, meaning the brakes now work as well as they ever did (not very).
Now comes to the tricky bit. Within the next year or so when I have freed up a space in the garage it will be coming to live with us. This is a car that will not be sold.
I have a dilemma. My MIL is of the opinion that it needs to be 100% original and shouldn't be "messed about with". My argument is that it was originally designed for much smaller, slower roads with much less traffic.
Driving it with its 948cc 34bhp engine, small drums on the front and rod actuated rear brakes and vague steering is frankly dangerous in modern times. As such it won't be driven as much and wont be enjoyed and will likely continue to languish as it has done for years. Lets not forget that overheating and whining was one of the reasons why it was pulled from the road in the first place.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've started collecting parts to make it a much more usable classic car, with period choice upgrades. I already have a midget rear axle with hydraulic rear brakes, a 3.7 tall diff, and all the parts required to do a midget disc brake conversion at the front too. I now have the opportunity to buy a 1275 A-series and a matching ribbed gearbox. I'm also on the hunt for an A40 mk2 steering box as that's supposed to be about the best steering upgrade.
I could probably get away with the steering and brake mods as a matter of "critical safety", but with a 1275 engine I'd want to upgrade the radiator, lower the ride height and fit some ARBs. Which probably wouldn't go down too well and is a "visible" mod.
If the legacy is to continue, then the car should be enjoyed and turned into a proper family heirloom. Its never going to be worth a fortune.
My worry is that I don't want it turned into Triggers Broom, or upset my in-laws by making it a usable car in modern traffic.
What are the thoughts of the collective?!
My dad had an A35 (NFG194) in the sixties when I was a kid. After something disastrous happened to the original engine, he fitted a 1098cc 55hp van engine and a few other van parts from a smashed one. It was far superior to the standard 34hp car to drive but there were no visible differences.
Maybe worthwhile looking at some van spec items for inconspicuous improvements.
Sorry I don't have any details of what parts other than the engine he fitted, I was only about six at the time.
Maybe worthwhile looking at some van spec items for inconspicuous improvements.
Sorry I don't have any details of what parts other than the engine he fitted, I was only about six at the time.
Vanordinaire said:
My dad had an A35 (NFG194) in the sixties when I was a kid. After something disastrous happened to the original engine, he fitted a 1098cc 55hp van engine and a few other van parts from a smashed one. It was far superior to the standard 34hp car to drive but there were no visible differences.
Maybe worthwhile looking at some van spec items for inconspicuous improvements.
Sorry I don't have any details of what parts other than the engine he fitted, I was only about six at the time.
I believe these were the same spec as the 1098 Moggy Minors, possibly with the larger drums tooMaybe worthwhile looking at some van spec items for inconspicuous improvements.
Sorry I don't have any details of what parts other than the engine he fitted, I was only about six at the time.
To be fair, most of the mods I've suggested are not visible. Lowering is an option I could avoid, and then the only thing that would let you know any difference is if you lifted the bonnet. Even then, you'd really have to know your stuff to tell a 1275 A-series from a 948 A-series, especially if it was running a single carb instead of a twin.
Edited by Ambleton on Sunday 26th May 22:20
ClaphamGT3 said:
Sounds like your planning to ruin it frankly. A car with that provenance should be kept original
That's the dilemma!There's part of me that says restore lightly and conserve. Then there are other parts of me that say just make it safe with the larger moggy drum brakes and a refreshed steering box. But then if you're doing that then you may as well do it properly and fit some brakes that actually work well, and a period engine that makes it go!
Sounds like a good idea to me, not too silly modifications that are relatively period and car will remain standard looking but much more useable.
Not like its ever going to be a concourse museum piece so if it means the car will get used more often then go for it!
Nice looking little car the A35, always make me smile on the odd occasion I see one on the road.
Not like its ever going to be a concourse museum piece so if it means the car will get used more often then go for it!
Nice looking little car the A35, always make me smile on the odd occasion I see one on the road.
Keeping cars completely original is all very well if you aren't going to drive it. I don't see many pre-1960 classics on crossplies is but one example. I have gently uprated my E-type with electronic ignition and four pot calipers and if I was sensible I'd change from a 3.31 to a 3.07 rear axle too.
I am fully behind you in what you are doing. A family heirloom it may be, but I don't wear winklepickers and string ties nowadays and don't see why sensible upgrades to keep the car feasible in modern traffic should be frowned on. It leads to less frustration from other motorists and more pleasure to you driving it.
I am fully behind you in what you are doing. A family heirloom it may be, but I don't wear winklepickers and string ties nowadays and don't see why sensible upgrades to keep the car feasible in modern traffic should be frowned on. It leads to less frustration from other motorists and more pleasure to you driving it.
9xxNick said:
Ultimately, there's nothing irreversible about the planned upgrades and they all contribute to a car that will be capable of being used and enjoyed in greater safety than one without them.
I have no problem with the changes at all.
Exactly, it's not like I'm planning on cutting out the tunnel and bulkhead to fit a K-series and type9 box... I have no problem with the changes at all.
Ambleton said:
Driving it with its 948cc 34bhp engine, small drums on the front and rod actuated rear brakes and vague steering is frankly dangerous in modern times.
Rubbish.I've driven (and ridden) older stuff than an earlier A35 on modern without a problem, you just have to adapt and learn to drive them like the old cars they are.
Its you that needs to adapt and change, not changing the car because you can't learn to drive it.
Ambleton said:
Lets not forget that overheating and whining was one of the reasons why it was pulled from the road in the first place.
Fix it then.Ambleton said:
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I've started collecting parts to make it a much more usable classic car, with period choice upgrades. I already have a midget rear axle with hydraulic rear brakes, a 3.7 tall diff, and all the parts required to do a midget disc brake conversion at the front too. I now have the opportunity to buy a 1275 A-series and a matching ribbed gearbox. I'm also on the hunt for an A40 mk2 steering box as that's supposed to be about the best steering upgrade.
I could probably get away with the steering and brake mods as a matter of "critical safety", but with a 1275 engine I'd want to upgrade the radiator, lower the ride height and fit some ARBs. Which probably wouldn't go down too well and is a "visible" mod.
Having said all that, I don't have a problem with in-period mods to classics, hot-rod away I could probably get away with the steering and brake mods as a matter of "critical safety", but with a 1275 engine I'd want to upgrade the radiator, lower the ride height and fit some ARBs. Which probably wouldn't go down too well and is a "visible" mod.
However, I also wouldn't p
s off or upset the MIL either, and perhaps best to wait until she's shoved off before hot-rodding the little A?SilverHarrier said:
Sounds like a good idea to me, not too silly modifications that are relatively period and car will remain standard looking but much more useable.
Not like its ever going to be a concourse museum piece so if it means the car will get used more often then go for it!
Nice looking little car the A35, always make me smile on the odd occasion I see one on the road.
That's pretty much the thinking behind the changes I've made to my Riley One-Point-Five which, apart from replica Minities looks virtually the same as when it left the factory (OK, the colour isn't). The changes you can't easily spot: brake servo, unleaded head, alternator/negative earth, 1¾" exhaust, reclining seats just make it more reliable, safe and drivable. I see no point in owning a classic that you can't enjoy in the way you want to which for me means touring in it.Not like its ever going to be a concourse museum piece so if it means the car will get used more often then go for it!
Nice looking little car the A35, always make me smile on the odd occasion I see one on the road.
aeropilot said:
I've driven (and ridden) older stuff than an earlier A35 on modern without a problem, you just have to adapt and learn to drive them like the old cars they are.
Its you that needs to adapt and change, not changing the car because you can't learn to drive it.
Those of us whose old cars are pre-war will agree with that, and would say that the point of driving a car with an out-of-date (but state-of-the-art) specification is adapting oneself to what is there. Once you start to modify a car you get on a long, steep and slippery slope to a result that isn't as capable as a modern car but has lost its original character.Its you that needs to adapt and change, not changing the car because you can't learn to drive it.
I wouldn't claim my cars are totally original as (e.g.) the 1938 car has had to be fitted with symmetrical lamp operation (having had dip-and-switch headlamps) to be road legal. Happily the 1912 car is road legal with its original rear-only brakes but there's a new skill or two to learn when driving it! If I want to go faster or drive on the brakes I don't do it in the old'uns.
You'll never keep everyone happy, so do what you want!
I always think that a car would have been modified in period if it was used in motor sport, so it is fair game for modifying now.
I personally try to keep mods hidden, apart from lowered suspension and wheels, but have put stupid engines in to a number of different cars
I always think that a car would have been modified in period if it was used in motor sport, so it is fair game for modifying now.
I personally try to keep mods hidden, apart from lowered suspension and wheels, but have put stupid engines in to a number of different cars
Thanks for your input folks.
I've decided to keep on searching for the upgrade bits with a view to fitting them at sone point, but will be keeping all the original bits so it can be put back to standard if required.
I've gone ahead and bought the 1275 A+ engine and ribbed gearbox, I will be collecting this within the week.
I'll rebuild the engine myself at some point. I wont go crazy, but should think that 70-75bhp is easily achieved without too much hassle. I purchased a copy of the "how to tune an A series" bible.
The gearbox will be sent off and done properly.
The diff, rear brakes and hardened half shafts need pulling from the midget axle and building into an A30/35 axle at some point. Apparently this is easier than trying to fit the midget axle as the mount points, damper mounts etc are all different.
The midget front suspension/brake parts need rebuilding too, although new ones are so cheap that I may just replace the calipers etc.
Once I have all the bits I'll lay them out and see what we've got!
But first I need to finish building my other project!
I've decided to keep on searching for the upgrade bits with a view to fitting them at sone point, but will be keeping all the original bits so it can be put back to standard if required.
I've gone ahead and bought the 1275 A+ engine and ribbed gearbox, I will be collecting this within the week.
I'll rebuild the engine myself at some point. I wont go crazy, but should think that 70-75bhp is easily achieved without too much hassle. I purchased a copy of the "how to tune an A series" bible.
The gearbox will be sent off and done properly.
The diff, rear brakes and hardened half shafts need pulling from the midget axle and building into an A30/35 axle at some point. Apparently this is easier than trying to fit the midget axle as the mount points, damper mounts etc are all different.
The midget front suspension/brake parts need rebuilding too, although new ones are so cheap that I may just replace the calipers etc.
Once I have all the bits I'll lay them out and see what we've got!
But first I need to finish building my other project!
Ambleton, You don't have to upgrade the radiator for a 1275.
All you need is a good original rad, perhaps get a refurbed one through the A35 club? Cheap and reliable and more than up to the job of a 1275.
I had the pleasure of going as a passenger in TMT (The 1275 Turbo A35) and that was running the standard rad and never had an overheating issue.
With regards to brakes, they are actually OK if you have decent brake shoes and have adjusted them correctly. 8inch drum upgrades are easier to hide than the disc conversion. If the rest of the suspension is in good order, it'll be much cheaper to achieve and almost as good. However, the Morris Minor ones are not a straight replacement. A40 ones are.
The same man who built TMT was making a limited amount of 8inch drum conversions that used the Morris Minor parts but fit the A35 (Replacement MM parts are much cheaper and easier to source than the A40 stuff)
With regards to the 34hp. Keep in mind you're probably running about 20hp right now as the Zenith Carb will be knackered and the head will be coked up. A simple decoke can work wonder and swapping to a good carb makes the engine run better too. I decoked my original head and it was night and day different.
So could be a good short term solution as the head should only take a few hours in the workshop and the carb in minutes to swap once you have the right bits.. (Don't go too crazy though as you can rapidly get to the cost of a 1275 tuning a 948 and still only have 50hp to show for it, depends how much the matching numbers mean to you).
All you need is a good original rad, perhaps get a refurbed one through the A35 club? Cheap and reliable and more than up to the job of a 1275.
I had the pleasure of going as a passenger in TMT (The 1275 Turbo A35) and that was running the standard rad and never had an overheating issue.
With regards to brakes, they are actually OK if you have decent brake shoes and have adjusted them correctly. 8inch drum upgrades are easier to hide than the disc conversion. If the rest of the suspension is in good order, it'll be much cheaper to achieve and almost as good. However, the Morris Minor ones are not a straight replacement. A40 ones are.
The same man who built TMT was making a limited amount of 8inch drum conversions that used the Morris Minor parts but fit the A35 (Replacement MM parts are much cheaper and easier to source than the A40 stuff)
With regards to the 34hp. Keep in mind you're probably running about 20hp right now as the Zenith Carb will be knackered and the head will be coked up. A simple decoke can work wonder and swapping to a good carb makes the engine run better too. I decoked my original head and it was night and day different.
So could be a good short term solution as the head should only take a few hours in the workshop and the carb in minutes to swap once you have the right bits.. (Don't go too crazy though as you can rapidly get to the cost of a 1275 tuning a 948 and still only have 50hp to show for it, depends how much the matching numbers mean to you).
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