How to ride on the road
Discussion
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2018/september...
Interesting article. Very similar to what my bike instructor taught me (ex police - used to train bike riders in the force).
I particularly like the last part because that is where I have problems:
"I’ve gone into a corner and thought, 'Hang on a minute, I’ve got two choices here: either go straight on or stay with it and lean the bike over more.' The bike’s going to be there with me or it’s not, but I’m going to go down anyway so I might as well lean it over and pray it stays under me."
He is totally right about the track day benefits:
"I don’t want to get shot for it and I might have said it before, but it's absolutely essential because track riding shows what incredible things your bike is capable of. It shows you how much grip you’ve got and how much lean angle you can achieve – that if you get into a bit of bother with a tractor, you can grab that brake really hard. On the road it’s impossible to safely discover how good your bike can be, which is why the Government should pay for everyone to have track time before they ride on the road.”
Last Sunday, for example, I was out riding my 954 on the hill and suddenly was overcome by paralyzing fear of leaning in downhill hairpins, I had the feeling that I am about to lose the front, it was utter disaster and embarrassing, I was making beginner mistakes, I rode home right away.
The problem is that I have nowhere to rebuild my confidence in tires and to practice the full lean etc.
I KNOW the bike can do much more, but I can't abstractly convince myself of that, I need to practice and I have nowhere to do it.
On the roads it is too dangerous, any fall could be lethal or paralyzing, and the big parking spots are covered in white lines marking out spots, I am not sure the bike would not slide out on one of these even when dry.
I wish there was a race track nearby.
"I’ve gone into a corner and thought, 'Hang on a minute, I’ve got two choices here: either go straight on or stay with it and lean the bike over more.' The bike’s going to be there with me or it’s not, but I’m going to go down anyway so I might as well lean it over and pray it stays under me."
He is totally right about the track day benefits:
"I don’t want to get shot for it and I might have said it before, but it's absolutely essential because track riding shows what incredible things your bike is capable of. It shows you how much grip you’ve got and how much lean angle you can achieve – that if you get into a bit of bother with a tractor, you can grab that brake really hard. On the road it’s impossible to safely discover how good your bike can be, which is why the Government should pay for everyone to have track time before they ride on the road.”
Last Sunday, for example, I was out riding my 954 on the hill and suddenly was overcome by paralyzing fear of leaning in downhill hairpins, I had the feeling that I am about to lose the front, it was utter disaster and embarrassing, I was making beginner mistakes, I rode home right away.
The problem is that I have nowhere to rebuild my confidence in tires and to practice the full lean etc.
I KNOW the bike can do much more, but I can't abstractly convince myself of that, I need to practice and I have nowhere to do it.
On the roads it is too dangerous, any fall could be lethal or paralyzing, and the big parking spots are covered in white lines marking out spots, I am not sure the bike would not slide out on one of these even when dry.
I wish there was a race track nearby.
Ho Lee Kau said:
Last Sunday, for example, I was out riding my 954 on the hill and suddenly was overcome by paralyzing fear of leaning in downhill hairpins, I had the feeling that I am about to lose the front, it was utter disaster and embarrassing, I was making beginner mistakes, I rode home right away.
The problem is that I have nowhere to rebuild my confidence in tires and to practice the full lean etc.
I KNOW the bike can do much more, but I can't abstractly convince myself of that, I need to practice and I have nowhere to do it.
On the roads it is too dangerous, any fall could be lethal or paralyzing, and the big parking spots are covered in white lines marking out spots, I am not sure the bike would not slide out on one of these even when dry.
I wish there was a race track nearby.
Sounds like you need to relax. Where are you looking? Look down the road to where you want to be, grip with your thighs and loosen the arms. Keep practicing and it'll get more natural.The problem is that I have nowhere to rebuild my confidence in tires and to practice the full lean etc.
I KNOW the bike can do much more, but I can't abstractly convince myself of that, I need to practice and I have nowhere to do it.
On the roads it is too dangerous, any fall could be lethal or paralyzing, and the big parking spots are covered in white lines marking out spots, I am not sure the bike would not slide out on one of these even when dry.
I wish there was a race track nearby.
dern said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
Last Sunday, for example, I was out riding my 954 on the hill and suddenly was overcome by paralyzing fear of leaning in downhill hairpins, I had the feeling that I am about to lose the front, it was utter disaster and embarrassing, I was making beginner mistakes, I rode home right away.
The problem is that I have nowhere to rebuild my confidence in tires and to practice the full lean etc.
I KNOW the bike can do much more, but I can't abstractly convince myself of that, I need to practice and I have nowhere to do it.
On the roads it is too dangerous, any fall could be lethal or paralyzing, and the big parking spots are covered in white lines marking out spots, I am not sure the bike would not slide out on one of these even when dry.
I wish there was a race track nearby.
Sounds like you need to relax. Where are you looking? Look down the road to where you want to be, grip with your thighs and loosen the arms. Keep practicing and it'll get more natural.The problem is that I have nowhere to rebuild my confidence in tires and to practice the full lean etc.
I KNOW the bike can do much more, but I can't abstractly convince myself of that, I need to practice and I have nowhere to do it.
On the roads it is too dangerous, any fall could be lethal or paralyzing, and the big parking spots are covered in white lines marking out spots, I am not sure the bike would not slide out on one of these even when dry.
I wish there was a race track nearby.
king embarrassing. I am pretty average rider, done 60-70k miles on a bike in all conditions, went on track a few times, but I feel this year I am regressing in my skills. I had this spot where I could practice full lean and knee down in a "controlled" environment before going on the roads (it was a round turn spot for trucks outside of grocery store) but now they "fixed" the cracks on the asphalt by putting loads of soft black substance in them, it is very slippery now. That place was very helpful for building confidence for road riding.When I got The Fear last Sunday I started riding like I was first time on the bike, looking the wrong way, clinging to the handles, almost grabbing the brakes. Total disaster. This is 180 degree pretty steep downhill turns, these are my Achilles heel.
It is my trust in the front tire, will it hold? I am surprised that such a small patch can keep the bike on the road and not sliding out, especially going downhill, 300kg all on the front tire, it is amazing!
Ho Lee Kau said:
It is fking embarrassing. I am pretty average rider, done 60-70k miles on a bike in all conditions, went on track a few times, but I feel this year I am regressing in my skills. I had this spot where I could practice full lean and knee down in a "controlled" environment before going on the roads (it was a round turn spot for trucks outside of grocery store) but now they "fixed" the cracks on the asphalt by putting loads of soft black substance in them, it is very slippery now. That place was very helpful for building confidence for road riding.
When I got The Fear last Sunday I started riding like I was first time on the bike, looking the wrong way, clinging to the handles, almost grabbing the brakes. Total disaster. This is 180 degree pretty steep downhill turns, these are my Achilles heel.
It is my trust in the front tire, will it hold? I am surprised that such a small patch can keep the bike on the road and not sliding out, especially going downhill, 300kg all on the front tire, it is amazing!
I completely sympathise. I've never been a natural or brave rider and go through these spells on occasions. All I can suggest it to go back to the theory, remember where to look, how to connect with the bike and get some more miles in focussing on that and ignoring speed and it'll all come back. If you can get some refresher training so much the better. My riding came on leaps and bounds when I started with the IAM, if you have anything like that where you are it helps.king embarrassing. I am pretty average rider, done 60-70k miles on a bike in all conditions, went on track a few times, but I feel this year I am regressing in my skills. I had this spot where I could practice full lean and knee down in a "controlled" environment before going on the roads (it was a round turn spot for trucks outside of grocery store) but now they "fixed" the cracks on the asphalt by putting loads of soft black substance in them, it is very slippery now. That place was very helpful for building confidence for road riding.When I got The Fear last Sunday I started riding like I was first time on the bike, looking the wrong way, clinging to the handles, almost grabbing the brakes. Total disaster. This is 180 degree pretty steep downhill turns, these are my Achilles heel.
It is my trust in the front tire, will it hold? I am surprised that such a small patch can keep the bike on the road and not sliding out, especially going downhill, 300kg all on the front tire, it is amazing!
And yes, your front tyre will hold
Ho Lee Kau said:
It is fking embarrassing. I am pretty average rider, done 60-70k miles on a bike in all conditions, went on track a few times, but I feel this year I am regressing in my skills. I had this spot where I could practice full lean and knee down in a "controlled" environment before going on the roads (it was a round turn spot for trucks outside of grocery store) but now they "fixed" the cracks on the asphalt by putting loads of soft black substance in them, it is very slippery now. That place was very helpful for building confidence for road riding.
When I got The Fear last Sunday I started riding like I was first time on the bike, looking the wrong way, clinging to the handles, almost grabbing the brakes. Total disaster. This is 180 degree pretty steep downhill turns, these are my Achilles heel.
It is my trust in the front tire, will it hold? I am surprised that such a small patch can keep the bike on the road and not sliding out, especially going downhill, 300kg all on the front tire, it is amazing!
To some extent, the more weight on the tyre, the more traction it has. As above, try to relax. Work on your observations and lines at your own speed. The minute you are tense and anxious, you are going too fast and will make mistakes. Your hands should be just resting on the bars. No death grip! king embarrassing. I am pretty average rider, done 60-70k miles on a bike in all conditions, went on track a few times, but I feel this year I am regressing in my skills. I had this spot where I could practice full lean and knee down in a "controlled" environment before going on the roads (it was a round turn spot for trucks outside of grocery store) but now they "fixed" the cracks on the asphalt by putting loads of soft black substance in them, it is very slippery now. That place was very helpful for building confidence for road riding.When I got The Fear last Sunday I started riding like I was first time on the bike, looking the wrong way, clinging to the handles, almost grabbing the brakes. Total disaster. This is 180 degree pretty steep downhill turns, these are my Achilles heel.
It is my trust in the front tire, will it hold? I am surprised that such a small patch can keep the bike on the road and not sliding out, especially going downhill, 300kg all on the front tire, it is amazing!
As per the video, always manage your speed to be able to stop in the distance that you can see. Which means when there is good visibility, take advantage of it.
The question of what to do when you over-cook it into a corner is a common one that new riders ask. Firstly avoid this situation at all costs. You cannot just wrench the steering wheel round and hope for the best, like in a car. It shouldn't be happening.
If it does and everyone makes a mistake, gently come off the brakes, put your weight on the inside of the bike and lean it over. Almost always, it'll go round. It's all well and good saying this, but doing it in practice is another thing.
Track experience and general bike control can help here, as you should be more aware of just how much grip there is, provided the bike is kept balanced.
People were good, confident, fast and safe road riders LONG before track days became "a thing". Track days are useful but they only short cut what you can still learn safely on the road if you choose your time and place with appropriate consideration.
I learnt the limits of my brakes by finding a quiet bit of road with a decent surface and lots of visibility and trying them - hard. I learned cornering limits by again, finding an appropriate bit of quiet road and trying. I still do this when I get a new bike, to find out what it can do compared to previous bikes and, more importantly, my expectations/understanding.
Learning how to get close(ish) to the limits is about understanding what "doing it properly" is then practicing that, while being an honest and open critic of your own performance. A track day allows you to condense this process and focus on it without the usual road worries of traffic, enforcement etc., but it's not the only way to do it.
I learnt the limits of my brakes by finding a quiet bit of road with a decent surface and lots of visibility and trying them - hard. I learned cornering limits by again, finding an appropriate bit of quiet road and trying. I still do this when I get a new bike, to find out what it can do compared to previous bikes and, more importantly, my expectations/understanding.
Learning how to get close(ish) to the limits is about understanding what "doing it properly" is then practicing that, while being an honest and open critic of your own performance. A track day allows you to condense this process and focus on it without the usual road worries of traffic, enforcement etc., but it's not the only way to do it.
My instructor was a really good road rider but had never been on track (until he was quite old) so not sure you really need to do track days.
Like Black K1 when I first started riding I found a quiet straight road in an industrial estate. Used to go there at weekends to practice braking hard. Found a quiet roundabout to practice getting the bike over (well actually I was trying to get my knee down!)
However I think key thing to practice is your observation skills. If you are riding properly you shouldn’t find yourself going too fast for any corner you enter. Just keep in mind that most bikes have amazing acceleration so going in a bit
slower but getting on the throttle earlier when you see the exit to the corner is clear will anyway be a quicker approach on the road rather than chucking it in too fast, leaning it over and praying you don’t drop it before wobbling out the other side of the bend with your confidence shot.
Like Black K1 when I first started riding I found a quiet straight road in an industrial estate. Used to go there at weekends to practice braking hard. Found a quiet roundabout to practice getting the bike over (well actually I was trying to get my knee down!)
However I think key thing to practice is your observation skills. If you are riding properly you shouldn’t find yourself going too fast for any corner you enter. Just keep in mind that most bikes have amazing acceleration so going in a bit
slower but getting on the throttle earlier when you see the exit to the corner is clear will anyway be a quicker approach on the road rather than chucking it in too fast, leaning it over and praying you don’t drop it before wobbling out the other side of the bend with your confidence shot.
CousinDupree said:
To some extent, the more weight on the tyre, the more traction it has. As above, try to relax. Work on your observations and lines at your own speed. The minute you are tense and anxious, you are going too fast and will make mistakes. Your hands should be just resting on the bars. No death grip!
As per the video, always manage your speed to be able to stop in the distance that you can see. Which means when there is good visibility, take advantage of it.
The question of what to do when you over-cook it into a corner is a common one that new riders ask. Firstly avoid this situation at all costs. You cannot just wrench the steering wheel round and hope for the best, like in a car. It shouldn't be happening.
If it does and everyone makes a mistake, gently come off the brakes, put your weight on the inside of the bike and lean it over. Almost always, it'll go round. It's all well and good saying this, but doing it in practice is another thing.
Track experience and general bike control can help here, as you should be more aware of just how much grip there is, provided the bike is kept balanced.
I have the theory down pretty well, read the books, took the courses, watched the videos...nothing compares to practical experience though.As per the video, always manage your speed to be able to stop in the distance that you can see. Which means when there is good visibility, take advantage of it.
The question of what to do when you over-cook it into a corner is a common one that new riders ask. Firstly avoid this situation at all costs. You cannot just wrench the steering wheel round and hope for the best, like in a car. It shouldn't be happening.
If it does and everyone makes a mistake, gently come off the brakes, put your weight on the inside of the bike and lean it over. Almost always, it'll go round. It's all well and good saying this, but doing it in practice is another thing.
Track experience and general bike control can help here, as you should be more aware of just how much grip there is, provided the bike is kept balanced.
I practice a lot, so I hope this was a fluke. I just need to get back on the bike and go on the hills, which I will do tomorrow.
I am also pretty good at managing speed, in fact, that could be one of my problems, I am too good, I brake too much and go into the corners too slow.
Anyway, thank you all for the support, I appreciate it!
black-k1 said:
I learnt the limits of my brakes by finding a quiet bit of road with a decent surface and lots of visibility and trying them - hard. I learned cornering limits by again, finding an appropriate bit of quiet road and trying. I still do this when I get a new bike, to find out what it can do compared to previous bikes and, more importantly, my expectations/understanding.
I do this as well. Braking is easy to practice. I do figure 8 as well quite often. Leaning and knee down - more difficult on our public roads, John McG is absolutely right about that, the hilly roads where I am at are pretty narrow and quite dangerous with drops, trees, curbs and guard rails (with open bottom parts at places, though some were fixed after a few crashes and lethal outcomes).
Ho Lee Kau said:
I am also pretty good at managing speed, in fact, that could be one of my problems, I am too good, I brake too much and go into the corners too slow.
I'm much more of a noob than you, but I catch myself doing this - on a corner I'm not sure about I over-apply the brake, then I'm going so slowly it distracts me, and struggle to judge how much to tip in, and have no confidence that it'll stick.For me it's all about flow, if I get myself worked up about it I lose the rhythm of what I'm doing and it ends up being dreadful.
Once or twice I've done the same as you - something has upset me and I've lost confidence completely, and just ridden home (slowly) in a grump.
Esceptico said:
... Found a quiet roundabout to practice getting the bike over (well actually I was trying to get my knee down!) ...
We have a few roundabouts in the area...they are not asphalt but concrete plates. I rather not practice knee down on these. :-) It is really quite hard to find a spot here, to be honest. Small country, little space, I suppose. It is either concrete plates, or it is a big parking spot with white markings, industrial grounds are closed off and inaccessible. The only one I found was that turn spot for trucks, it was also closed off on weekends but I managed to sneak in on regular basis, now they "fixed" the surface with that black slippery stuff and made it "useless" for my purpose.
Actually, they fixed the cracks in the asphalt on the local hills in the same manner a couple of years ago. Damn how slippery it became! After about 20 bikers crashed, there was a petition and the road had to be re-asphalted completely.
Also, I do not know what asphalt you have in UK, maybe it is quite rough and grainy, more like track, the asphalt they put here is very smooth. Nice to drive in a car, very silent, but I am not sure about the traction for the bikes. Though I know it should hold because the acquaintance of mine on MV F1000 goes around all these small radii corners, up and down, not knee but almost elbow down, pleasure to watch.
Krikkit said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
I am also pretty good at managing speed, in fact, that could be one of my problems, I am too good, I brake too much and go into the corners too slow.
I'm much more of a noob than you, but I catch myself doing this - on a corner I'm not sure about I over-apply the brake, then I'm going so slowly it distracts me, and struggle to judge how much to tip in, and have no confidence that it'll stick.For me it's all about flow, if I get myself worked up about it I lose the rhythm of what I'm doing and it ends up being dreadful.
Once or twice I've done the same as you - something has upset me and I've lost confidence completely, and just ridden home (slowly) in a grump.
Krikkit said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
I am also pretty good at managing speed, in fact, that could be one of my problems, I am too good, I brake too much and go into the corners too slow.
I'm much more of a noob than you, but I catch myself doing this - on a corner I'm not sure about I over-apply the brake, then I'm going so slowly it distracts me, and struggle to judge how much to tip in, and have no confidence that it'll stick.For me it's all about flow, if I get myself worked up about it I lose the rhythm of what I'm doing and it ends up being dreadful.
Once or twice I've done the same as you - something has upset me and I've lost confidence completely, and just ridden home (slowly) in a grump.
It could be I was also preoccupied with my tax declaration which I had to fill in for deadline on Monday. :-)
True, when the flow is there it is such a rush, wow, the best feeling in the world. :-)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It does!I practice to brake early and then roll through the corner a bit and go on gas to stabilize...but sometimes I brake downhill, do not release the brake lever in time and then already in the corner I keep on trail braking a little instead of releasing, it is like my hand is disconnected from my brain, some sort of fear sets in, and this messes up the whole body position / leaning aspect.
Biker's Nemesis said:
All of you that practice on a "quiet" bit of road do you do it with tyres that a warmed up? Or do you go straight to maximum brake pressure with cold tyres?
I never started with maximum brake pressure, irrespective of the tyres. Of course, back then there was no ABS for bikes so locking up the front was uppermost in my mind and grabbing a handful wasn't something you would normally want to do. I assume with ABS you could brake as hard as possible and if the tyres were cold then you would simply take longer to stop. Biker's Nemesis said:
All of you that practice on a "quiet" bit of road do you do it with tyres that a warmed up? Or do you go straight to maximum brake pressure with cold tyres?
I practice running down the hill on the way out sometimes on cold tyres but for full on practice I find a quieter bit and the tyres are warm by the time I get there.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff